Off-Topic MtFs in Women's Sports / Title IX Demolition

[Anasa Tristis]

I was shocked when I recently heard on the radio that Caitlyn Jenner reportedly spoke against MTFs in women's sports. Jenner being a former athlete probably has more of a credible perspective on the topic than the average armchair activist, but it was shocking, if not based, to hear about this assuming it's true and accurate.

It’s true. He was against gay marriage too. No matter what he looks like he’s still a republican to the bone.

 

[I call shenanigans]

I think it's good what Riley Gaines and her pals are doing, I think it is a Title IX issue and all. But I wonder if perhaps some of the messaging could be improved for the sake of the end goal of preserving single-sex sports. I find that when I tell people it's not about who's a woman and who's not, not about what is a woman and all that, rather that it's about the physical effects of sex, I get a lot

You’re clearly not watching the same Riley Gaines I have, if you don’t think she’s been pushing the male puberty advantages. Riley is perhaps the best thing to happen for female sports in decades.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers vetoed a bill that would have banned trans students from playing in school sports, saying that it "fails to comport with our Wisconsin values".

Archived

Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers, a Democrat, is facing backlash after he blocked a GOP-led measure that would have prevented transgender students in the state from competing on school sports teams that do not align with their biological sex.

Evers said the bill he vetoed "fails to comport with our Wisconsin values" in a letter Tuesday to state lawmakers. Assembly Bill 377 passed through both chambers of the state's GOP-controlled legislature earlier this year.

"I am vetoing this bill in its entirety because I object to codifying discrimination into state statute and the Wisconsin State Legislature's ongoing efforts to perpetuate hateful and discriminatory rhetoric and policies targeting LGBTQ Wisconsinites, including our transgender and gender nonconforming kids," Evers wrote.

"This type of legislation, and the harmful rhetoric beget by pursuing it, harms LGBT Wisconsinites' and kids' mental health, emboldens anti-LGBTQ harassment, bullying, and violence, and threatens the safety and dignity of LGBTQ Wisconsinites, especially our LGBTQ kids," he added.

Evers vowed Tuesday to veto "any bill that makes Wisconsin a less safe, less inclusive, and less welcoming place for LGBTQ people and kids."

The measure would have most prominently prohibited "pupils of the male sex from participating on an athletic team or in an athletic sport that is designated for females under par."

Shortly after he announced the veto, Evers shared a clip of him rejecting the measure on social media, writing, "I just vetoed Republicans’ anti-LGBTQ bill to ban trans and gender nonconforming kids from participating in school sports teams that align with their gender identity."

Riley Gaines, the former NCAA swim star who's seemingly become the face of fairness in women's sports after being forced to compete against biological men, took aim at Evers over his decision to reject the bill.

"BREAKING: I hate women and children," Gaines wrote in a post to X. "Fixed it for you."

Adrianne Curry, a model and actress, also weighed in on the governor's decision, accusing him of despising women.

"FYI, you despise all women and want us to fail in every way," Curry wrote. "Thank you! Thank you for hating women SO MUCH, you can't even hide it to save face in the public."

"That'll show those girls," added Tony Kinnett, an investigative columnist for the Daily Signal.

Another social media user wrote in response, "Sad day for women's sports."

In vetoing the bill, Evers also argued that the measure "ignores" a 2015 policy created by the Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association (WIAA) to govern the eligibility of transgender high school athletes in the state.

That policy, which does not prevent biological males from playing on female-designated sports teams, requires transgender females to undergo a full year of hormone therapy before they are able to play on female sports teams.

"Giving love and respect is NOT done by allowing girls to be injured and have their opportunities stolen," Paula Scanlan, a spokeswoman for the Independent Women's Forum, wrote in response to Evers.

Evers also argued that the measure "may conflict with existing federal law," saying the Education Department's 2021 notice of interpretation declared "that the Title IX prohibition on discrimination on the basis of sex is inclusive of sexual orientation and gender identity, which is inclusive of transgender students."

Prior to Evers' veto, the measure passed the state assembly on a party-line vote of 63-35 in October. The measure was then approved last month, mostly along party lines, by state senators in a 21-11 vote before it reached the governor's desk.

Neither GOP-led body has the required two-thirds majority to override Evers' veto.

 

[The Skeksis Emperor]

https://quillette.com/2024/04/02/the-damage-wrought-by-trans-inclusion-in-female-sports/ / Archive.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nder-athlete-rowing-harassment-suspended.html / Archive.

Quilette did a wonderful and huge article on the male basketball cheater who threw a female player to the ground hard. Named Lazuli Clark, he participates in 5 different female sports. He is black belt Tae Kwon Do. He was kicked out of a women's rowing team because he was acting like a creep.

In an interview with Quillette, one of the signatories reported that Clark joined the female rowing club in 2021, after placing poorly (“near the bottom,” by this parent’s account) with the club’s corresponding male team. Clark reportedly didn’t bother to shave or otherwise maintain the outward aesthetic pretenses of female gender identification, and even continued to wear the male club’s uniform.

In one documented 2022 incident, it is alleged, Clark walked into the girls’ changing room, spotted a female rower who was topless, and made a lewd comment about her breasts (“Oooh, titties”). As a result, documents reviewed by Quillette indicate, Clark was reported by team officials to the U.S. Center for SafeSport, a congressionally mandated body dedicated to “ending sexual, physical, and emotional abuse on behalf of athletes everywhere.” After SafeSport took action in late 2022, Clark never rowed for the club again—in either gender category. (Efforts to contact Clark or adult members of Clark’s family about these allegations, as well as other events described in this article, were unsuccessful.)

This motherfucker is one of the most privileged scrotes I've ever seen. His entire life is just fun hobbies. He sings in a classical choir and wants to be an opera singer, he's going to to be valedictorian, he participates in all the sports and wins because he competes against girls. Mom and dad seem to pay for everything and arrange everything for him and make sexual harassment claims go away. I usually have no problem with rich kids, since kids don't choose their parents or circumstances, but damn this irks me. Mediocre male who has been told he is the bestest of everything his entire life.

The school photoshopped him to look smaller than the female athletes. He is a massive ogre and sports a literal neckbeard. Fuck this asshole.

 

[JamusActimus]

The muh tranny ruined my sport argument is really stupid.

Tranny win very low level competitions. Some people here are acting as if they are world champion.

If anything women with insane test level have ruined female competition more than trannies ever did.



@me when 3 trannies win all medals like those test fueled freaks did.

 

[2SLGBQTIA+ 2 Furious]

About a month ago there was a grovelling news story about the first stunning and brave competitor in the WDF Women's World Championships for women darts players. She has now shared her achievement with /r/TransLater.

Outrage as Dutch transgender darts player Noa-Lynn van Leuven wins PDC Women's Series event in Wigan - prompting two of her female team mates to resign and tennis ace Martina Navratilova to say women have 'short end of the stick'​

Just wanted to collate these darting troons and expand on the ways in which this particular debate is stupid.

Spoiler: Darts sperging

There's an asymmetry between the men's and women's games in darts. All of the top men only play on the PDC tour, which has poached the top players from the WDF and the now-defunct BDO for years. Most of the top women will play both PDC and WDF events and the top performers in the small number of women's PDC events will earn a chance to compete against the best men in the world at some of the biggest tournaments, which are effectively mixed sex but still dominated by men.

As far as I can tell, true and honest woman Fallon Sherrock is the only woman to have beaten a man at the PDC World Championship and also has the best women's record in the Grand Slam of Darts, but no women have won a major mixed-sex event. The mixed-sex event van Leuven won (in an all-male bracket of eight players ranked around 100th in the PDC) was a comparatively minor event on the PDC Challenge Tour, but he was the first "woman" to win this kind of event. He actually won a mixed-sex event before winning a women's event.

The PDC regularly turns off replies on Twitter posts mentioning van Leuven. This archive of van Leuven's first women's series event win shows the initial reaction was mostly negative, but the likes and quote tweets evened out as terminally online crossdressers with no interest in darts found out a trans person had been facing criticism.

The PDC rankings are sorted by winnings and there doesn't seem to be an official women's rankings separate to the men, although the numbers are out there. In the WDF rankings, which are points-based, van Leuven currently sits 6th and Monaghan 29th. Two of the top 30 women's darts players are men. I am yet to find a trans man near the top of the men's rankings.

The arguments are beyond transparent at this point. There's no advantage for men in darts, but women still need their own events, but men who say they're women must be allowed to compete in these events? If there's a sport where we do go mixed-sex or gender neutral, this is it. Luke Littler and Beau Greaves burst onto the men's and women's scenes as teenagers in recent years, while 64-year-old Deta Hedman remains 4th in the WDF women's rankings (she also spoke out against trans women in women's events).

It's genuinely shocking, even in a sport as unathletic as darts, to see so-called progressive men trotting out the "why don't you just practise more" line to actual women in 2024, after two of the top ranked Dutch players quit national team selection in response to van Leuven's win. That's the sort of shit that, before I'd even seen many cases of MTFs in women's sports or even heard of KF, I would have thought was insensitive and uncurious.

We've come this far, so part of me hopes this continues long enough for van Leuven to play in front of 3000 drunken Britbongs at Ally Pally.

 

[LateNightMuffin]

@me when 3 trannies win all medals like those test fueled freaks did.

I don't know about the other two, but Caster Semenya is a male. Please do try to keep up.

 

[TroonFiringSquad]

The school photoshopped him to look smaller than the female athletes. He is a massive ogre and sports a literal neckbeard. Fuck this asshole.

Any troon in sports competing with facial hair is basically taunting everyone as far as I am concerned.

 

[Random Internet Person]

 

[TroonFiringSquad]

I fucking love it when troons try to clap back with: "You never cared about women's sports before, now you care because transwomen are competing?"

1) This is actually misogynistic because it assumes nobody has any reason to have cared about women's sports, this is a huge self own and shows the male mindset of troonz
2) Just because you don't give a shit about women's sports doesn't mean you want the leagues women compete in to be infiltrated and ruined by men, people hate cheaters even if they don't play the game or sport the person is cheating in
3) I don't care about women's sports, sure, but I also think they should be kept fair for those that do, if I was a girl/woman I think I'd be pretty disgusted at men forcing their way in... If anything this is an act of solidarity with women despite not being personally invested
4) Call it basic human instinct to protect women against men, but most people are going to pretty outraged when a tranny injures a woman and they don't want to see that

I think there's argument for troons to compete with women in some sports but to me that's relegated to stuff like chess, darts, eSports and is more a comment on some gender segregation seeming stupid, I don't see a reason to have segregation when it comes to chess and darts, but I don't really know if men actually have any advantages in those activities...

These fuckers wanting transwomen to compete in any women's league for any sport are completely poisoning the well and pissing everyone off.

 

[Procopius]

I've not seen this report publicised further, but apparently "The National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, which oversees smaller US colleges, announced a policy Monday that essentially bans transgender athletes from women’s sports." I'm not sure how significant this is.

NAIA votes for effective ban on transgender athletes in women’s sports​

• Body oversees athletics in smaller US colleges
• Council reported to have voted for ban unanimously

The National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, which oversees smaller US colleges, announced a policy Monday that essentially bans transgender athletes from women’s sports.

The NAIA’s council of presidents approved the policy in a 20-0 vote on Monday, according to CBS Sports. The NAIA, which oversees about 83,000 athletes at schools across the US, is believed to be the first college sports organization to take such a step.

According to the transgender participation policy, all athletes may participate in NAIA-sponsored male sports. In contrast, only athletes whose biological sex is female and have not begun hormone therapy will be allowed participate in women’s sports. A student who has begun hormone therapy may participate in activities such as workouts, practices and team activities, but not in interscholastic competition.

“With the exception of competitive cheer and competitive dance, the NAIA created separate categories for male and female participants,” the NAIA said. “Each NAIA sport includes some combination of strength, speed and stamina, providing competitive advantages for male student-athletes. As a result, the NAIA policy for transgender student-athletes applies to all sports except for competitive cheer and competitive dance, which are open to all students.”

The topic has become a hot-button issue among conservative groups and others who believe transgender athletes should not be allowed to compete on girls’ and women’s sports teams. Last month, more than a dozen current and former women’s college athletes filed a federal lawsuit against the NCAA, accusing the US’s main college sports governing body of violating their rights by allowing transgender women to compete in women’s sports.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/08/naia-votes-for-effective-ban-on-transgender-athletes-in-womens-sports

https://archive.is/https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/08/naia-votes-for-effective-ban-on-transgender-athletes-in-womens-sports

 

[ephermeral]

I was shocked when I recently heard on the radio that Caitlyn Jenner reportedly spoke against MTFs in women's sports. Jenner being a former athlete probably has more of a credible perspective on the topic than the average armchair activist, but it was shocking, if not based, to hear about this assuming it's true and accurate.

In that case, I hope Jenner is no longer competing in female golf competitions.

 

[Surfin Terf]

I've not seen this report publicised further, but apparently "The National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, which oversees smaller US colleges, announced a policy Monday that essentially bans transgender athletes from women’s sports." I'm not sure how significant this is.

Based. My only criticism is that women on PEDs should not be allowed to compete in any division even if they claim that they're men on the inside.

 

[Bookwork]

1st victory in the Troonic Wars: Normies no longer know what a "woman" is.

 

[std::string]

I'm not sure how significant this is.

Doesn't matter at all and it's not really surprising. NAIA is comprised almost exclusively of tiny private Christian universities at this point.

e: the college sports system is complicated and hard to understand, but if you have potential and want to develop in college then your coach will slap the shit out of you for wanting to go to anything but an NCAA D1 school. This is what all eyes are on right now.

 

[Chandelier]

So even after stalling repeatedly since 2022, the Biden admin is not going to reveal their shiny new changes to Title IX concerning males competing against females in their own sporting events until after the election.


No kidding. Cowards. Even alotta Lefties are not ok with men in women's sports.

https://archive.ph/2Tks6

I regret to inform you the new rules are out. Trannies can now have unlimited access to all female spaces.

 

[Anasa Tristis]

I regret to inform you the new rules are out. Trannies can now have unlimited access to all female spaces.

Yes & no. Yes, the new rules are out for classes and activities, and it looks grim, but in the doc itself (see the "unofficial version" link) it states that athletics are still under review and the new rules for those will be released later.

The Department has always treated access to facilities and classes differently than athletics. (Page 1271)

These final regulations do not include any changes to other provisions governing athletics. (Page 1327)

The Department disagrees with commenters who objected to the Department’s issuance of two related notices of proposed rulemaking. The July 2022 NPRM made clear that proposed § 106.31(a)(2) would not apply in the context of eligibility criteria for
sex-separate athletic teams because Congress recognized that athletics presents unique considerations and that the Department would issue a separate notice of proposed rulemaking to clarify Title IX’s application to criteria recipients use to establish students’ eligibility to participate on a particular male or female athletic team. 87 FR 41536–38. (Page 1347)

The fat lady has not sung yet, but we can all guess by now what tune she's going to belt out.

 

[HalfPint]

The Department has determined, based on a careful reading of Title IX and each of its
statutory provisions, that sex separation in certain circumstances, including in the context of
bathrooms or locker rooms, is not presumptively unlawful sex discrimination. However, when
such separation imposes more than de minimis injury on a protected individual, see Bostock, 590
U.S. at 681, such as when it denies a transgender student access to a sex-separate facility or
activity consistent with that student’s gender identity, this would violate Title IX’s general
nondiscrimination mandate, 20 U.S.C. 1681

I feel bad for all the women and girls doing sports, gym, etc in the years to come.

edit: really hoping we at least get athletics to remain sex-segregated

RIP OG TitleIX

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

I feel bad for all the women and girls doing sports, gym, etc in the years to come.

I'd feel worse if progressives at least pretended to care. As it is, it's the progressives they voted in doing it to them. Maybe it's good to keep running the pretense until the wheels fall off.

 

[std::string]

The fat lady has not sung yet, but we can all guess by now what tune she's going to belt out.

The federal government can't control what the NCAA does. They can only mess around with Title IX since that's a federal law.

The NCAA makes it extremely onerous for men to compete in women's sports to stop people from easily switching, and I doubt that will change since it would turn something like women's basketball into a farce if they allowed someone like Zach Edey to slap on a wig and compete with women two feet shorter than him.