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- May 25, 2013
Damn, at least no one can say they didn't live full, interesting lives. I remember seeing them on documentaries.
Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial
- Thread starter jurassic bark
- Start date
Adrenochrome Dreams
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 1, 2022
That traumatises the mother. They must be allowed to see their own babies for closure, even if the defect is disguised as far as possible with a hat or whatever.
David Glowie
kiwifarms.net
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- Jul 4, 2022
They really did live their best lives. It was interesting how their personalities were so different.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
One of them became trans at some point.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2022
I'm curious how they died. For example, the twins who have two heads on one body (Abby and something?), obviously if their heart stops beating it's over for both of them. But these women were joined at the head so if one's body died, the other is just attached waiting for their own demise?
CrossedTubes
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- Dec 12, 2022
I was wondering about the name.
First trans person who really was born in the wrong body?
Even more 8008135
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- Dec 12, 2022
Abby and Brittany Hensel.
Essentially yes, though it depends on the manner of death. If conjoined twins are less "entangled" (such and Chang and Eng) doctors will often try an emergency separation so organ failure and decomposition toxins don't poison the remaining twin. For twins like Lori and Dori/George, that really isn't an option.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2013
Lori and Dori/George shared a lot of major blood vessels and 30% of their brain matter, so they couldn't be separated without killing them both.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
I would assume for conjoined twins who can't be separated if one dies first the other doesn't go long after.
I'm sure palliative care specialists also do their best.
I'm sure palliative care specialists also do their best.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2022
I would hope everyone turns a blind eye while an extra large dose of opiates is administered.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2023
Not to be too off topic -- as while these are certainly bizarre pregnancies, the individuals concerned aren't always 'tard babies' -- I'm intrigued by whether any functional neurological studies had been done on cases like this. To what extent does information propagate from one twin's brain to the other, and are they consciously aware of the others' cognitive processes, mental representations etc?
I had a little look to see if I could find even a structural MRI assessment of craniopagus conjoined twins, and while shared vasculature, sinuses (parts of the skull cavity) and even meninges (coverings over the brain), are not uncommon, I couldn't find a pic of one where the parenchymal brain tissue itself actually fused together.
Here are some of the pictures I could find, amazingly all pics show twins with anatomically distinct brains that were successfully separated:
img 1 source, img 2 source
There was also this interesting case, the source paper attached to this post as the full text wasn't available online without an institutional login: these twins were also successfully separated! Not sure what the end outcome was in terms of developmental milestones, but the fact that they survived alone and the brains weren't fused is astounding.
I would assume that this is because the neural progenitor cells and signalling pathways in most conjoined twins are normal, it's not the kind of neural tube defect that would cause masses of useless neurons (as in the case of lissencephaly, holoprosencephaly or megaloencephaly <-- do not google image search unless you want to see extreme dysgenic features),
Edit: Of course, there is the other extreme end of the spectrum where the entire head is fused together (pictured below), but nothing regarding fMRI studies or even MRI where part of the brain is fused in non-tards.
[/SPOILER)
Truly amazing.
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- Joined
- Feb 20, 2021
There was a guy in my hometown whose daily driver vehicle was a minivan plastered with graphic images of fetal remains after dilation and excision. He liked to park it outside the high school.
The evil anti-life doctors were WRONG when they said "incompatible with life"! 54 minutes of WRONG!
SUCK THAT, ALLOPATHIC MEDICINE!
That's correct. For example, the original "Siamese" twins, Chang and Eng Bunker, died hours apart in 1874. Chang, who was probably an alcoholic and suffered a stroke several years before, was the first to die, having contracted pneumonia. When one of Eng's sons (yes really) informed his father that Chang was deceased, Eng reportedly responded, "Then I am going!" He died within a few hours.
I can't find a published case report about them, but there is a set of Canadian craniopagus twins whose brains are fused at the thalamus. The girls, who were born in 2006, share consciousness. For example, each can taste the food the other eats. As infants, if one of them cried, she could be soothed by giving her sister a pacifier. Although they have epilepsy, both girls met expected developmental milestones.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
Not sure if there is a case report but I have seen documentaries about them.
Yep, Krista and Tatiana Hogan. One girl controls an arm and 3 legs, and the other controls 3 arms and a leg (not totally, but for the most part) and they can also see out each others' eyes. How they can keep track of this is definitely one of the mysteries of the human brain.
p.s. Want to be REALLY horrified? Here's what a Canadian physician had to say about them. I wonder if he would say that now; I doubt it. (Face it, they're less of a burden on society than your average opiate addict, as I put on my flameproof suit.)
I don't recommend clicking on the "View The Answer" button if you are in any way squeamish. I'm surprised they lived in utero for as long as they did. I had guessed correctly that they were conjoined twins with a neural tube defect, but I'm not listed because I probably didn't use proper terminology.
p.s. Want to be REALLY horrified? Here's what a Canadian physician had to say about them. I wonder if he would say that now; I doubt it. (Face it, they're less of a burden on society than your average opiate addict, as I put on my flameproof suit.)
I don't recommend clicking on the "View The Answer" button if you are in any way squeamish. I'm surprised they lived in utero for as long as they did. I had guessed correctly that they were conjoined twins with a neural tube defect, but I'm not listed because I probably didn't use proper terminology.
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2021
This got me thinking.
A large portion of the anti abortion movement is based on fetal pain. Recall Laura Streitmann of Ohio Right to Life talking about ten year olds giving birth and that she shouldn't have "death instruments" shoved inside her.
But that got me thinking.
If a fetus can feel pain when the D&C tool comes in, and feel it being torn "limb from limb" as that side is fond of saying...can fetuses feel pain with these dangerous genetic conditions? Can a fetus feel pain if its skull is pressing into its brain? Can it feel pain if its heart and gastrointestinal system forms outside its body? Is it aware of what's happening? Why argue it's suddenly conscious and aware of when the tools come in, but not when it has these genetic diseases?
Are they arguing they don't have brain function anymore? I've never seen this answered.
That's a great website. It's funny how medical websites are the ones that have accurate sizes and appearances of fetuses vs those gory "pro life" sites.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
Ironically, this is an adoption of a utilitarian ethical model in which the right not to suffer derives from the net amount of pleasure (or lack of pleasure such as pain) that results. Your hardcore Christian fundamentalist argument is generally entirely deontological, that is, the practice is wrong because God says it's wrong, that is, adherence to a rule is what makes something good rather than evil, not the consequences of the action itself.
It was probably wise to pivot to an argument like this, since "God says so" is really only going to appeal to Christians and people of other religions who have the same rules.
The general concept that rights not to be harmed derive from the capacity to suffer is straight from Jeremy Bentham's arguments against animal cruelty.
Oracular Slug
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- Aug 6, 2022
Some seasons ago this was a plotline on Grey's, super religious doctor discovers her fetus has a fatal form of osteogenesis imperfecta and asks exactly that - is her baby in pain now, long story short she decides it's a kindness to end the suffering. I'm not going to sperg religious here, but that's the morally correct decision.
Don't flame me, my mother's the fan.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2021
Wow that doctor is MATI. He should go ask the twins if they want to die.
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
Yeah they seem to be relatively happy and have a good quality of life, which is the important thing.
I can kind of get where the doctor is coming from though, at least if typical outcomes for conjoined twins like that really are that bad.
That aborted conjoined fetus with anencephaly though, oof. Talk about drawing an unlucky hand. Good thing the mother lived somewhere termination was avaliable.
David Glowie
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- Jul 4, 2022
"Frog eye sign."