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US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians
- Thread starter SeniorFuckFace
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- Joined
- Nov 12, 2019
you serious
it was never a common old standard but, Obummer's executive order (record-keeping order)
(most of Trump's Executive orders were repealed/ignored)
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
Somehow I think "He didn't violate the law but he violated President Obama's commands" is going to cut it. Sadly, judge, coward, won't allow a motion to dismiss no matter how blatantly obvious it becomes that Smith has no case.
- Joined
- May 17, 2019
A / L
Special counsel blasts judge’s jury instruction request in Trump documents case
In perhaps prosecutors’ strongest rebuke yet to how Judge Aileen Cannon has handled the classified documents case against former President Donald Trump, special counsel Jack Smith said in court filings late Tuesday evening that the judge had ordered briefings based on a “fundamentally flawed” understanding of the case that has “no basis in law or fact.”
Smith’s team harshly critiqued Cannon’s request for jury instructions that embraced Trump’s claims that he had broad authority to take classified government documents and said it would seek an appeals court review if she accepted the former president’s arguments about his record-retention powers.
In an unusual order last month, Cannon asked attorneys on the classified documents case to submit briefs on potential jury instructions defining terms of the Espionage Act, under which Trump is charged over mishandling 32 classified records. Specifically, Cannon asked the special counsel and defense attorneys to write two versions of proposed jury instructions.
The first scenario would instruct a jury to assess whether each of the records that Trump is accused of retaining fell into the categories of “personal” or “presidential” as laid out by the Presidential Records Act, a post-Watergate law that governs how White House records belonging to the government are to be handled at the end of a presidency.
The second version Cannon asked for assumes that as president, Trump had complete authority to take records he wanted from the White House, which would make it nearly impossible for prosecutors to secure a conviction. If she were to institute this sort of instruction, Smith’s team said, “the Government must be provided with an opportunity to seek prompt appellate review.”
“Both scenarios rest on an unstated and fundamentally flawed legal premise — namely, that the Presidential Records Act and in particular its distinction between ‘personal’ and ‘Presidential’ records, determines whether a former President is ‘authorized,’ under the Espionage Act, to possess highly classified documents and store them in an unsecure facility,” the special counsel’s team wrote.
If allowed to be presented to a jury, prosecutors said, “that premise would distort the trial.”
Cannon’s request came days after she heard arguments over whether the Presidential Records Act granted the former president broad authority to characterize any record from his time in the White House as personal. Trump’s attorneys claim he did have that authority and have asked the judge to throw out the criminal charges.
In their own proposed jury instructions filed Tuesday evening, Trump’s defense attorneys suggested that, in the first hypothetical, Cannon tell trial jurors that Trump was “authorized” by the PRA to “possess a category of documents defined as ‘personal records,’ both during and after his term in office.”
In the second scenario, defense attorneys wrote that “there can be no appropriate jury instructions relating to factual issues … because that scenario forecloses prosecution of President Trump.”
Trump’s proposal also challenges Smith’s ability to prove the former president kept the documents “knowingly,” meaning he was aware it was against the law. “Medical science has not yet devised an instrument which can record what was in one’s mind in the distant past,” Trump’s attorneys wrote.
Prosecutors have repeatedly said that PRA is not relevant to the charges against Trump, as the conduct he is accused of happened after his term as president ended. Trump’s claim that he deemed the records personal are “pure fiction,” invented once the National Archives had retrieved boxes with classified information from Mar-a-Lago two years after he left office, they wrote Tuesday.
Their new filing sheds light on some of the evidence that investigators have collected about Trump’s record-keeping habits during his presidency. According to the prosecutors’ account, there is no evidence that Trump designated the relevant classified records as personal when he left the White House, and the prosecutors said he got the idea that he did have such power many months later, from the leader of a conservative legal organization.
Cannon appeared skeptical that the charges should be outright dismissed during the hearing, but she said that Trump’s attorneys were making “forceful” arguments that may be appropriate to present to a trial jury.
Still, Cannon has not made an official ruling on the request to dismiss the case, and her request for hypothetical jury instructions appear to show that the judge is still considering how, or if, the PRA fits into the case at large.
Smith’s team harshly critiqued Cannon’s request for jury instructions that embraced Trump’s claims that he had broad authority to take classified government documents and said it would seek an appeals court review if she accepted the former president’s arguments about his record-retention powers.
In an unusual order last month, Cannon asked attorneys on the classified documents case to submit briefs on potential jury instructions defining terms of the Espionage Act, under which Trump is charged over mishandling 32 classified records. Specifically, Cannon asked the special counsel and defense attorneys to write two versions of proposed jury instructions.
The first scenario would instruct a jury to assess whether each of the records that Trump is accused of retaining fell into the categories of “personal” or “presidential” as laid out by the Presidential Records Act, a post-Watergate law that governs how White House records belonging to the government are to be handled at the end of a presidency.
The second version Cannon asked for assumes that as president, Trump had complete authority to take records he wanted from the White House, which would make it nearly impossible for prosecutors to secure a conviction. If she were to institute this sort of instruction, Smith’s team said, “the Government must be provided with an opportunity to seek prompt appellate review.”
“Both scenarios rest on an unstated and fundamentally flawed legal premise — namely, that the Presidential Records Act and in particular its distinction between ‘personal’ and ‘Presidential’ records, determines whether a former President is ‘authorized,’ under the Espionage Act, to possess highly classified documents and store them in an unsecure facility,” the special counsel’s team wrote.
If allowed to be presented to a jury, prosecutors said, “that premise would distort the trial.”
Cannon’s request came days after she heard arguments over whether the Presidential Records Act granted the former president broad authority to characterize any record from his time in the White House as personal. Trump’s attorneys claim he did have that authority and have asked the judge to throw out the criminal charges.
In their own proposed jury instructions filed Tuesday evening, Trump’s defense attorneys suggested that, in the first hypothetical, Cannon tell trial jurors that Trump was “authorized” by the PRA to “possess a category of documents defined as ‘personal records,’ both during and after his term in office.”
In the second scenario, defense attorneys wrote that “there can be no appropriate jury instructions relating to factual issues … because that scenario forecloses prosecution of President Trump.”
Trump’s proposal also challenges Smith’s ability to prove the former president kept the documents “knowingly,” meaning he was aware it was against the law. “Medical science has not yet devised an instrument which can record what was in one’s mind in the distant past,” Trump’s attorneys wrote.
Prosecutors have repeatedly said that PRA is not relevant to the charges against Trump, as the conduct he is accused of happened after his term as president ended. Trump’s claim that he deemed the records personal are “pure fiction,” invented once the National Archives had retrieved boxes with classified information from Mar-a-Lago two years after he left office, they wrote Tuesday.
Their new filing sheds light on some of the evidence that investigators have collected about Trump’s record-keeping habits during his presidency. According to the prosecutors’ account, there is no evidence that Trump designated the relevant classified records as personal when he left the White House, and the prosecutors said he got the idea that he did have such power many months later, from the leader of a conservative legal organization.
Cannon appeared skeptical that the charges should be outright dismissed during the hearing, but she said that Trump’s attorneys were making “forceful” arguments that may be appropriate to present to a trial jury.
Still, Cannon has not made an official ruling on the request to dismiss the case, and her request for hypothetical jury instructions appear to show that the judge is still considering how, or if, the PRA fits into the case at large.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
They'd rather take commands from negro jesus than follow the law. Obummer probably has blackmail of them or knows people who know where the bodies are. Metaphorical and physical.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2020
Trump's stance on war has always been blow shit up from the air because it's cheaper and more visually impressive (read: badass) than marching around the sand dodging RPGs
If I see one more person huffing copium about Israel losing support I'm gonna die of laughter. The script of this war has played out exactly the same as all the others, Israel is losing support, blah blah blah, everyone already hates or is turning against Israel, blah blah blah, nothing actually changes. The State Department is only trying to get into a pissing match with Netanyahu because the State Department has always been more Arabist, Biden is too old to control policy, and, far more importantly than the first two, because the Democrats' own import Muslims golem has turned against them. After the election regardless of who wins the alleged widening rift between Israel and the US will disappear
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2020
I can't get over how much this fucker looks like Saruman. It just fits.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
I hope this precipitates another motion to dismiss.
You don't get to try one president for violating another's Executive Orders as if that's law.
Has there been a motion to dismiss asserting the next president is not allowed to rescind the executive privilege of the previous?
It's basically the sitting president declaring the previous election and the authority that came with it null and void.
No sitting president should be allowed to nullify the authority of the electorate just because they don't like who the people previously chose.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2013
That seems planned. If Trump gets in and the reserves are still depleted then fuck you, you voted wrong. If TPTB manage to get Biden back in it's just par for the course and we get 4 more years of a bunch of nepo babies trying to get control of the puppet in chief
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
That's a stupid plan for the commies then, since Trump dropped the price of gas below $2 his entire previous term, and the oil prices were so low Russia couldn't finance shit.
Trump could fill the SPR for less than the price per barrel of water once in.
He tried that in the early days of the scamdemic and was roadblocked. "Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" basically sums up a lot of the Never Trumpers M.O.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2023
I don't think Cannon is a coward, I think she's a judge that takes her duty seriously and is very aware of the political bias from both the DOJ and the politically biased judges on the 11th Circuit. While she may have a relatively clear and strong case for dismissal on a number of grounds, she knows that it will go up immediately to a DOJ-friendly appellate court that will try their best to manipulate the case in violation of Trump's rights. After all, that happened previously in this very same case regarding the special master issue.
So, instead she is turning Smith's aggressive fast-and-loose style against him in the simplest and most legally defensible way. She is following the rules that a judge should follow, unlike the DC justices that just bend the rules and paper over the actions of the DOJ in the name of speed and a pre-election trial date. If she dismissed at first blush, the 11th Circuit could just handwave an 'assumption that Jack Smith has proper grounds' and foreclose any future motions or discovery. By asking all these questions and forcing Jack to put all this ridiculous shit on paper, in motions, she is building a detailed file that becomes harder and harder to defend at the appellate level. This way, there isn't a path for the 11th circuit to just paper over all the bullshit if/when he tries something sneaky, as she's exposing it fully for everyone to see.
Frankly, all of these cases are extremely complex in the legal sense of involved laws/defenses, of first impression (nobody's done it before), and rife with issues (grand jury abuse, selective prosecutions, etc). All of them should require potentially years of legal work between indictment and trial, assuming they get there. Judge Cannon is doing exactly what a judge should do, which is maintaining the orderly system of justice by fair adjudication of systems and principles, which takes time and effort. For this, she is accused of being a Trump loyalist or corrupt, meanwhile the judges in NY/DC are literally paid by the DNC and that is excused, but if the Left didn't have double standards they'd have none at all.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2016
Dude if Trump actually gets in federal drilling permits might actually get stamped and we'll go back to being a net exporter, the SPR will recover just fine.
Biden's been using it as his way to keep his disastrous foreign policies from hitting too hard at home without pissing off the green wing of his party. He won't buy now because oil's still pretty damned expensive and he's got a semi-hostile Congress capable of reaming him over bad spending.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
I agree these cases are complex, but not legally.
The cases are 100% corrupt, ignore the law, and further, come from a violation of the constitution in which one administration "revokes" the authority the previous administration had DURING that previous administration, including its decision to designate presidential records.
If Trump tried to declare Obamacare Null and Void by "un-signing" it in the name of the current presidency, the uproar would blow the earth out of orbit, but that its what is being done in this docs case with Trump's Original Classification Authority and authority under the PRA.
The real "complexity" is the good guys trying to navigate the corruption.
The past 36 months have revealed the necessity for a massive term-long impeachment inquiry across the entire federal bench, including several "conservative" supreme court justices, over what they have been aiding and abetting, which will likely and sadly never come.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2019
Without PL-ing, most of Israel’s “cutting edge” research is really just subsidized American research tied together with foreign aid and massive tax breaks to large tech/MIC firms (the silicon research you allude to is Intel’s fab in Kiryat Gat*, which doesn’t do research as much as manufacture Intel’s current product lineup). Still a worthy target, but it’s basically a Hebrew live-fire test range for America.
*Strangely, that city has been spared from most of the missile attacks. The tin-foil-hat on me thinks whoever orders the Palis around wants to preserve this tech asset.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
Doesn't matter where the financing is coming from if the product is in Israeli custody and the human capital doing it are on Israeli soil.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law domestically, on the geopolitical stage it's 10/10ths.
Imagine Bibi getting fed up with Biden's illegitimate regime and inviting Xi Xinping and a crew of reverse engineers into the fab.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2022
Project 2025 is trying to do that. And the mere mention of it's name causes TDS people to slide into frothing rage.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2021
Honestly, BiBi should just cut to the chase and invite King Chink like he wants to. China has been itching to penetrate the area for ages since the Belt and Road project was truly scuppered. He just wants to esculate the area anyway.
Let the stupid sand countries fight and dance for their paymasters China, Russia, and the USA. At least it will be entertaining
Let the stupid sand countries fight and dance for their paymasters China, Russia, and the USA. At least it will be entertaining
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2022
I wish them luck getting the necessary senate votes to give that teeth.
A repeat of the Judicial Act of 1802 would be more legislatively feasible, but even that I think is not possible given the electoral corruption added to the 40% of the senate GOP who are cucks.
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