Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

To play the Devil's Advocate, going to Russia for any reason at the moment as a yank would likely land you in several alphabet agency watchlists.
Yeah, that's the biggest issue.

Travel to Russia (or any overseas travel for that matter) is many, many years off for me and it's probably best to wait until significant time has passed for the current tensions to cool down. Assuming of course the world doesn't get lit up between now and then.
The similarities between the US and late stage USSR are growing ever more prominent.
We've even got the "ruled by a dementia-addled fossil with obviously failing health" part.
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Ukraine's pre-invasion equipment stocks have been depleted. The donated NATO equipment has been depleted
Even the ukopium stocks have been depleted. (((nafoid))) media has fallen into a grim silence. Large stock of (((nato))) supplied military gear seem to have fallen into Russian hands with the fall of Adveeka.
 
I look forward to all the chickenshithawks and NAFO tards to now declare that this guy - a fucking ex-chairman of a NATO committee - is a Russian agent, just like they've declared people like Ray McGovern and even fucking Henry Kissinger to be Russian agents working for Putin simply because they didn't like the idea of Cold War 2.0.

Anyway, a little late but crossposting from the LazerPig thread (original credit to @Hillary Clinton's Ass ), the Croatian Tank Autist made a video about the destroyed Abrams.

To which LazerFag and company seethed about how it was "premature" to talk about a very obviously destroyed tank.
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Also, some of the comments on Red Effect's video are great:
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I'm shocked at how shocked these niggers are. About 400 of these damn things have been killed by literal goat fuckers in Yemen and they're shocked that an Abrams tank which is from the 80s (or 70s depending on where you draw the line) can be taken out by a modern piece of AT equipment from Russia. The same country that originally designed the equipment the Houthis are using, and that obviously have the more modern version of said equipment.
 
I'm shocked at how shocked these niggers are. About 400 of these damn things have been killed by literal goat fuckers in Yemen and they're shocked that an Abrams tank which is from the 80s (or 70s depending on where you draw the line) can be taken out by a modern piece of AT equipment from Russia. The same country that originally designed the equipment the Houthis are using, and that obviously have the more modern version of said equipment.
They should put all the abrams back in the garage. They work much better there as a mythical wunderwaffen "just wait until we roll out the abrams then it will be game over for Putin" than in the actual field.

So, how many have they showed on the battlefield yet? Is it two? One that got immediately blown up and the other put in reverse and ran away? Have they been used anywhere else?
 
It looks to me like the blowout panels successfully redirected the ammunition ignition, so its probably actually quite fixable. Its a bit of an odd one to me, it obviously isn't a catastrophic kill but to my understanding it was probably captured, which is clearly worse?
I doubt Ukraine has the facilities, parts or the time to fix the Abrams even if they wanted to.
 
I'm just going to interject that today's the 3rd March which, although a controversial date in Bulgaria, marks if not the actual achieved, then the beginning of, liberation of Bulgaria. This could only be possible at that time thanks to the Russian empire's efforts.

It is now often propagated by pro-Western shills that the Russian army was almost entirely composed of Ukrainians. A fact they back up by saying that the Russian army was composed (mostly) from conscripts from oblasts of today's territory of Ukraine, who were majority Ukrainian. It is now common to mention the Finnish volunteers, a thousand men who participated in their state's war, since the territory of Finland was a part of Russia back then. Therefore, we must not give exceptional acknowledgement or praise to the Russians, because they weren't the only ones fighting for the cause of Bulgaria. Because, clearly, the ones who fought the most must not have been Russians. Then I want to ask this question:

When Dostoevsky wrote of the ire the soldiers of the empire felt when they saw that Bulgarians, under yoke of a muslim imperium, lived comparatively better than they did, of recently, as free men, those soldiers who hated the Bulgarians for being relatively richer than them, who had gardens of their own, who had large houses that were not just simple zemlyanki, who were well fed, who, in their eyes, toiled for their own soil, I'm asking you, were they Russians or Ukrainians?

I'm not going to disprove the claim that Ukrainians made up the majority or whatever, I think it's rather pointless. Because there was no Ukrainian nation-state that took up arms for someone else. Instead the Ukrainians took part in an Orthodox-Islamic war in which ultimately they fought under Russian commanders, under the flag of the Russian Empire, their state.

Whatever a Bulgarian thinks about 3rd March, and I think many are right to have disdain for this date, because the large state that encompassed almost the totality of the Bulgarian race was destroyed not long after the signing of the San Stefano treaty, the truth is that the initial steps for the foundation of a new Bulgarian state were actualised thanks to the Russian empire and Romania, and partly Serbia, because they took advantage of the Russo-Ottoman conflict in 1877-1878. Ukraine, Finland, whatever, were non-entities.

Russia may not have been our friend soon after, but it was our friend during the actual war.

The same pro-Western shills love the Anglo-Sphere, which during the war was more concerned with the casualties of the muslims, civilian or military, than to care about Bulgaria, a former Christian state that was at the heart of Slavic Orthodoxy.

I hate my people.
 
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I'm not going to disprove the claim that Ukrainians made up the majority or whatever, I think it's rather pointless. Because there was no Ukrainian nation-state that took up arms for someone else. Instead the Ukrainians took part in an Orthodox-Islamic war in which ultimately they fought under Russian commanders, under the flag of the Russian Empire, their state.
Ukrainians as a concept didn't even exist at that point. Cossacks were kind of their own little culture/"nation" at that point but there was no "Ukrainian" identity. More likely they would identify themselves as people from a specific region / township. Odessites, Kievites, etc.

Saying Ukrainians were the ones who won that war is like saying "east coasters" were the ones who won the war against the Japanese in the Pacific because they were (hypothetically) the most represented region of the draft or volunteership, and therefore "The East Coast" is responsible for avenging Pearl Harbor or whatever.
 
Even in America it's a bit of a speciality vehicle to fix, yeah? I sincerely doubt you can just roll into any army base and fix it on the go.
As far as I know it's not all that horribly maintenance heavy, but more than it really should be since its loading system is Tyrone, and it's computing system is literally windows XP, and no I'm not memeing on either count. The biggest logistic problem comes from how much of a gas guzzler it is. It burns about double the amount of fuel a leopard 2 does at the same speed, and burns at a high rate even at idle which in this war is what a lot of tanks are spending most of their time doing. NAFO simps will bring up the chanel number 5 meme, but forget that 1, while it can run on basically anything, it still requires a fuck ton of basically anything, and 2, tanks with more practical diesel engines can do the exact same thing without needing a massive supply chain.

Edit:
If you were to compare it with a modernized t-90, it doesn't have explosive reactive armor (at least no package that can be practically applied to it), it doesn't have an auto loader, it has a slightly smaller main gun, it has an inferior ground pressure ratio which gives it worse cross country performance, it needs to be refueled far more often, it's larger than a t-90 which makes it an easier target, and probably the biggest deficiency compared to a T-90 in this war is the lack of top protection.

There's really only a few places on top of a t-90m that you can hit which will ensure a kill. Most of the top section of a t-90m is protected by explosive reactive armor and the tank is already tiny compared to an abrams. Conversely an Abrams was designed with absolute zero consideration for top attacks so it has numerous large flat surfaces that are very thinly protected by armor and it's not impossible that it could even be taken out by an anti-personnel "grenade dropper" drone with some luck on the drone operators part.
 
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I'm shocked at how shocked these niggers are. About 400 of these damn things have been killed by literal goat fuckers in Yemen and they're shocked that an Abrams tank which is from the 80s (or 70s depending on where you draw the line) can be taken out by a modern piece of AT equipment from Russia. The same country that originally designed the equipment the Houthis are using, and that obviously have the more modern version of said equipment.

Its a great tank, but in the end its just a tank. The USA has a bad case of DesertStormitis, and looked at the success of the Abrams against Iraqs monkey models and chinese built t55 knockoffs and thought Russia was just going to be a bigger version of Iraq.

On an individual level I'd much sooner be in an abrams that a modernised t-72. But on an operational level, the western tanks are no better than the russia tanks, and given logistical situation and how tanks are being used in this war they are worse for Ukraine. The Americans would have been much better off giving them m60's, but western armies dont stockpile thier old tanks and now we see the consequences of JIT being applied to military logistics.
 
The blockade of the border between Ukraine and Poland is still going on. At this point the blockade must be causing a lot of problems down the line.
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Lol why are truckers so based in damn near any country you go to?
Its a great tank, but in the end its just a tank. The USA has a bad case of DesertStormitis, and looked at the success of the Abrams against Iraqs monkey models and chinese built t55 knockoffs and thought Russia was just going to be a bigger version of Iraq.

On an individual level I'd much sooner be in an abrams that a modernised t-72. But on an operational level, the western tanks are no better than the russia tanks, and given logistical situation and how tanks are being used in this war they are worse for Ukraine. The Americans would have been much better off giving them m60's, but western armies dont stockpile thier old tanks and now we see the consequences of JIT being applied to military logistics.
That's pretty much my take on the Abrams. It's absolutely better than something like a modernized t-72, but it absolutely doesn't hold up against truly modern MBTs.

An incredible tank for its era but it's well past its expiration date. Other armies keep old MBTs around, but they keep them around to support their modern MBTs. They don't just keep them around and expect them to fight head to head with other countries' modern MBTs.
 
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Strolled through the comments of a tear-jerking article in WaPo about Alabama rednecks flipping a Ukrainian fundraiser. At this point I am pretty sure they are assembling these NPCs in a factory somewhere out in the boonies and shipping them to the major population centers, Stepford Wives-style.

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(Archive) I guess. Not that the article was interesting aside from being an example of the slimiest emotional blackmail you have read this week.
 
Russia may not have been our friend soon after, but it was our friend during the actual war.
Russia was a supporter of Bulgarian independence as a way of putting a foot in the face of the Ottoman empire. It's a pity that Bulgaria decided to have a hissyfit over a map put in place for three months by attacking their former allies in Serbia and Greece, leading the Romanians to walk up to Sofia and force surrender, while the Russians shook their head and walked away.
To this very day Bulgaria has sand in it's vag over land that never really belonged to it other than the short time they joined the losing sides of the two world wars.
Bulgaria is a beautiful country, with plenty of potential. The problem is it's filled with Bulgarians. Imagine getting so butthurt over Macedonia...
Oh yea, and they sold their largest electricty company to Russian interests which was fun, and Lukoil has a deathgrip on the political parties there.
 
Such as?

Tank kills aren't made by other tanks these days. Drones, laser guided munitions and ATGMs are the anti-tank meta, it's pointless trying to build new tanks to fight tanks.
Conversely an Abrams was designed with absolute zero consideration for top attacks so it has numerous large flat surfaces that are very thinly protected by armor and it's not impossible that it could even be taken out by an anti-personnel "grenade dropper" drone with some luck on the drone operators part.
I mean that covered a big chunk of what you mentioned, but that also applies to ATGMs. The Abrams really wasn't designed with such weapons in mind which is why it has basically zero protection against any high angle attack.

Edit:
As far as "tank to tank" goes, yes, you can stack up one tank against another regardless of whether modern combat allows said tanks to go head to head or not.

I don't need to put two chefs into the thunderdome to determine that one chef can make a better omelette than the other.
 
Russia was a supporter of Bulgarian independence as a way of putting a foot in the face of the Ottoman empire. It's a pity that Bulgaria decided to have a hissyfit over a map put in place for three months by attacking their former allies in Serbia and Greece, leading the Romanians to walk up to Sofia and force surrender, while the Russians shook their head and walked away.
To this very day Bulgaria has sand in it's vag over land that never really belonged to it other than the short time they joined the losing sides of the two world wars.
Bulgaria is a beautiful country, with plenty of potential. The problem is it's filled with Bulgarians. Imagine getting so butthurt over Macedonia...
Oh yea, and they sold their largest electricty company to Russian interests which was fun, and Lukoil has a deathgrip on the political parties there.

Every nation fights for its land, ownership can be real or perceived. It doesn't matter. Russia thought it could use Bulgaria as an ally by barricading its ascent, and the West thought Bulgaria would automatically side with Russia. Both were wrong. Anyway, we don't have to continue this here, I just wanted to have an interjection, because it's a special day for Bulgaria.
 
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