Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[No. 7 cat]

Again, times Putin invaded countries while Trump was in office and threating to bomb Moscow in retaliation if he did: 0

Is even known that Trump threatened Putin?

Now Zelensky himself confirmed that Trump didn't extort him over Hunter Biden stuff, but Putin was also preparing his war of conquest. While it opened very badly operationally, constructing a war economy in a country that has to import every complex component takes time and seems to be working for now. Grey import channels and other means of building stocks (via Iran, DPRK and clients) take time to set up. Now one notable thing is that Putin now seems to believe his propaganda about the Fallen West so perhaps he decided to launch hid war a bit early. There was a seeming conjunction of an trivial and soft Zelensky who wooed his pro RU, Party of the Regions opponents during the Pres vote, the doddery confidence draining Biden, timid Scholz and deeply insecure Macron.

We won't know the 'why now' of the war for years short of Putin somehow being compelled to explain it. Perhaps Trump did threaten, but there's a paucity of the definite.

WaPo has been pure dogshit in its war coverage. Perhaps like his fellow oligarch Musk, Bezos wants an early return to Russia. The Carlos Slim NYT hasn't impressed either and perhaps the owner wants an early return to the RU market.

 

[Least Concern]

I remind you again:
Ukraine invasions under trump: 0
Ukraine invasion under biden: 1

Put "Ukraine invasions under Obama: 1" at the top of it.

 

[No. 7 cat]

Put "Ukraine invasions under Obama: 1" at the top of it.

Obama's passivity and pandering towards Putin's sulks over Poland in NATO or the dogshit sanctions of 2014 eased the first stage of the war for Putin.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Borisoglebsk Aviation Training Center for training flight personnel of front-line bomber and attack aviation in the Voronezh region getting droned earlier this morning:

 

[TJT]

Burned through what was still functional. Probably still large amounts of hulks and cannibalized bmps/tanks.

Fact theyre using cheapo chinese golf carts for battlefield movers is the surest sign they have. Also seeing videos now with 20+ dudes crammed onto a single piece of armor, almost certainly another sign of depleted armor inventory.

Uhh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_desant

It's stupid, but it's been a thing for as long as tanks have been around.

 

[Foltest]

Obama's passivity and pandering towards Putin's sulks over Poland in NATO or the dogshit sanctions of 2014 eased the first stage of the war for Putin.

Obama foreign policy was shit.
My boy Mitt was right.

 

[Vince McMahon]

My boy Mitt was right.

Imagine saying that 16 years ago...

Imagine that 2008 was 16 years ago.

 

[MG-34]

Imagine saying that 16 years ago...

Imagine that 2008 was 16 years ago.

Mitt was 2012.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

RAM II, FPV, and, most notably, Switchblade 600 strikes on Russian air defense assets:

RAM X drone hits a Russian 2S6 "Tunguska" air defense system:

 

[Vince McMahon]

Mitt was 2012.

True. Just 12 years. Still. Can you imagine telling someone "Mitt was right"?

 

[World in Scarlet]

Russian turtletank with full anti-drone shell:

The prototype was allegedly destroyed, but it was quite successful in that it was able to return to its hangar after combat.

link

Close-up:

 

[Ghostse]

I have questions:
1. Wouldn't it tank (pun unintended) visibility? Like pretty sure have more than 25 degrees of sight is beneficial. Or are Russian tanks only expected to go forward like it's WW1?
2. Wouldn't it reduce weaponary to pure cannon, and one that once again, is insanely limited in targeting?
3. Wouldn't a drone that get through the large gap in the shield be much more lethal due to the enclosed explosion?
4. Wouldn't this tank be incredibly vulnerable to infantry chucking explosives from the side?

If you combo the cope shed + EMF bukkake generator, it could be reasonably effective at keeping off easy drone kills. The open ends of the cope shed would let a human fly a drone in, but that means its got to get in, no dropping nades into hatches from 10 meters up. And while you can do some AI targeting, AI will have a hard time flying into the shed and not detentating against it.

For light exposives, the shed is thin, but has enough spacing that anything that isn't a penetrator will be kept far enough away. I am not an expert, but that metal doesn't look thick enough to hold up under anything with more balls than an RPG-7, and that's only because it'd make a hard surface for the detonator to strike.

Regarding encapsulated explosions, the short answer is no - the fore and rear being open means the pressure will just vent out the path of least resistance.

But as you point out, that's only thinking about drones or having nades lobbed at it. Any armor encounters and this thing will have the worst day imaginable as its turned into a SPG with a huge ass profile and zero visibility.

We won't know the 'why now' of the war for years short of Putin somehow being compelled to explain it. Perhaps Trump did threaten, but there's a paucity of the definite.

Yeah man its not like Trump green lit The utter annilihation of a few hundred Russian troops and arab allies. No no, getting pantsed on the world stage and having his generals hop on the red phone to beg for mercy is totally a thing Putin would let an underling do. That's def. how Putin runs his shop.

Take this "Trump is a Putin shill!" shit back to your cope cage with HHH who will slurp it up. When you step out the hugbox, maybe try not simping for the dude who had Ukraine invaded on his watch (Twice, technically) by calling the other guy a Putin agent.

Uhh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_desant

It's stupid, but it's been a thing for as long as tanks have been around.

Tank Taxi isn't bad. What is both A) the number of dudes packed onto the tank, and B) they are rolling through active artillery fire.

When you are just shuttling guys through rear-lines/small-arms fire only area, the speed of the tank is pretty good armor. Snipers are going to have a hard time getting a bead on a rapidly moving target. So if this was rolling through Belgrod or w/e with clowncar T-72s, it would look a little silly but its better than marching them and having them be worn out.

But in a combat zone, you shouldn't have more than a squad on there unless you're doing a full evac under fire type shit. Being on a tank is about the worse place for squishy humans to be with arty going off, because you are up and maximum exposed to pressure waves, shrap, and debris.
It is doubly stupid in the current conflict because if that tank does get into an armor duel, those guys are fucking boned. To say nothing of drones.

I mean granted the alternative when you are Russian is to be inside a BMP which on a good day might stop some of the less-lethal shrap instead of turning into a flaming death trap as the exit doors explode due to being filled with fuel.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Spain has put M60s up for sale:
Archive

The Spanish Ministry of Defense put up for sale M60 tanks for €47,000.

The announcement of the auction was published in the Official State Gazette (Agencia Estatal Boletín Oficial del Estado).

Tanks are sold from the Spanish Navy. They were used by the Spanish Marines.

The Tank Company of the Tercio de Armada group was armed with 16 tanks of this type.

The Army auctioned M60 tanks, which have not been used by the Spanish Marines for several years. The announcement does not specify the number of tanks participating in the public auction, but only notes that the starting price is €46,924.

The deadline for submitting documentation and proposals expires on April 22, and two days later, on the 24th, the submitted proposals will be opened.


The Navy is seeking advance bail of €9,384, 20% of the base tender price for M60 tanks.

The Tank Company of the Tercio de Armada airborne mechanized group received a batch of tanks in the M60A3TTS version in 1993.

M60A3TTS tanks were transferred from the United States Army arsenals to Germany.

These tanks were phased out after reaching the service life limit between 2010 and 2020.

As previously reported, in 2020, Ukraine offered Brazil an option to modernize the M60 tank from SE Malyshev Plant.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

An accurate Russian missile (Iskander?) hits a Ukrainian artillery scrapheap that's been sitting there for years, despite a now decade long ongoing conflict where the D-20s apparently have never been used besides for parts:

NAFO sisters, perhaps we got too cocky... Maybe Rossiya IS strong and now the eyebrow has finally been raised...

Spain has put M60s up for sale:
Archive

The fact those M60s were put up for sale and not donated (unlike the Leopards 2 which Spain has already provided Ukraine) means that not even Ukraine can see a real need for them; they will likely go to some banana republic instead. Maybe Israel or another third-party familiar with the M60s could modernize them.

 

[Ghostse]

The Spanish Ministry of Defense put up for sale M60 tanks for €47,000.

Alright, I'm calling my broker. Time to liquidate the 401(k).
No more being stuck in traffic for me.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

The fact those M60s were put up for sale and not donated (unlike the Leopards 2 which Spain has already provided Ukraine) means that not even Ukraine can see a real need for them; they will likely go to some banana republic instead. Maybe Israel or another third-party familiar with the M60s could modernize them.

Ukraine is not in a position to be picky on anything except for small arms. Granted Ukraine's pocket book isn't overflowing with cash and have to be very selective on getting the most bang for it's buck. So for those M60s there have to be a third party to buy, fix, and modernized and then donate them to Ukraine. As is just yanking off and meeting turrets and making them armor recovery vehicles is highly invaluable right now as AFU desperately need more of them.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

So for those M60s there have to be a third party to buy, fix, and modernized and then donate them to Ukraine. As is just yanking off and meeting turrets and making them armor recovery vehicles is highly invaluable right now as AFU desperately need more of them.

As far as I can tell, that's the general plan; supposedly several organizations which have been involved with buying, refurbishing, and donating things like the Leopard 1's & older APCs have something in the works. It's also possible that Rhinemetal (et. al) could scoop them up for further sale down the road once they're modernized.

Just for whatever reason Spain is going through the motions of putting them on the market, even though there's a pretty good chance most of them will end up in Ukraine. Although I guess it gives places that can't (or don't want to) send overt aid to Ukraine the chance to chip in & then ask NATO for some sweet discounts on new tanks & IFVs, since they still technically donated to Ukraine.

 

[Ghostse]

Ukraine is not in a position to be picky on anything except for small arms. Granted Ukraine's pocket book isn't overflowing with cash and have to be very selective on getting the most bang for it's buck. So for those M60s there have to be a third party to buy, fix, and modernized and then donate them to Ukraine. As is just yanking off and meeting turrets and making them armor recovery vehicles is highly invaluable right now as AFU desperately need more of them.

I mean on one hand they are M60A3s.
On the other hand they'd be going up against T-62s and T-72s. T-62/72 Manned by Slavs, mind you. How much tank do you really need?

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

I mean on one hand they are M60A3s.
On the other hand they'd be going up against T-62s and T-72s. T-62/72 Manned by Slavs, mind you. How much tank do you really need?

Octopus Tank preferably ths original manga version not the OVA version as it is big enough even the Russians can't miss it.

 

[No. 7 cat]

Yeah man its not like Trump green lit The utter annilihation of a few hundred Russian troops and arab allies. No no, getting pantsed on the world stage and having his generals hop on the red phone to beg for mercy is totally a thing Putin would let an underling do. That's def. how Putin runs his shop.

Crap.

Some Prigozhin hirelings (which Russia denied as soldiers) and Syrians auxies perished as a result of directly attacking US forces some years ago. Against that presently the GOP elderly man has made multiple pro Russian and a few mixed statements. Apart from the ambiguous Squeaker Johnson, Trump's strong supporters including the missing link (MTG) and the handjob women (Boebert) have made false and nasty (ad nasty as themselves) statements about Ukraine, statements that speak to the low quality of their humanity and decency.

I doubt Putin even thinks of the Syria incident. Anyhow they failed him and died and so don't matter.

Time passes, things change. Your failing old man (you just suppirt him, he isn't aware of you) is against Ukraine now while the DNC's old man provided materiel help (other help continues) until six months ago. Biden's mental decline has been long noted, but Trump now has made speeches and statements that would give Biden stiff competition in the dementia stakes. European NATO leaders are now creating a 100bn fund to support Ukraine if the orange con man becomes POTUS. I think they know what's happening.

You should do better than get excited over this. Perhaps age is having effects on you too for you must live in an alternate reality if you think Trump will seek anything other than a Ukrainian surrender. Given holmodor and present history, Ukraine won't surrender as Trump wants. Anyhow, try keep to the real world. Bittet partisan animus over a former and incidental position adopted by some failing old frontman isn't sane.