The American Child Torture Industry: Cons and Cults Disguised as Schools - Because Discord and Roblox aren't bad enough.

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In what way? What do they do to the kids in seminars?

Well, yeah. You also have to fully contextualize the seminar for the "processes" to really make sense, otherwise it can be easily mistaken as retarded games ran by morons. Here goes, read at your own risk.

Seminars last anywhere from 2-4 days, 18+ hours a day, with no sense of the outside world. Windows are papered over and lights are pitch black or extremely bright. Spotlights are often used. When you are done for the day, you are given heaps of homework to do to stop you from sleeping. Disorientation and sleep deprivation is CIA torture 101. Lack of water or food or even bathroom breaks are also a big part of the humiliation and mind-breaking.

If at any time, you do not cooperate with the seminar, actively and enthusiastically humiliating yourself and others, you "chose out", so you go to Breakpoint, or isolation/OP (OP stands for Observation Placement, many WWASPS programs use the term, and I think PCS does too) then Breakpoint, or whatever. You might also get beat up or worse Breakpoint isn't just that hands up hands down psycho culty patty cake thing for 8+ hours (with the threat of being beaten, or worse, and locked up in iso/op, if you don't cooperate.

So, we've established that you have to enthusiastically participate in the abuse of yourself and others, you're dehydrated, exhausted, terrified, and you've likely at least heard of accounts of what happens if you don't participate, or even heard the screams. Let's go onto the psycho processes!

They're poorly remembered, and what is remembered is only bits and pieces. I've had to reconstruct shit by talking to people for a long time, and things evolve - so I might have an anachronistic idea of it all based off of a little bit of what happened in 99 mixed with what happened in 07. Whatever. They're made to break you down, indeed, breakdowns are seen as breakthroughs, because of all the bullshit with lifespring/est/William Erhard's bullshit that is itself worth a fucking feature thread, sigh.

ANYWAY, ONTO THE PROCESSES!

Mirroring: A kid is singled out and put on a stage if they had one, or just up near the facilitator, often in a spotlight. Higher levels, staff, and even kids who were still mid level but through that one seminar already would surround them and copy their body language, posture, facial expression, and repeat their words. This could be anywhere from ridiculous to a joke, to mocking someone having a panic attack.

Nine Dots: David or some other faggot draws a 3x3 grid. After being stuck in a goddamned program, you're told to think outside the box and screamed at, and threatened with choosing out, if you don't figure out the trick. There are a few ways to solve the trick question that even a cultfuck can remember, but nobody in a program could possibly figure it out. They also draw the dots too small intentionally the first time:

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This serves no purpose, just makes you feel dumb and scared, and put on the spot to freak out and panic given what could happen to you if you don't try hard enough to avoid a choose-out.

The nametag shit: They did cover this, but they talked about it, instead of showing it - and again they were buzzed, safe, sunlight was coming in, and adults in an abandoned room, not hundreds of terrified kids. Alexa was "crackwhore" since the program deemed her a druggie. Rape victims were called "sluts". Anyone who would be hurt by being accused of homosexuality would be accused accordingly, blah blah blah.

LIFEBOAT: This hurt everyone the most. At the end of the day, often day 2 of Discovery, you're worn out, feeling and acting like you're on a MDMA high, and out of your mind. They play soft music, turn down the lights, tell you to lay down, etc, then shock you into waking again by throwing chairs and banging things and playing loud music, screaming, and turning the lights on. Again, do not forget how out of their minds they are. After rearranging things, everyone was stood up, and a chair was put in a spotlight. One at a time, every kid had to stand up there and beg to be allowed to live while everyone screamed die, and if you didn't blubber and plead or sob or scream hard enough, you got chose out. And, of course, you had to scream DIE at everyone else. Only three kids there would be 'voted' to live. If only the people who did this to children would drown themselves.

Other bullshit that doesn't seem to have names or nobody remembers:
People with their names would have to stand up and talk about how they don't want to feel like those labels and choose to something something bootstrap out of it, despite being trapped in a culty torture school. The audience was made to attack the person on the spot, and again, when each kid took their seat, they did the same back.

Kids could and would be singled out. A high level or even a staffer or facilitator might talk about how there's a problem, and the problem is 'you', the singled out kid. Group, public humiliation is extremely damaging, as is having to help them hurt you lest you get sent to breakpoint or thrown in OP or busted to busted to level 1.

Something I have VERY COMMONLY heard of (this is easy to google, too) is shit like the dances and bullshit, you know, like everyone danced to Right Said Fred's I'm too Sexy, including boys in drag? Rape victims lapdancing to "Santa Baby" in some 90s of 00s outfit are hardly uncommon.

Basically, they just came up with shit to break everyone more than once, and stuck to 'processes' that had the most effect on the most people, because it's a cult and breakdowns are breakthroughs, or they got off on it.

If you want to see what the PARENTS went through, I just dug up some old horror shit:

I said, “You are also much bigger than I am”. I had a full sense of the power of Don’s personality and also of his physical strength when he was standing this close to me. Suddenly, he changed from a mocking behavior to the aggressive stance he had described earlier as gangster posture. He pointed his finger at my face, about ½” inch away from right between my eyes. He said forcefully, “I could rob you.” He paused, looking me straight in the eyes with menace; “I could take away your woman hood.” He paused for a response and when I gave none, he said, “I could kill you.”

This was, of course, done to the kids. Sadly, this is extremely hard to put together - I had to spend YEARS on this shit to get little pieces of the puzzle. When I had enough that it started to come clear, it drove me to push harder. Sadly, I don't know how to really show this horror except in literature. How the fuck could I film this!?
 
The LDS church doesn't have their own police force or courthouse or the like to arrest whoever gets reported directly to their leadership offices, it's not the fucking Vatican and shit. I don't know how it works, I have not asked a bishop or stake leader how that hotline works or anything or known someone close who's gone through that, I just assume that it's to let the leaders know someone in a church position is being unworthy of a position if they hold a calling in the church. Excommunications I do know has to go through church leadership when removing someone from the record, so it may be related to that. Otherwise, bishops and other church leaders are supposed to ALSO be contacting local law enforcement when they learn of abuse, not just contacting the church hotline and leaving it at that.

I swear I heard years ago that there was a case where a member of the Seventy had gotten caught with CP or something and was removed from their position in the church and then excommunicated, whether they had gotten arrested I don't know. It's just something I remember hearing about in passing and just haven't corroborated to see if there was any truth to it. Maybe it was a member of the bishopric or something, I just know that serious allegations do get taken seriously and investigated when someone puts in that effort.

So that's the thing, the people who run these places may be Mormons, and some of them may have actual callings in the church like the bishopric, stake leader, or some record keeping or whatever in their home wards, but that doesn't mean members of the Quorum are in on it and are trying to get the church to change its views on abuse and stuff. They may know that it does happen among individuals throughout the world, they just can't do anything about it themselves except continuously speak out against abuse because that is the church's stance on the matter, recent talks have made this clear that abuse should not be tolerated. Should someone who is higher-up be uncovered to have connections to these places, then absolutely contact the leadership about it, and also file police reports, just don't expect any open letters to come from it unless it becomes publicly reported on.

That being said, that these institutions and the like are known to be monstrous in nature are still active suggests a higher power wants them open. If one can follow the money trail, they may figure out the root cause and then find a way to legally hurt them and get people arrested. The Romneys being connected to one such place sounds entirely plausible and unsurprising. Mitt is practically a Jack Mormon at this point and his family has been infected with power, it's entirely possible they have an endless pool of hush money to try and keep these off the record, and their family wards may be none the wiser. But what can the prophet do about it? He can't, there's no power in his position to do that, because that's what the justice system's for.

I feel sorry for the victims who lose their faith and trust just because the adults in their lives failed them, and part of the healing process in any form of abuse is them coming to terms with the fact it happened, the abuse inflicted on them was never their fault, and God is still there for them. There are still too many gullible people out there falling for these schemes and unknowingly (maybe) putting their children into danger. And people do get desperate for answers or results, and get preyed upon because they were running out of options or couldn't find the right answers. Though what gets me about this is that if there have indeed been reports of children actually dying from these outrageous practices, then why haven't those parents been able to take these institutions and camps to court? What's written in those contracts that keeps this under wraps? What silenced them that they can't warn others about them?
 
Look, the major troubled teen group within Evangelicalism is something called Teen Challenge, which is nothing like this. Let Us Prey deals with the IFB (fundamentalist) churches, and, yes, the scandals are terrible. Still, it is different from WWASPs, where everything is a sham, and the institution has no intention of serving its stated purpose. You can and do have fundy churches without sex scandals, but the Lichfield model could never be anything but abusive. (You may be thinking of radio preacher Lester Roloff and the horrors at Rebekah Home for Girls, which is a similar tragedy.)

Teen Challenge has absolutely gotten close to this shit, but I haven't followed it for a long time. And it's all one industry. I don't single out WWASPS for any reason other than it made the most victims to speak to, and, they left so much evidence.

Roloff and Rebekah Home is absolutely as white-hot-evil as WWASPS, just out of Missouri and more Evangelical than Mormon, yeah.
 
Case in point, I know of a program decades ago that taught life skills to people with issues fresh out of high school. They did what they claimed to, but were still scammy.

Although they were funded by either government or by parents sending their children there, they'd still demand that students hand over income from jobs (which they'd push the students to get), deduct "rent", and then give the students what was left (usually a rather small amount), essentially making a double income. But they wouldn't provide food for the students, which could mean students could have a "food security" issue.

They were also "discriminatory" against government funded people: while privately-funded people were matched up with compatible roommates, government funded people were lumped together. Which would mean that people with a clean record could be sharing a place with convicted felons. The government-funded people were eventually all expelled for one reason or another, while the privately-funded people more or less all remained, of course.

They would also confiscate personal property of students as a penalty for rule-breaking, which could then be stolen while being held by them, as security wasn't that great.

And speaking of security, the "campus" was some apartment complex in an inner city with a high crime rate.

Eventually they relocated to a much nicer place (after dropping the government-funded kids), and reviews seem to show they're not corrupt now. The old apartment complex is there, and still sucks according to reviews.

So while that program was nowhere near as bad as those outright concentration camps -- for example the students were free to come and go as they pleased -- it goes to show just how many crappy youth and young adult programs there must be in this country.

My floater in Christ, this sounds like Teen Challenge.
 
Netflix didn't commission that documentary as a public service. These are the same people who streamed Cuties, after all. There is an agenda to make the viewer distrust all education outside government regulation, all religion, and all traditional morality. And, of course, you are in this thread to push the same ideological line.
Netflix's only agenda is making money.
 
The LDS church doesn't have their own police force or courthouse or the like to arrest whoever gets reported directly to their leadership offices, it's not the fucking Vatican and shit.
The problem is they don't even inform secular authorities and often stop investigations once they get started.

Netflix's only agenda is making money.
Katherine did it herself, they just distributed.
 
The problem is they don't even inform secular authorities and often stop investigations once they get started.
That sounds like it's an individual ward and not the entire church as a whole, though. Unless someone has infiltrated such positions to keep even the prophet in the dark, this is more of a community/small town problem where everyone knows each other and may be trying to "look after" one another.
 
That sounds like it's an individual ward and not the entire church as a whole, though. Unless someone has infiltrated such positions to keep even the prophet in the dark, this is more of a community/small town problem where everyone knows each other and may be trying to "look after" one another.
I would be very surprised if the Church's legal team and leadership isn't at least vaguely aware of the child torture camps, especially after the federal investigation.
 
That sounds like it's an individual ward and not the entire church as a whole, though. Unless someone has infiltrated such positions to keep even the prophet in the dark, this is more of a community/small town problem where everyone knows each other and may be trying to "look after" one another.

I think many multiple millions of dollars and decades of lawsuits and public outcry and investigations would wield occam's razor and say that it's dirty people within the church.

Look, I don't want to get into some trinitarian IS/IS NOT shit about what percent of leaders in the LDS church covering this shit up and taking bribes goes from "a faction of" to "the whole thing." This ain't the thread for it. And until the LDS church actually cleans house, given that they have absolutely known for decades, they're implicated.
 
Well, yeah. You also have to fully contextualize the seminar for the "processes" to really make sense, otherwise it can be easily mistaken as retarded games ran by morons. Here goes, read at your own risk.
You seem to have extensive knowledge of these seminars. How do you know all this?
Otherwise, bishops and other church leaders are supposed to ALSO be contacting local law enforcement when they learn of abuse, not just contacting the church hotline and leaving it at that.
Can you post any evidence that corroborates this? Based on what’s been posted so far, I’m led to believe that Bishops are specifically discouraged from contacting law enforcement.
I swear I heard years ago that there was a case where a member of the Seventy had gotten caught with CP or something and was removed from their position in the church and then excommunicated, whether they had gotten arrested I don't know. It's just something I remember hearing about in passing and just haven't corroborated to see if there was any truth to it. Maybe it was a member of the bishopric or something, I just know that serious allegations do get taken seriously and investigated when someone puts in that effort.
Can you remember anything else? My own google searches are turning up dry.
 
I would be very surprised if the Church's legal team and leadership isn't at least vaguely aware of the child torture camps, especially after the federal investigation.

Outcry and investigations during MITT RMONEY'S CAMPAIGN, many years ago, exposed his links to this shit. The FBI finally got involved with the raid on Midwest Academy. Every overseas program was raided and closed by local authorities for the torture of children. Inside Edition published film of High Impact - that's where I got the kids in literal cages stills.

There's NO fucking way they don't know.
 
You seem to have extensive knowledge of these seminars. How do you know all this?

I fought them, and listened to the survivors, for twenty fucking years. Fornits.com used to be the only place you could talk about this and meet survivors. I stumbled in when I first heard about Tranquility Bay. I listened to people, got involved, made lifelong friends, had WWASPS try to honeytrap me (looooooooooooooooool) got embroiled in the Whitmore affair, had Sue fucking Scheff go after my sock puppets, and eventually remembered my own shit that I was repressing.

No, it wasn't a commercial, or mormon, or even religious program, but something county ran with levels and the same general pattern of behavior because the rotten fruit doesn't fall far from the Synanon tree. Given that this is being watched I can't divulge too much, and frankly, I'm not doing it for myself. I do suppose my experience helped me understand what others were going through, however.

But at any rate, it comes down to wanting to stop people from being hurt, wanting to help people who suffered even worse than I have, and honestly, at this point, a personal hate for these people. As I said earlier in the thread, I've gotten kids out of WWASPS programs when I found parents who would listen. The first kid I got out of a program was pulled out of one of Narvin's programs.

The fact that I have always been able to listen to a story and put myself there also helped as much as hurt. When people told me this shit, I was there, even if I didn't realize at the time it's because I had been through similar shit. Now that I can process it all and put it together, I think it comes down to enough personal experience to jump the gap from empathy and imagination to invasive thoughts of experiencing this hell and wanting to rip their eyes out and put them on the blue fucking chair.
 
I fought them, and listened to the survivors, for twenty fucking years. Fornits.com used to be the only place you could talk about this and meet survivors. I stumbled in when I first heard about Tranquility Bay. I listened to people, got involved, made lifelong friends, had WWASPS try to honeytrap me (looooooooooooooooool) got embroiled in the Whitmore affair, had Sue fucking Scheff go after my sock puppets, and eventually remembered my own shit that I was repressing.

No, it wasn't a commercial, or mormon, or even religious program, but something county ran with levels and the same general pattern of behavior because the rotten fruit doesn't fall far from the Synanon tree. Given that this is being watched I can't divulge too much, and frankly, I'm not doing it for myself. I do suppose my experience helped me understand what others were going through, however.

But at any rate, it comes down to wanting to stop people from being hurt, wanting to help people who suffered even worse than I have, and honestly, at this point, a personal hate for these people. As I said earlier in the thread, I've gotten kids out of WWASPS programs when I found parents who would listen. The first kid I got out of a program was pulled out of one of Narvin's programs.

The fact that I have always been able to listen to a story and put myself there also helped as much as hurt. When people told me this shit, I was there, even if I didn't realize at the time it's because I had been through similar shit. Now that I can process it all and put it together, I think it comes down to enough personal experience to jump the gap from empathy and imagination to invasive thoughts of experiencing this hell and wanting to rip their eyes out and put them on the blue fucking chair.
I sympathize with you, totally. Yet there are more angles to this story.
 
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especially after the federal investigation.
I think many multiple millions of dollars and decades of lawsuits and public outcry and investigations would wield occam's razor and say that it's dirty people within the church.
And that's another thing: if the LDS church leadership (not bishops and stake leaders) was ever at all involved with these camps, they would've gotten fucking raped by the federal government. The government has been trying to get on them over tax shit for years, you can bet your bottom dollar anything involving children torture camps and the like would be manna from heaven to journalists and the government. The Vatican can't shake off such allegations, how could the LDS church do that no problem? Paying hush money wouldn't ever be kept secret from investigations, especially by people who absolutely want the church dismantled.

Can you post any evidence that corroborates this? Based on what’s been posted so far, I’m led to believe that Bishops are specifically discouraged from contacting law enforcement.
Sounds like common sense knowledge, honestly. But directly from the church general handbook:
2024-03-10 18.14.34 www.churchofjesuschrist.org 58228323806b.png

There may be abuse hotlines and such the church has set up, but leaders and members still need to report to legal authorities.

Can you remember anything else? My own google searches are turning up dry.
Nope, it was something I heard from back in high school, never looked into it. It must've been someone local and I got it mixed up with the general authority since new leaders had gotten appointed then.
 
Outcry and investigations during MITT RMONEY'S CAMPAIGN, many years ago, exposed his links to this shit. The FBI finally got involved with the raid on Midwest Academy. Every overseas program was raided and closed by local authorities for the torture of children. Inside Edition published film of High Impact - that's where I got the kids in literal cages stills.

There's NO fucking way they don't know.
My guess is that they might not be directly involved, but are aware and are perfectly happy to let it happen as long as the Troubled Teen Industry keeps bringing so much money into Utah.
 
And that's another thing: if the LDS church leadership (not bishops and stake leaders) was ever at all involved with these camps, they would've gotten fucking raped by the federal government. The government has been trying to get on them over tax shit for years, you can bet your bottom dollar anything involving children torture camps and the like would be manna from heaven to journalists and the government. The Vatican can't shake off such allegations, how could the LDS church do that no problem? Paying hush money wouldn't ever be kept secret from investigations, especially by people who absolutely want the church dismantled.

The Lichfields and Kays set up weird umbrella orgs for limited liability so the corporation would take the fall instead of the owners because corpo-bullshit, and operated out of towns and counties with dirty judges who could torpedo cases or investigations at the right time.

Just who above them took the money to do this is beyond my knowledge, and poking around to find out might be extremely fucking dangerous to do. I don't know how they did it in full detail, no, but I'd really like for this to get the lid blown off already.

Also, don't think I'm trying to pick on Mormons here. The Evangelicals out of Missouri need to face the same fucking wall, and the Feds who have had their fingers in this pie since Straight Incorporated, as much as fucking Epstein, need to get perp walked all the same.
 
My guess is that they might not be directly involved, but are aware and are perfectly happy to let it happen as long as the Troubled Teen Industry keeps bringing so much money into Utah.
I doubt this explanation. They collect 10% of every member’s wage, so the church isn’t hurting. If Utah wants to bring industry in to improve our economy, we do what every other state does and court the military industrial complex.
 
I doubt this explanation. They collect 10% of every member’s wage, so the church isn’t hurting. If Utah wants to bring industry in to improve our economy, we do what every other state does and court the military industrial complex.
Still, it's hard to imagine they don't know something especially after the federal investigation. I doubt most random normie Mormons are aware, but I can't imagine the official legal team for the church especially is completely in the dark about this shit. Especially not with big-name people like Mitt Romney being connected.

Somethings fucky.
 
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