Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[bread n circuses]

€1.5 billion would be enough to buy them one (1 x) Barracuda class submarine.
View attachment 5786307
Idk if you could even build a single new factory in Western Europe for that money. It's not enough to pay for a new power station, and because it's Europe we're talking about, they're not building power stations anyway. They're doing stupid stuff instead, such as building offshore wind farms.

Good luck powering your energy intensive high tech defense factories with windmills.

At this rate, it would be cheaper and quicker for Europe to just surrender to Russia and politely ask Vlad to turn Nord Stream back on.

1.5 trillion wouldn't be enough for Europe to have a military that can compete with the US, China, or Russia. The amount of institutional knowledge/history required to build a functioning military-industrial complex is unthinkably vast. Europeans should just give up and accept that they've become the bitch of greater powers. Macron's larping about an independent Europe is embarassing.

 

[Doctor Professor Timon]

Incorrect, the factory is back up and running after a roughly two year hiatus due to an explosion.

https://www.volza.com/p/gunpowder/import/import-in-united-states/

https://ammodepotnh.com/product/goex-ffg-black-powder/

^ Company that produces it. 21.99 a pound

Now, I had to do some looking around through various vendors - I seriously cannot stress how I had to look through 15 different sites to find out the following:
1. We import most of our gunpowder from: Hong Kong, India, and the UK strangely enough.
Their price per pound of Gunpowder - 16.79.

Most companies aren't buying GOEX's.

The factory that blew is back up and running any there might be a second factory planned.

I looked this up in your own article. I've even been to their website. They do -not- have plans to build a second factory.

Secondly, your own article shot you in the foot.

"Yarhar, actually, it's back."

So, I looked up when it started in your own article. June 1st, 2023 is when it started back up. It is currently March 2024. The plant would not have even made its money back, yet. Another accident could end the company. That's how fragile of a position things are in. So, yes, we have a domestic gunpowder producer back, but... look how precarious it is right now.

 

[Fapcop]

Going to jail for refusing to fight sounds like a better choice than getting blown up.

That’s why they’re not afraid of lying to them.

“Don’t worry Mykola! We know you’re too old for frontline service. You have mechanic experience, we need good mechanics in Kharkov… Yiull be fixing trucks far from the front, don’t worry!”

By the time they’re let off the truck, and told to walk two kilometers to relieve someone in a trench, it’s waaay too late.

 

[Cuckoman]

Here is my completely made up speculative theory of what could have happened that led up to Nylund's very sudden resigning/firing/fall

1, Gen-Z is suddenly fired. This comes out of the blue to the US and shocks the administation
2, Nylund extremely urgently goes to Ukraine to try to fix things, it didn't work, no one listened to her.
3, Nylund and the administration tries to pressure Ukraine by stopping intelligence sharing. a.k.a Bring Z-gen back and the intelligence spigot is turned back on.
4, This backfires catastrophically since without real-time intelligence on russian assets and positions the Ukranian defence lines virtually collapses in places like Advi...
5, with defences collapsing at several stragetically important places and the defence in shambles, the russians push on hard and capture a lot of territory and strategic positions rapidly.
6, Full retreat and is is decided that even if they start intelligence sharing again it might be too late to stop the russian advances, at least too late to stop the advances in the short term.
7, someone has to fall on the sword for causing this collapse and it is Nylund.

Nylund tried to force the Ukes to reinstate Z-gen, it failed spectacularly and caused a total collapse at several strategic points of the defence line. Collapse so complete that even reversing the threat would not help regain the losses. And thus she got fired for fucking up the war and possibly ending it prematurely.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Idk if you could even build a single new factory in Western Europe for that money.

It seems a gigafactory costs Tesla about a billion, so you probably could get a factory building something up and running for a billion, but a gigafactory doesn't do shit without suppliers.

1, Gen-Z is suddenly fired.

Fucking gen-z fucking everything up for the boomers lol

 

[Glowing In The Streets]

Here is my completely made up speculative theory of what could have happened that led up to Nylund's very sudden resigning/firing/fall

1, Gen-Z is suddenly fired. This comes out of the blue to the US and shocks the administation
2, Nylund extremely urgently goes to Ukraine to try to fix things, it didn't work, no one listened to her.
3, Nylund and the administration tries to pressure Ukraine by stopping intelligence sharing. a.k.a Bring Z-gen back and the intelligence spigot is turned back on.
4, This backfires catastrophically since without real-time intelligence on russian assets and positions the Ukranian defence lines virtually collapses in places like Advi...
5, with defences collapsing at several stragetically important places and the defence in shambles, the russians push on hard and capture a lot of territory and strategic positions rapidly.
6, Full retreat and is is decided that even if they start intelligence sharing again it might be too late to stop the russian advances, at least too late to stop the advances in the short term.
7, someone has to fall on the sword for causing this collapse and it is Nylund.

Nylund tried to force the Ukes to reinstate Z-gen, it failed spectacularly and caused a total collapse at several strategic points of the defence line. Collapse so complete that even reversing the threat would not help regain the losses. And thus she got fired for fucking up the war and possibly ending it prematurely.

Why would she risk it for gen-Z? Was he fucking her?
the Post, among others, argued that Ukraine was not listening to american ""guidance"", and chose instead to go with their own gut. If anything, taking out Zaluzhny was a win for Nuland

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Nylund tried to force the Ukes to reinstate Z-gen, it failed spectacularly and caused a total collapse at several strategic points of the defence line. Collapse so complete that even reversing the threat would not help regain the losses. And thus she got fired for fucking up the war and possibly ending it prematurely.

(literal doubled posts, delete one)

Guaranteed someone who hates this bitch (that she probably stabbed in the back) made certain he/she writes very specific cya memorandums offering a better strategic plan while making sure to detail the flaws in hers and cc'ed everyone. There are always cliques in State and I know with a 99% probability the second the AFU lines collapsed they circulated another memo with the prior ones attached and said she was wrong wrong wrong every time and made references to this being an election year.

She also looks like she fucking dying.

Why would she risk it for gen-Z?

Have you forgotten boomer neocon retardation? The same boomers that think they can take on Russia and win. The same boomers who think Bloodlands is 100% truth.

Was he fucking her?

lolno there's are fantastic 10+ hoholinas out there, guaranteed he has at least two on the side. It was likely the lack of sat-tel that fucked the Ukraine.

 

[Susanna]

Collapse so complete that even reversing the threat would not help regain the losses. And thus she got fired for fucking up the war and possibly ending it prematurely.

Based... Nuland...?

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

1.5 trillion wouldn't be enough for Europe to have a military that can compete with the US, China, or Russia. The amount of institutional knowledge/history required to build a functioning military-industrial complex is unthinkably vast. Europeans should just give up and accept that they've become the bitch of greater powers. Macron's larping about an independent Europe is embarassing.

Europe has plenty of institutional knowledge and current experience building advanced jets, helicopters, tanks, IFVs, missiles, guns and warships.

Euro Military Hardware Porn

The Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen are excellent 4+ gen planes that any air force in the world would be happy to fly




They build a complete range of indigenous military helicopters



There's nothing wrong with Euro armor either. Ukraine's failures with the Leopard 2 don't mean it's a bad tank. Ukraine has failed with every model of tank at their disposal.

[ATTACH ]5786659[/ATTACH]


Europe can still build bigger and better warships than Russia. They have more aircraft carriers, higher quality frigates and destroyers, and better submarines.



Overall, the Euro MIC is one of the most capable on Earth. They're competitive with the US in most areas, ahead of Russia technologically in most areas (except hypersonics), and France is a truly independent nuclear power with its own homebuilt ICBMs.

So why do they suck?

Because "Europe" doesn't really exist as a defense customer. So multinational projects like the Eurofighter, Tiger, and NH90 suffer from different national variants, purchased in relatively small numbers, leading to higher costs, difficult maintenance and worse availability of spare parts.

Individual Euro countries are gay and therefore don't want to spend real money on defense, so they make small numbers of expensive, complex systems that don't benefit from scale. No point in having better diesel AIP subs than Russia when your navy can only afford 3 of them (lol Sweden).

Russia gets a lot more value from its spend, because they're a single country producing a smaller number of types. And because Russia hasn't decided to fuck itself with Net Zero, it's still affordable to manufacture things in Russia.

Thanks for coming to my Sperg Talk.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Here is my completely made up speculative theory of what could have happened that led up to Nylund's very sudden resigning/firing/fall

1, Gen-Z is suddenly fired. This comes out of the blue to the US and shocks the administation
2, Nylund extremely urgently goes to Ukraine to try to fix things, it didn't work, no one listened to her.
3, Nylund and the administration tries to pressure Ukraine by stopping intelligence sharing. a.k.a Bring Z-gen back and the intelligence spigot is turned back on.
4, This backfires catastrophically since without real-time intelligence on russian assets and positions the Ukranian defence lines virtually collapses in places like Advi...
5, with defences collapsing at several stragetically important places and the defence in shambles, the russians push on hard and capture a lot of territory and strategic positions rapidly.
6, Full retreat and is is decided that even if they start intelligence sharing again it might be too late to stop the russian advances, at least too late to stop the advances in the short term.
7, someone has to fall on the sword for causing this collapse and it is Nylund.

Nylund tried to force the Ukes to reinstate Z-gen, it failed spectacularly and caused a total collapse at several strategic points of the defence line. Collapse so complete that even reversing the threat would not help regain the losses. And thus she got fired for fucking up the war and possibly ending it prematurely.

Ukraine wouldn't still be hitting/sinking Russian ships without US intel feeding them everything needed top-to-bottom from the weapons to real-time targeting to probably pulling the actual firing trigger themselves.

 

[Cold Root Beer]

I'm going to guess it's more pragmatic (and pathetic) reasons: Recent and ongoing developments and US news coverage is making Biden look really bad, and he needs someone to fall on the sword during election year. ChildSniffer in Chiefs staff must have finally realized that Ukraine is going to lose, and there is a strong chance it totally collapses this year before the US election. So, they pin in on her, pivot, and try to do everything it takes to stall and juggle the blunder until after the election. And/or hand Trump a nightmare quagmire as a "fuck-you" move.

 

[Susanna]

No point in having better diesel AIP subs than Russia when your navy can only afford 3 of them (lol Sweden).

I may be mistaken here, but wasn't the whole point of those subs to demonstrate an implementation of Stirling propulsion to the yanks to gain a contract? IIRC they "leased" one of those subs to the yanks to reverse-engineer for considerably more than they spent building them.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

US intel

You spelled "The Eternal Anglo" wrong. The Black Sea-Sevastopol-Crimea targets smell of stale beer and greasy fish.

hand Trump a nightmare quagmire as a "fuck-you" move

This too. Even if Trump successfully negotiates an end to this clusterfuck they will still trot out tearful Banderite whores for the cameras weeping over "Trump's betrayal".

No one will care by then, tho.

 

[Fapcop]

The Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen are excellent 4+ gen planes that any air force in the world would be happy to fly

Meh…

These planes all originate in the 1980ies.
And are all being replaced with American planes.

The Leopard is likewise a decades old design as are European helicopters.

It’s not entirely wrong to say that a lot of institutional knowledge and know how has been lost.

An interesting video on the unique nature of this war:

Arestovich is right of course. Ukraine would be a parking lot, if Russia has acted like the IDF does in Gaza.

EDIT: Also a friendly reminder that literally nobody wanted these Euro 4Gen planes. They were hoping for export sales back in the day, shipped them around for years without getting any takers (Apart from the couple of Eurofighters they sold to Saudi Arabia, when the Saudis wanted to get closer to Europe.) until a few third world shitholes that needed to replace their Soviet planes from the 1960ies finally picked up a few.

 

[Tamerlane]

The US Navy is equally impotent in the Red Sea. Cheap drones have really changed the nature of naval warfare, even more than land, because if you think a $2m tank is expensive, wait until you see naval budgets. For the time being, drones have made near-shore warfare all but impossible, just as the US Navy is trying to rebuild doctrine around the LCS. There will eventually be some way of defeating the cheapest drones, but right now, naval vessels are just expensive pieces of steel waiting to get blown up.

My poor mother in law just passed, married for many decades to my retired suvmariner father in law. So last weekend I was driving to my old lady's home town right outside of Bremerton WA. I always find it interesting to see what the navy has tied up along the waiting for disposal dock. For many years it was a swarm of aging carriers, but last weekend I was treated to the busted hulk of a catameran style LCS. I got thinking maybe the best way to further streamline the defense industry might be to just hand cash out directly to arms conglomerates, system apparatchiks and party yes men politicians. Building the ridiculous boondoggles is just wasting everyone's time. Indeed with the current system maybe some of the money ends up in the hands of some welder or something seething with white rage. We can just cut that wasteful part of the loop right out.

 

[Glowing In The Streets]

Have you forgotten boomer neocon retardation? The same boomers that think they can take on Russia and win. The same boomers who think Bloodlands is 100% truth.

lolno there's are fantastic 10+ hoholinas out there, guaranteed he has at least two on the side. It was likely the lack of sat-tel that fucked the Ukraine.

Precisely, Zaluzhny didnt kowtow boomer fantasies. If anything, taking out z would be a Nuland Victory. no way she was interested in keeping z in
She is taking the blame for the recent losses and shitshow of Avdiivka

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

but last weekend I was treated to the busted hulk of a catameran style LCS

This guy (errr, gal?)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_%28LCS-2%29

Yeah, sorry about that, the blueprints were mine in a former life. The Navy always knew that was what would eventually come of them before the first was even built. The spice must flow ya know!

 

[Feline Supremacist]

 

[Tamerlane]

This guy (errr, gal?)?

View attachment 5787019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_%28LCS-2%29

Yeah, sorry about that, the blueprints were mine in a former life. The Navy always knew that was what would eventually come of them before the first was even built. The spice must flow ya know!

Find whatever comercial ship that is big enough for the landing pad and can generate enough power for the sensors. Order a dozen of them.
I actually get mad thinking about how imsane the whole thing was. They made two special kinds of worthless boats which must only have existed to double the rate of theft from the treasury.

 

[blackjack101]

/pol/ trying to find solutions to protect the ships.