Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

That, and most of the people who went after Jake Lloyd were the critic types who hated the kid for playing as kid Anakin. Whenever you hear negative reviews of TPM, they usually mention how they fucking hate the kid who played Anakin. The average fan didn't give a crap about him because they were too distracted by the cool lightsaber fights and sci-fi battles to care.
I do give leniency to child actors. I do think it’s sometimes douchey to nominate a child for a Razzie (see last year’s Razzie). Of course child actors can be great, like Haley Joel Osment, Julia Butters, Abigail Breslin, etc., but I don’t fault them much for a less-than-stellar performance.
 
Darth Vader was a force reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the PT.
Luke Skywalker was a force to be reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the ST.

No matter what anyone does, they will never be able to reach or match the OT. Not even George Lucas himself.
So? We've got Rey Palpatine now, chud. The Force is female, sweaty.
 
So? We've got Rey Palpatine now, chud. The Force is female, sweaty.
Nah, she's Rey "It's literally me!" Skywalker. Now all the stronk females can point at their TV screens like Leo DiCaprio and say, "Look, it's literally me!"
We did it! We did it, Reddit! We forced represention'd Star Wars to death and now it's literally everyone!
(Except for the fans because they're racist bigots who hate innovative art).
 
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Jake Lloyd's Anakin is about as far removed from the OT's Darth Vader as Jake Skywalker of TLJ is from the OT's Luke Skywalker.

Darth Vader was a force reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the PT.
Luke Skywalker was a force to be reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the ST.

No matter what anyone does, they will never be able to reach or match the OT. Not even George Lucas himself.
Oh God, I just realized that with the ST and now the Mandoverse, SW has put itself in the same treadmill as 80s slasher movies: each installment has to end with the good guys winning, then every sequel has to completely deflate that victory in order to tell the same story again with a few aesthetic tweaks.

Say what you want about the PT, it successfully ended with the bad guy winning. They'll never have the balls to do that one ever again.
 
Oh God, I just realized that with the ST and now the Mandoverse, SW has put itself in the same treadmill as 80s slasher movies: each installment has to end with the good guys winning, then every sequel has to completely deflate that victory in order to tell the same story again with a few aesthetic tweaks.

Say what you want about the PT, it successfully ended with the bad guy winning. They'll never have the balls to do that one ever again.
Remember, Gary Kurtz's original script for Revenge Return of the Jedi ended bittersweetly. Han dies. Leia becomes jaded. Luke kills the Emperor, buries his father and puts himself into exile, riding off into the sunset. The Empire is crippled, but still exists. The galactic civil war is far from over.

But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!

 
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But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!
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Remember, Gary Kurtz's original script for Revenge Return of the Jedi ended bittersweetly. Han dies. Leia becomes jaded. Luke kills the Emperor, buries his father and puts himself into exile, riding off into the sunset. The Empire is crippled, but still exists. The galactic civil war is far from over.

But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!

Ehhh, I don't think this is better than what we got. It doesn't really pay off Empire very well, and unless they were planning to make more movies after that it's just sort of a damp squib. I can see killing off Han, because supposedly Harrison Ford had been pushing for that since Empire, but it's decidedly off brand for Star Wars to end with "and they all killed each other unhappily ever after" a la the Expanse.
 
Darth Vader was a force reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the PT.
Are you serious? ROTS Anakin was even more powerful and more dangerous than Vader. At least in the OT, you had the comfort of knowing that he moves and fights with the grace of a drunk fratboy. Anakin, meanwhile, had the elegance of the PT-era Jedi and the killer instinct of the Sith, making him far more deadly. If the dude wasn't crippled by Kenobi, he'd have overthrown Palpatine and dominated the galaxy.

Jake Lloyd's Anakin is about as far removed from the OT's Darth Vader as Jake Skywalker of TLJ is from the OT's Luke Skywalker.
More like how Luke in ANH is far removed from Luke in ROTJ. Because, you know, there's this thing called character development, I'm sure you've heard of it.

Jake Lloyd wasn't asked to portray Darth Vader; he was asked to portray a young, idealistic kid who will one day become Darth Vader, and he did his job well.

No matter what anyone does, they will never be able to reach or match the OT. Not even George Lucas himself.
Once again, are you kidding? Revenge of the Sith is almost as good as ESB, and just as good as ANH and ROTJ.
 
Remember, Gary Kurtz's original script for Revenge Return of the Jedi ended bittersweetly. Han dies. Leia becomes jaded. Luke kills the Emperor, buries his father and puts himself into exile, riding off into the sunset. The Empire is crippled, but still exists. The galactic civil war is far from over.

But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!
Yes, let's turn the movie franchise that started out as a fairy tale in space into a dark, brooding mess that postmodernists jack off to.

Seriously, it's that kind of horseshit that's gotten really tiresome by this point. After damn near every superhero/sci-fi/fantasy series has swam deep into the grimdark pool, it's actually countercultural and refreshing to have a story that ends like Star Wars.

ANH ended like a happy fairy tale ending, ESB went to dark places but still had a strong hint of hope in the end, so it makes sense that ROTJ would also have a happy ending.

Star Wars was always made to be comfort food so that the audience feels happy. Trying to make it as grimdark as ASOIAF or Brood War makes no sense. This is why a lot of fans noped out of the NJO novels, they felt it was too grimdark for Star Wars.
 
Remember, Gary Kurtz's original script for Revenge Return of the Jedi ended bittersweetly. Han dies. Leia becomes jaded. Luke kills the Emperor, buries his father and puts himself into exile, riding off into the sunset. The Empire is crippled, but still exists. The galactic civil war is far from over.

But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!


Sometimes "Happily ever after" isnt there to sell toys, my man.

Consider that ANH came off in the final years of the 70's, a very cynical time by itself, Lucas knew that people needed something that felt real, good, honest and from the heart. The whole point of ep 4 is "A new hope" to signify the beginning of the end of a dark age.
Jake Lloyd wasn't asked to portray Darth Vader; he was asked to portray a young, idealistic kid who will one day become Darth Vader, and he did his job well.

I think people wanted Anakin to look more like an abused child, full of fear just waiting to become hatred.

I have mixed feelings on that, while I think things like Anakin shouting "yipee" was too corny, turning him into a scar covered child with psychological scars feels...idk...too on the nose? I guess EP 1 Anakin works because he is an innocent kid who is trying to hang on to hope and dreaming on helping others like him. Luke was similar but his dreams were to go out and explore and maybe join the rebels but his true goal was to leave his home and go into the galaxy at large. Anakin's dream was to help others, sure he wanted to see the galaxy but he seemed to want to help the innocent more so when Jedi came around, it was like seeing a super hero with your own eyes. I guess what Im trying to say is that his innocence and optimist was endearing and made it so much more heart breaking when all that hope and optimism slowly turns into into bitter hatred until he is nothing but a barely living body inside a black metal coffin. People just want monsters to always start off with who they are going to become on the nose because its easier to digest or something, idk. Seeing something reeking of innocence turning into a goliath of evil and hatred is far more impactful.

ANH ended like a happy fairy tale ending, ESB went to dark places but still had a strong hint of hope in the end, so it makes sense that ROTJ would also have a happy ending.

The OT is the hero's journey, their rise, fall then rise again higher than ever. You cant reinvent the wheel.
Are you serious? ROTS Anakin was even more powerful and more dangerous than Vader. At least in the OT, you had the comfort of knowing that he moves and fights with the grace of a drunk fratboy. Anakin, meanwhile, had the elegance of the PT-era Jedi and the killer instinct of the Sith, making him far more deadly. If the dude wasn't crippled by Kenobi, he'd have overthrown Palpatine and dominated the galaxy.

Vader is like a tank, not very elegant but can handle damage and ditch it hard. Which is why even PT era high skill warriors couldnt penetrate his stone wall defenses and could only barely block his hard strikes.

Rogue One did remind us he can be surprisingly fast, at least his arm and wrist work.
Darth Vader was a force reckoned with and they turned him into a wimp through the PT.

I guess Knightfall Anakin casually wiping the floor with a couple of Jedi MASTERS was being a wimp, huh?
 
Yes, let's turn the movie franchise that started out as a fairy tale in space into a dark, brooding mess that postmodernists jack off to.
Smoking dat crack again, I see. Postmodernism is pozzed. It's not dark and brooding. It's "edgy safe." Corporate media will never do dark and brooding Star Wars. Ever.

"Nobody's ever really gone."

Bresidrs, Gary Kurtz didn't want dark and brooding, he wanted bittersweet. Simple as.

(Also, dedicating two separate posts to reply to me is autistic as fuck.)

I guess Knightfall Anakin casually wiping the floor with a couple of Jedi MASTERS was being a wimp, huh?
Oh, you mean third party wank material that is not in the movies everyone saw in theaters? Yeah, that's totally going to work its way into mainstream consensus and convince everyone that Jake Lloyd's performance was, in fact, not incredubly cringe.

Sorry if this has been posted before
Probably has, but I think this was on the same track as Gary's vision.

unless they were planning to make more movies after
They were, from what I've gathered. The book spinoffs were more or less what had been planned out. The heroes children would be taking up the torches and continuing the fight against the Empire.
 
I think people wanted Anakin to look more like an abused child, full of fear just waiting to become hatred.
That kind of person would've never been trained as a Jedi. Yoda would've never allowed it.

It makes more sense that he starts off optimistic about the world, then he slowly turns pessimistic about it until he decides that fighting for the Jedi isn't worth it and he should turn to the Dark Side because of all the problems that he eventually encounters. Between him not being able to process his mother's death, to his obsession with his wife, to his increasing disillusionment with the Jedi Council and the state of the Republic, that's what makes plenty of people turn into monsters in real life.

I mean, Heinrich Himmler once started off as a goodboy Catholic kid who would never commit war crimes, but then, as the years went by and he grew more jaded as a result, he eventually became an occultist war criminal who was Hitler's right-hand man.

The difference between Luke and Anakin is that the Rebels gave Luke the family that Anakin didn't get with the Jedi; the latter were always so stoic and self-absorbed, whereas the Rebels just don't give a crap so long as you're not an asshole, and they didn't mind Luke shacking it up or getting emotional now and then, whereas the Jedi wouldn't tolerate Anakin having emotional outbursts or a spouse. Luke was promoted quickly through the Rebel ranks thanks to merit, whereas the Jedi won't do the same for Anakin because they're stodgy assholes who promote people based on bootlicking. There's a reason why Anakin, a being who is stronger than Yoda, is outranked by several Jedi Masters who last less than 10 seconds against Palpatine. Hell, remember that one Jedi Jango Fett kills on Geonosis? Dude's a Master and a Council member, and he died like a chump to some Mandalorian gunslinger.

Smoking dat crack again, I see. Postmodernism is pozzed. It's not dark and brooding. It's "edgy safe." Corporate media will never do dark and brooding Star Wars. Ever.

"Nobody's ever really gone."

Bresidrs, Gary Kurtz didn't want dark and brooding, he wanted bittersweet. Simple as.
Bittersweet IS dark and brooding. Also, corporate media has already done dark and brooding more than once. Star Wars, now that it's out of Lucas' hands, they can just as easily decide to do dark and brooding if it makes them money or if their pozzed overlords desire it.

Lucas was the guy who was against dark and brooding. And right now, between ASOIAF, the Boys, the Expanse, Dune, and many other stories, modern media has shown more than an appetite for dark and brooding media. And if they can do it to Superman, the optimistic American Way dude with colorful tights made for kids, they can sure as hell do it for Star Wars. That's the direction Andor seems to be going on, what with him being doomed to die.

Oh, you mean third party wank material that is not in the movies everyone saw in theaters? Yeah, that's totally going to work its way into mainstream consensus and convince everyone that Jake Lloyd's performance was, in fact, not incredubly cringe.
Except we saw him in EP3 kicking Count Dooku's ass. Let me remind you that neither Kenobi nor Yoda could beat Dooku, yet Anakin casually defeats him. How is that not badass? The most Vader did in the OT was whale on a young and inexperienced Luke. The moment Luke finished his training, Vader became a punching bag.

Also, Jake Lloyd was Anakin as a kid. What, did you expect him to be some kind of mass-murdering child from the start? Seriously, people like you will never be satisfied.

Probably has, but I think this was on the same track as Gary's vision.

They were, from what I've gathered. The book spinoffs were more or less what had been planned out. The heroes children would be taking up the torches and continuing the fight against the Empire.
So you still got what you wanted through the books, and you whine like a bitch because Lucas wanted to put in a happy ending for ROTJ. You know, like he did for ANH and ESB.
 
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I just must comment real quick on the hypocrisy around lightsaber stabs.

Establishing it as killing a character in one of the films automatically should rule it out as being survivable multiple times over in future content. It should only be the rarest of things used for dramatic effect if someone is ever to survive it.

Yet the writers are retarded and have no new ideas or considerthe larger picture and are just reusing old ideas. So we can have characters surviving multiple lightsabre stabbings in a single TV series.

It's like how writers never caught onto the idea that getting shot in the left side of your gut, or your shouldert isn't just a slight flesh wound you can brush off. They don't understand anything and so just recycle shit they've seen before.
 
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Patty Jenkins has confirmed that her Rogue Squadron movie has re-entered development, with her taking up scriptwriting duties. I would hasten to remind everyone that the last script she penned was Wonder Woman '84...the quip-tacular trashfire where Diana molests a stranger that has her ex-boyfriend's soul trapped inside, and ditches the sword from previous films because Jenkins thought it was "too aggressive".

Given that there are more cancelled Star Wars projects than finished ones at this point, it will be a miracle if it even gets made. If it does, however, it has zero chance of being even remotely tolerable while Jenkins has any involvement in the script.

Remember, Gary Kurtz's original script for Revenge Return of the Jedi ended bittersweetly. Han dies. Leia becomes jaded. Luke kills the Emperor, buries his father and puts himself into exile, riding off into the sunset. The Empire is crippled, but still exists. The galactic civil war is far from over.

But, nah, let's sell toys to kids and make them feel good that all their heroes are still alive and everyone is happy!

And there are actually people out there that believe that Return of the Jedi "suffered" because of Kurtz's absence, when he had retarded ideas like this.

The only reason his ending ideas aren't the worst is because Lawrence Kasdan's original ending exists...the one where Luke turns to the Dark dons Vader's helmet and "becomes the enemy the Rebellion needs to unite against". And yes, not only is that real, but J.W. Rinzler's Making of ROTJ book has the actual story meeting transcript where that was proposed.

Gosh, I can't believe this is the same brain trust who co-wrote The Force Awakens.
 
Patty Jenkins has confirmed that her Rogue Squadron movie has re-entered development,

tl;dr
Top Gun: Maverick has had more staying power than anticipated and now its time to donut steel while ignoring why audiences liked a movie that didn't turn its protagonist into a complete prolapsing cuck or spend two hours cringe-preaching diversity and women as infallible.

I do give leniency to child actors. I do think it’s sometimes douchey to nominate a child for a Razzie (see last year’s Razzie). Of course child actors can be great, like Haley Joel Osment, Julia Butters, Abigail Breslin, etc., but I don’t fault them much for a less-than-stellar performance.

Part of is "how child are we talking here?" and "how much is this actor and performance shoved in our face?"
but if its a literal child, I get attacking the film, the directors, the adults but not the kid. Unless they are doing Thunberg levels of smug self insertion.


The other part is Lucas was making Star Wars movies. The SE just a couple years before made Lucas tens of millions at the box office and even more in merch and advertising tie-ins. Lucas had fuck-it money and could have gotten anyone he wanted - he chose JL.
If he didn't like something about his chosen actors, he could have gotten acting coaches, different directors, any sort of consultant he wanted.
Therefore, its pretty clear that Lucas got the performance he wanted from the actor he chose. Any flaws or failures in Lloyd or his character I chalk up to Lucas and Lucas alone.
 
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Patty Jenkins has confirmed that her Rogue Squadron movie has re-entered development, with her taking up scriptwriting duties. I would hasten to remind everyone that the last script she penned was Wonder Woman '84...the quip-tacular trashfire where Diana molests a stranger that has her ex-boyfriend's soul trapped inside, and ditches the sword from previous films because Jenkins thought it was "too aggressive".

What I don't get is if they insist on a female director. For what we then have to assume will be a brave female lead fighter squadron. Why not hire Kathryn Bigelow? She's far more proven at being able to pull it off.

To pull off these kinds of films, whether war, sci-fi, fantasy or whatever. You need attention to detail and making the world seem consistent and real. One of the problems a lot of female-led projects in these areas have is that women in general don't care about these autistic details and are more just characters and emotions. Not everyone but as a generalisation. It's why that Obi-Wan series is so shit. The details or realities of anything happening were out the window. Clearly, they did not give a shit about world-building or anything making sense. Just what was happening with the characters in the moment. The actual lack of attention to detail in the show is astonishing. Yet the director is perfectly fine when directing another person's show when that is taken care of.

Good genre content needs compelling characters and their stories. It also needs consistent and detailed world-building. The problem is some people only get concerned with the character stuff. Ignoring the world building, the detail and the attention to detail that actually makes it good. So when they're in charge of these projects, they don't pay attention to that, assume it's all nonsense and they produce absolute crap. It's why a lot of female led genre content fails, because women in general care less about this shit.

I assume Kathleen Kenedy fits into this group. Which is why the trilogy was allowed to be a mess, as she doesn't know nor care for the world building or consistency aspect. Also to be fair, it's not just women, just in general. You have female creatives like JK Rowling who care about the details. You also have men who don't like that twat that did the Wheel of Time series.

We've all had conversations about popular genre stuff with men and women. Such as Game of Thrones or Star Wars. We've all observed that men by and large care and pay way more attention to the details and realities of the world building. Women way less do. I was once discussing the sequels with a legit PHD in something like Women's representation in media. Someone I know in the real world. She loved The Last Jedi. It was just after it came out. Literally, she considered nothing about the plot making sense or where it fit with in the larger context. It was just me laying out why it was bad from a plot point of view, from a logic point of view. She agreed with my points, but had literally never ever considered or paid attention to that. It was just a superficial going along for the ride with the characters.

Women, am I right?

EDIT: I was listening to a podcast with the guy who made Masters of the Air. He talked about spending a year writing a hundred of pages long document of research from 30 + books before he could even start to write the show. You need real male autism. Can you just imagine the laziness of Patty Jenkin's fighter pilot script? What's the bet it'll just be destroying another Death Star?
 
And there are actually people out there that believe that Return of the Jedi "suffered" because of Kurtz's absence, when he had retarded ideas like this.
And now Star Wars is and will forever be pozzed "literally me" forced representation bullshit.

At least we still have Dune. Frank Herbert knew well enough not to trade the soul of his franchise to marketers and accountants. Main characters fucking die in Dune. Can you even imagine?

Bittersweet IS dark and brooding.
You're a faggot. Kill yourself.

women in general don't care about these autistic details
Women, in general, do a lot of self-insertion bullshit. They have a tendency to make every character a reflection of themselves.

That's why a lot of the ST and modern Star Wars isn't good. It's mostly written as a kind of endorphin response to things you recognize from the OT, from Wookiepedia, and "muh lore."

All stories are written to be for "literally me" viewers. It's why Rey is basically female Luke Skywalker: forced representation bullshit so that girls can say "literally me." That's why Filoni does his wolves--its purely because he likes his wolves and therefore so should you.

Also, notice they do magic bullshit to put Anakin into the Asohka show so that fans can hoop and haller at "Literally Darth Vader on my TV screen!!!"

It's all just tiny pockets of "literally me" and "I know what that is" Wookiepedia Easter Egg hunts scattered about another generic plot involving Imperials fighting against Rebels and developing some end-of-the-galaxy scheme.
 
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You're a faggot. Kill yourself.
LOL triggered much?

At least we still have Dune. Frank Herbert knew well enough not to trade the soul of his franchise to marketers and accountants. Main characters fucking die in Dune. Can you even imagine?
And? Main characters die in movies and literature all the time. That's nothing special. Lucas was actually bucking the trend when he decided to NOT have a main character die. Everyone expected or wanted him to kill one of the main characters, just to ''add to the tension'', and he refused to budge, because he wanted an optimistic story.

Whenever I hear about people who are so shocked that main characters can die in a series, I think they just haven't broadened their media taste that much. It's like meeting that one guy who gets shocked that in Game of Thrones, a main character died. It just makes me laugh my ass off.

Women, in general, do a lot of self-insertion bullshit. They have a tendency to make every character a reflection of themselves.
It's not only them. Authors have a tendency for that, too. Or has the fact that the first movie's main character is a common man farmboy named Luke Skywalker escaped your notice? Dude's name sounds like Lucas and he's a guy designed to be relatable to the average Joe. The central character of ANH was not a princess, not a space warlord, not a wizard, nor a cowboy with a price on his head, just some run-of-the-mill farmboy whose first name sounds a little bit like the author's last name.
 
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Any flaws or failures in Lloyd or his character I chalk up to Lucas and Lucas alone.
The line that always gets me is his "Yipee!!"

There's the super awkward way Jake says it coupled with the fact that, yes, he is definitely reading from a script that Lucas wrote.

Anakin's entire attitude, as Lucas has written him, seems more akin to a cheerful, middle-class geek kid building a bicycle in his dad's garage more than a mentally disturbed slave boy to a single mother out in the desert.

And to think, he still sold his hope-filled, young, wide-yed, hip, Pollyanna-ish optimism to the empire big corpo.
 
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