Not Just Bikes / r/fuckcars / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

[Xarpho's Return]

Live in the city. Don't like the actual walking around that much but the sheer density and number of locations fires my brain neurons. I'm always thinking things like "how many people live/work here?" or "wonder how many of these apartments/offices are actually occupied?" While it's not peaceful or fun to walk around, being crowded and ugly, it has a different kind of charm.

See, I get that. For example, it's always fun to ride in a freeway right when night has hit but things haven't shut down yet, where you can look at office towers and with a naked eye, see office lights and ceiling tiles, where shop and restaurant signage lights up even if it's getting near closing time, and highway infrastructure towers overhead. Love me that sort of thing, simple as.

Problem is, cities are a lot more than just interesting window dressing. The mechanics are corrupt to the core, the novelty wears off quickly on the ground, everyone is either a soulless bugman, a pretentious douchebag, or a third worlder. There's more people than ever, and you never feel more alone.

 

[Atypical Dog]

See, I get that. For example, it's always fun to ride in a freeway right when night has hit but things haven't shut down yet, where you can look at office towers and with a naked eye, see office lights and ceiling tiles, where shop and restaurant signage lights up even if it's getting near closing time, and highway infrastructure towers overhead. Love me that sort of thing, simple as.

Problem is, cities are a lot more than just interesting window dressing. The mechanics are corrupt to the core, the novelty wears off quickly on the ground, everyone is either a soulless bugman, a pretentious douchebag, or a third worlder. There's more people than ever, and you never feel more alone.

Yeah, it's nice when you're at the mall right when it opens or just as it's closing down and everyone's going home - not so much when you consider how many people are funneled through that transport hub because it's "convenient" and "efficient" to have lines out the door and people commuting an hour or two from work to home and back.

As a Third Worlder (still in my third world country, mind, haven't moved to the West), this makes me happy that I decided not to try my luck over there. I'd probably have to move to an apartment since I have a pretty corporate-ladder education, and couldn't come in doing something more rural/suburban, so I'd have to suffer.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

Yeah, it's nice when you're at the mall right when it opens or just as it's closing down and everyone's going home - not so much when you consider how many people are funneled through that transport hub because it's "convenient" and "efficient" to have lines out the door and people commuting an hour or two from work to home and back.

Traffic times are really exaggerated from urbanists. In reality, it's maybe 7 minutes to the store and 30 minutes to work.

 

[Atypical Dog]

Traffic times are really exaggerated from urbanists. In reality, it's maybe 7 minutes to the store and 30 minutes to work.

I have a somewhat unique situation in that regard - I live here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Manila

A very dense city with a working population of over 10 million, where car or bus commutes to Makati from within the Metro can take an hour or more (max) during rush hour.

Rappler article on TomTom's report. Since they report averages, I'd consider it relatively understated - there are some truly painful areas in Manila, Makati, and Taguig (BGC) which are central business districts, and the giant ring road/bottleneck that is EDSA, which are also the most-commonly traveled areas.

Some guy on Quora talking about his commutes.

I agree with you that in most places the urbanists are overstating their case, but in incredibly dense cities I think some of their points ring true. That, and like a kid growing out of last year's clothes, the Philippines is very bad at building out infrastructure.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

I have a somewhat unique situation in that regard - I live here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Manila

A very dense city with a working population of over 10 million, where car or bus commutes to Makati from within the Metro can take an hour or more (max) during rush hour.

Rappler article on TomTom's report. Since they report averages, I'd consider it relatively understated - there are some truly painful areas in Manila, Makati, and Taguig (BGC) which are central business districts, and the giant ring road/bottleneck that is EDSA, which are also the most-commonly traveled areas.

Some guy on Quora talking about his commutes.

I agree with you that in most places the urbanists are overstating their case, but in incredibly dense cities I think some of their points ring true. That, and like a kid growing out of last year's clothes, the Philippines is very bad at building out infrastructure.

When urbanists talk about commuting and infrastructure and induced demand and all that, they're mostly talking about American cities, which are, in addition to having better highway infrastructure to begin with, built entirely differently.

I live in America, and when I was talking about the lights from the highway I was talking about Houston (and to a lesser extent other cities traveled, including Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Orlando, and even Temple). I'm not sure if there's any other equivalent in other countries or if it's a uniquely American thing (maybe Canada and Australia). My hometown doesn't really have that, partly because the highway was built to go around the town and didn't get a lot of the same development. There was the mall and a few things around it but that's it. (In terms of non-commercial development, there's a chemical plant to the east of Houston that looks very Blade Runner-esque at night).

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I have a somewhat unique situation in that regard - I live here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Manila

A very dense city with a working population of over 10 million, where car or bus commutes to Makati from within the Metro can take an hour or more (max) during rush hour.

Rappler article on TomTom's report. Since they report averages, I'd consider it relatively understated - there are some truly painful areas in Manila, Makati, and Taguig (BGC) which are central business districts, and the giant ring road/bottleneck that is EDSA, which are also the most-commonly traveled areas.

Some guy on Quora talking about his commutes.

I agree with you that in most places the urbanists are overstating their case, but in incredibly dense cities I think some of their points ring true. That, and like a kid growing out of last year's clothes, the Philippines is very bad at building out infrastructure.

I think that's more of a PH problem. Other Asian cities have similar issues in dense, major cities like Delhi/New Delhi, Karachi, and such where infrastructure planning is an afterthought. At least pinoys have a sense of traffic rules and follow semaphores unlike the savages elsewhere where tuktuks are prevalent.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

As a Third Worlder (still in my third world country, mind, haven't moved to the West), this makes me happy that I decided not to try my luck over there. I'd probably have to move to an apartment since I have a pretty corporate-ladder education, and couldn't come in doing something more rural/suburban, so I'd have to suffer.

Just based on your writing in four posts, you're eminently qualified for any number of moderately decently paid jobs in rural or suburban areas. Bugmen like to pretend everything happens in the cities, but there are tons of corporate-style jobs in suburbs and near the edges.

The main killer is people find a job, move near the job, and ten years later get a new job, and decide not to move, and so start the Big Commute. The bugman solution is to make all housing and people interchangeable so that if you move jobs, you move to your commieblock apartment near that job. Perfection!

 

[Atypical Dog]

When urbanists talk about commuting and infrastructure and induced demand and all that, they're mostly talking about American cities, which are, in addition to having better highway infrastructure to begin with, built entirely differently.

Amateurs. They should come here and try our traffic, see how they like it. We could actually use some of their urbanism in our planning, I feel, because we've got the density for it.

I think that's more of a PH problem. Other Asian cities have similar issues in dense, major cities like Delhi/New Delhi, Karachi, and such where infrastructure planning is an afterthought. At least pinoys have a sense of traffic rules and follow semaphores unlike the savages elsewhere where tuktuks are prevalent.

We've got our own version of tuktuks - the tricycle sidecar. I'm interested in hearing how much wilder traffic gets, but yes. In most cases here, people follow traffic rules and enforcers when they come out and stop you or wave you through.

No guarantees about Cavite, though.

Just based on your writing in four posts, you're eminently qualified for any number of moderately decently paid jobs in rural or suburban areas. Bugmen like to pretend everything happens in the cities, but there are tons of corporate-style jobs in suburbs and near the edges.

Moderately-paid jobs, you say? Converting back, that's a fortune! I've already got a pretty good gig here, and cost of living is in my favor, but it's always an option.

I can use multi-quote. I fucked up thumbnails the first time and have to have a mod come in to fix it, though. 1/2 on my Kiwi Farmer cert.

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

Amateurs. They should come here and try our traffic, see how they like it. We could actually use some of their urbanism in our planning, I feel, because we've got the density for it.

Now you know the double problem - cities that can easily build transit build roads because they're not dense enough for transit.

And cities that are dense enough for transit can't afford to build it, because you displace too many people (or burrow underground where things cost infinity billion dollars per mile).

The real solution is one they don't want to admit works - build transit to *new places* and let those develop over time.

 

[Atypical Dog]

Now you know the double problem - cities that can easily build transit build roads because they're not dense enough for transit.

And cities that are dense enough for transit can't afford to build it, because you displace too many people (or burrow underground where things cost infinity billion dollars per mile).

The real solution is one they don't want to admit works - build transit to *new places* and let those develop over time.

Build all the buildings the same height with flat roofs, and then build walkways on top of the roofs. Flawless plan, you could even put little electric-powered pods on rails up there.

I kid but there's a practical version of this - just build a second sidewalk right over the sidewalk. Doesn't really solve your mass transit problems, but the best places. In those cases, though, the scale is too small to make a dent, and would involve a lot of people walking. Trains, buses, or just plain living near where you work are it, sadly.

Not like the country isn't also going for new places - we're trying to do a Sydney and build a new city to hold the central government and building out a big passenger rail line to there, which happens to cross over the most populated parts of the country outside of Manila.

If they don't run into delays, I might get to use these!

 

[reptile baht spaniard rid]

a big passenger rail line to there

ah I love me some transit, where the "background" section of a proposed line shows a steam train:

Yeah public transit gets built real fast - if they start today, your grand kids might get to ride it!

 

[Atypical Dog]

ah I love me some transit, where the "background" section of a proposed line shows a steam train:

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Yeah public transit gets built real fast - if they start today, your grand kids might get to ride it!

They are, after all, resurrecting some Spanish Colonization-era rail lines. Gotta invoke that h e r i t a g e!

I like your estimate about grandkids. Until then, I'll keep driving like a true carbrain.

 

[quaawaa]

THEY'VE FOUND THE THREAD!!!!




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[S.C.U.D.]

This guy has it pretty much right.

There's always going to be people gossiping and making fun of you, don't concern yourself with them or else you'll go mad. Obviously this guy is a retarded bugman but he's giving them the proper advice to just ignore us.

It'd be nice if they read the thread critically and thought long and hard about their own dogma, and perhaps sought new perspective to further mature their worldview, but I'm not expecting a single one to do that. They'll just go back to their hugbox and scream about pickup trucks.

 

[Faggotdog Niggertail]

Apparently they only have a few thousand logins throughout the entire day on their entire website. Our movement has tens of millions supporters.

I'm fucking dying at this one line. "They talk about us more! We're bigger!"

 

[Markass the Worst]

THEY'VE FOUND THE THREAD!!!!
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One of the best parts of writing Kiwifarms threads is seeing their subjects react to them and throw a shitfit. This is the fourth thread of mine with confirmed reactions from the subjects and it brings a smile to my face

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"We just want to walk to a grocery store and good pub"
There's plenty of places you can do that but issue is all bugmen screech about them being car infested shitholes.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

The real solution is one they don't want to admit works - build transit to *new places* and let those develop over time.

I'm not sure of a good example of that. Sometimes China builds out rail to new places and lets those develops but Chinese development is not a good roadmap for anything.

I kid but there's a practical version of this - just build a second sidewalk right over the sidewalk. Doesn't really solve your mass transit problems, but the best places. In those cases, though, the scale is too small to make a dent, and would involve a lot of people walking. Trains, buses, or just plain living near where you work are it, sadly.

They have that in some big cities, using underground concourses or above-ground skywalks to create a "second downtown" in the downtown areas. There's stuff like that in Houston. Don't go expecting a world-class shopping experience, these usually have inexpensive restaurants and newsstands. Urbanists don't like 'em because it's not "on the street" and ne'er-do-wells don't like 'em because security takes care of everything, which the urbanists sympathize with...despite being an entirely car-free area (and connects with a residential areas).

THEY'VE FOUND THE THREAD!!!!

A lot of that is just being butthurt that people are criticizing them in a way they can't downvote or censor (many such cases). Too bad none of them will actually read the posts though that refute a lot of the shit.

I don't think the board's tranny jannies will allow even screencaps of posts from Kiwi Farms to there. In any case, welcome /r/fuckcars lurkers!

"We just want to walk to a grocery store and good pub"
There's plenty of places you can do that but issue is all bugmen screech about them being car infested shitholes.

The ol' motte-and-bailey argument raises its head again.

 

[blue gopher snakes]

Lol if they’re so much bigger and badder, they shouldn’t have any trouble raising $200k real quick like we did, then? You could buy a lot of cargo bikes for that kind of cheddar, just saying.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

THEY'VE FOUND THE THREAD!!!!
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It took the bugmen long enough to find this thread. Did someone shine a light in their little hovel causing them to scatter and find us?



Hey redditards, if you're so big and mighty as you claim with a movement that has the momentum of a locomotive, feel free to join us and have an actually free discussion without shitty mods removing anything that goes against your dogmatic beliefs. Yes, this is a game of chicken and you are scared chickens!

 

[LaxerBRO]

THEY'VE FOUND THE THREAD!!!!

Funny, aren't 15 minute cities often paired with traffic "filters" that charge the equivalent of half a days wages to cross the zone by car?

Don't you want to take away car lanes and reduce streets of one lane per direction of travel thereby making travel using a car more time consuming and expensive?

Isn't this whole 15 minute thing something that is pushed by urbanists and teenagers that aren't working class?

Has it occured to you that people that work at a paper mill, oil refinery, heavy industry, etc. might not want to work within 15 minutes of their job?

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Why is Jason not visiting India, specifically a working class area of Mumbai?

Density and increased ridership is good right? Diversity is good, right?

Come on, live at leave five whole years in a 250 sq ft apartment in Mumbai and take the train to work instead of WFH.

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The group has flair for Commie Commuter and Jason Has pushed Second Thought a Commie / Socialist.

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The group NJB / Fuck Cars has endorsed eco- terrorism. Just like ELF supporters are racial liberals so are you.


Earth Liberation Front (ELF) arson attack on housing in Washington state.