Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Quijibo69]

What was the point of bringing Ren and Stimpy back again?

Because every 90's cartoon must come back. Can't be worse than the Tiny Toons reboot... can it?

 

[TVB]

What was the point of bringing Ren and Stimpy back again?

This, and only this

 

[AnOminous]

I'm so sorry to tell you this, but even though they killed Velma, they teased that the 3rd season will be about bringing back from the dead.

Pray to God that season 3 of Velma will never happen because Mindy Kaling is determined to make it happen.

This was so obviously going to be fuck-awful that I just ignored it from the beginning.

 

[Toxinophile]

I saw the leak for the new Ren and Stimpy, only the Hell episode as I'd rather not watch the other one.

It was just not very good, and didn't have the edge the original had. Hell their version of the Devil was neither funny or menacing. Ren also is given a title of torturer yet there are no creative or funny torture sequences which the old Ren and Stimpy would take advantage of, instead its just Ren whipping people while Stimpy begs Ren to come to Heaven.

Then Ren for some fucking reason cares for Stimpy and immediately saves him instead of torturing him, while the ending implies some sort of continuity when the show was very episodic.

That hell episode felt like it meant to be 22 minutes long but for whatever reason it was only 11. Because of this, the plot moves too fast to give any space for jokes and characterization. There's a part in the middle where the show starts playing a montage between Stimpy and the Devil that lasts for only 15 seconds. That montage shows only 1 conversation between the two and once it's done they're both instantly friends. If the montage was longer with more scenes with Stimpy and the Devil bonding it probably would've been actually funny, rather than confusing as it is now. Really every single scene could've been better with more time to flesh things out, instead of speeding thru a fairly predictable plot. At least a fairly predictable plot could've been executed better.





The second half is substantially better but I'd say you're not missing out for skipping It. Basically the show introduces a new character named Jan. It is revealed she is the original owner of the house that Ren & Stimpy have been squatting in this whole time. She moves in, shenanigans ensue, and ends with her becoming a permanent member of the household. Overall still pretty bland but at least this episode had more time to be funny since there was essentially only 3 characters here this time.

This episode still has the same problems but to give a little bit of credit, the stupidly simple plot does allow room for more jokes and gags. It definitely doesn't feel as rushed but both of these episodes just seem to end abruptly. I can't imagine this kind of pacing will good for the series, unless they plan on more Tom & Jerry-esque plots going forward.

It's a little odd that Stimpy both times had an instant change of heart, both times because of Stimpy's sudden platonic infatuation with Ren. I know Stimpy does care for Ren but they still need to provide evidence for it. These two episodes here don't show any of their supposedly long friendship bar at the very last second.

Jan right now I don't mind. She reminds me of Mammy Two Shoes from Tom & Jerry. Jan's got a few quirks that interact pretty seamlessly with Ren and Stimpy's gags. I don't know if Jan is gonna be a character mainstay of this reboot or they're gonna kill her off in the next episode for a gaff. Currently feels like an affable if not inoffensive type of personality to add in the new show.

5/10 so far. It's the bare minimum you could ask for in a cartoon. Felt like a modern SpongeBob episode but with much less wacky animation.

 

[TVB]

That hell episode felt like it meant to be 22 minutes long but for whatever reason it was only 11. Because of this, the plot moves too fast to give any space for jokes and characterization.

The original Nick series from the 90s had episodes that were 11 minutes to fill the 22 minute mark, and even then the episodes back then were better paced than either the new reboot nor APC

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

What was the point of bringing Ren and Stimpy back again?

Because Nickelodeon literally has nothing else. Anything past 2005 (besides The Loud House) was screwed over by the company and has no audience to milk for nostalgia.

All of their live-action shows are now tainted due to the increasing exposure of Dan and his pedo buddies.

SpongeBob is ongoing, The Loud House is ongoing, Avatar has multiple projects, Rugrats was brought back only to flop, Fairly Odd Parents will be brought back, (Invader Zim, Hey Arnold, and Rocko's Modern Life) got revival movies, and Danny Phantom is likely to be getting a live action film. There are very few shows they can bring back at this point, especially given that they sold Doug and (Jimmy Neutron and My Life as A Teenage Robot) may have rights issues.

Due to the company's shitty behavior and the general state of animation, no one wants to work for them to create an original.

Also, before hearing about how Ren & Stimpy won’t be on Nick, their parent company, Paramount, have literally nothing as well.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

All of their live-action shows are now tainted due to the increasing exposure of Dan and his pedo buddies.

But wasn't Ren and Stimpy also made by a pedo creep? You'd think that be a good reason to leave it in the past as well.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

But wasn't Ren and Stimpy also made by a pedo creep? You'd think that be a good reason to leave it in the past as well.

It is less well known given that there isn't a 4-part documentary on HBO where Drake Bell talks about how an exec raped him on set. There is a very big divide in out cry between the two with one getting a BuzzFeed article and the other getting a best-seller, a most watched, and every news publication coming out.

Nick still had Dan's shows playing and getting rebooted till just recently when it became a death sentence to do so.

 

[Computer Guardian]

Because Nickelodeon literally has nothing else. Anything past 2005 (besides The Loud House) was screwed over by the company and has no audience to milk for nostalgia.

All of their live-action shows are now tainted due to the increasing exposure of Dan and his pedo buddies.

SpongeBob is ongoing, The Loud House is ongoing, Avatar has multiple projects, Rugrats was brought back only to flop, Fairly Odd Parents will be brought back, (Invader Zim, Hey Arnold, and Rocko's Modern Life) got revival movies, and Danny Phantom is likely to be getting a live action film. There are very few shows they can bring back at this point, especially given that they sold Doug and (Jimmy Neutron and My Life as A Teenage Robot) may have rights issues.

Due to the company's shitty behavior and the general state of animation, no one wants to work for them to create an original.

Also, before hearing about how Ren & Stimpy won’t be on Nick, their parent company, Paramount, have literally nothing as well.

I imagine Cartoon Network is in the same boat doe to them doing the same with many shows they had being thrown to the side when Teen Titans Go became so popular and what was left was either rebooted or brought back already (Powepuff Girls and Samurai Jack) or had been ripped out and moved to Adult Swim (the one superman show that was planned to be on CN before being thrown to Adult Swim) or HBO Max (Like everything related to Adventure Time), except well... they don't have the burden that is having such a mainstay of a creator having an entire dedicated documentary about how depraved they were behind the scenes as Nick does right now, and the parent company doesn't even have something like the Barbie movie to fall back on and shove into their advertisements.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

TOO FAR I tell you, just too far.

 

[starborn427614]

Is that...a likable character...EXPERIENCING NEGATIVE ACTIONS?? OH MY GODDDDDD

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

https://twitter.com/VeraDrew22/status/1787977884642209904

View attachment 5973639

From the female, or rather "female" creator of The People's Joker. An attempt at a joke, I suppose, though what posting a clip from the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure OVAs (I think) is supposed to be funny? This makes me think Vera Drew was one of the writers who spoke with open disdain to Bill Wray. Imagine contributing to the likes of Ren & Stimpy, Mad Magazine, Samauri Jack and many more only to be told, sneeringly, you were an outmoded “old man” whose input was not needed on a project based on something you made major contributions to the original version of. Being told that by some "chick" responsible for the worst DC fan film ever made, one of a group of writers with no care for the original series they were brought on to reboot, who have no passion or interest in producing animation and were only looking for a famous IP to work on for their resumes.

"joke" or maliciously rubbing it in? or both?

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I imagine Cartoon Network is in the same boat doe to them doing the same with many shows they had being thrown to the side when Teen Titans Go became so popular and what was left was either rebooted or brought back already (Powepuff Girls and Samurai Jack) or had been ripped out and moved to Adult Swim (the one superman show that was planned to be on CN before being thrown to Adult Swim) or HBO Max (Like everything related to Adventure Time), except well... they don't have the burden that is having such a mainstay of a creator having an entire dedicated documentary about how depraved they were behind the scenes as Nick does right now, and the parent company doesn't even have something like the Barbie movie to fall back on and shove into their advertisements.

Cartoon Network is weird. They have a significantly higher amount of shows that are popular enough to come back + creator willing to work with them, yet don't pursue anything. KND, Billy & Mandy, and Courage all have unused concepts for returns. The only revivals/reboots CN does is Ben 10 and PPG, and I guess Adventure Time? I take Samurai Jack as a fluke that only happened given that Genndy became head of Adult Swim and Foster's because Cartoonito needed content and they are already bringing Craig back.

Theoretically, CN could go crazy with reboots. Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken, Ed Edd n' Eddy, Courage The Cowardly Dog, Billy & Mandy, KND, Regular Show, The Amazing World of Gumball, and Steven Universe (probably also Chowder and Flapjack) were all huge for the channel, but have yet to return. By contrast, Nick only has Jimmy Neutron for a heavy hitter not used in the modern era, otherwise they have to go into lesser back catalogue like Ahh Real Monsters, Thornberries, CatDog, and My Life as a Teenage Robot.

 

[Toxinophile]

The original Nick series from the 90s had episodes that were 11 minutes to fill the 22 minute mark, and even then the episodes back then were better paced than either the new reboot nor APC

I know, classic Ren & Stimpy is praised from front to back for good, good reason. Still, I'm taking note of this because it's possible that the hell episode was simply an outlier rather than the norm for the whole reboot.

Obviously a bad episode is still a bad episode but I feel like the rest of the reboot may have some potential to it. Not enough potential to live up to the original show, but something at least decent.

 

[WitchOfDarkness]

Cartoon Network is weird. They have a significantly higher amount of shows that are popular enough to come back + creator willing to work with them, yet don't pursue anything. KND, Billy & Mandy, and Courage all have unused concepts for returns. The only revivals/reboots CN does is Ben 10 and PPG, and I guess Adventure Time? I take Samurai Jack as a fluke that only happened given that Genndy became head of Adult Swim and Foster's because Cartoonito needed content and they are already bringing Craig back.

Theoretically, CN could go crazy with reboots. Dexter's Lab, Johnny Bravo, Cow & Chicken, Ed Edd n' Eddy, Courage The Cowardly Dog, Billy & Mandy, KND, Regular Show, The Amazing World of Gumball, and Steven Universe (probably also Chowder and Flapjack) were all huge for the channel, but have yet to return. By contrast, Nick only has Jimmy Neutron for a heavy hitter not used in the modern era, otherwise they have to go into lesser back catalogue like Ahh Real Monsters, Thornberries, CatDog, and My Life as a Teenage Robot.

I might seem weird glance, but It’s not as crazy as you might think. It’s simple really. As always follow the money.

Pretty much all those cartoons you mentioned were made FOR kids, and as such were financed with toys, or product placement deals. Mcdonald’s happy Meal toys etc.

Nowadays, cartoon revivals are pretty much aimed at adults mostly to sell subscriptions for streaming services. They are Nostalgia bait. The creators might be willing to return, but are kids today interested in them? I doubt it. Most of those might as well boomer shows for all they know.

That’s why Reviving Ren and Stimpy/AT makes sense, but doing a sequel to, say, KND doesn’t. Ren and Stimpy has a proven record of appealing to adults (they say the adult party cartoon sucked but it proves adults liked enough to try). Meanwhile, KND, a show about fighting “adult tyranny“ with exaggerated childhood metaphors has little appeal to the adults that watched it as kids besides nostalgia. But Even then I would argue most adults should have outgrown it by now (ironic considering what KnD is about, I know). But you really shouldn’t be using a kid's cartoon to vent about eating broccoli, or doing house chores if you are old enough to vote.

That‘s assuming you want “more of the same” and not just another edgy reboot, or sequels for adults. That’s why the AT sequels ( Fiona & Cake and Distant lands) are aimed at adults now. Fionna and Cake was outright made to appeal to late 20’s to early 30 adults. It wasn’t even subtle.

Point is, kids are not going to get excited about sequels or reboots of shows they never grew with. Reviving old successes crossing your fingers kids today will care or chasing the next big thing are equally risky.

And if they are that ”good” and “timeless”, then shouldn’t reruns be enough? At least until there is more demand? For today's kids , those old shows are brand new.

TL DR: Revivals are mostly aimed at nostalgic adults to sell subscriptions. Kids are not asking for them.

 

[Coolio55]

Because Nickelodeon literally has nothing else. Anything past 2005 (besides The Loud House) was screwed over by the company and has no audience to milk for nostalgia.

All of their live-action shows are now tainted due to the increasing exposure of Dan and his pedo buddies.

SpongeBob is ongoing, The Loud House is ongoing, Avatar has multiple projects, Rugrats was brought back only to flop, Fairly Odd Parents will be brought back, (Invader Zim, Hey Arnold, and Rocko's Modern Life) got revival movies, and Danny Phantom is likely to be getting a live action film. There are very few shows they can bring back at this point, especially given that they sold Doug and (Jimmy Neutron and My Life as A Teenage Robot) may have rights issues.

Due to the company's shitty behavior and the general state of animation, no one wants to work for them to create an original.

Also, before hearing about how Ren & Stimpy won’t be on Nick, their parent company, Paramount, have literally nothing as well.

Any info on those rights issues?
On one hand, I'm sad that the MLaaTR anime never happened.
On the other, there was allegedly this big trend on twitter with troons talking about how their transition was just like XJ-9.
Let it stay buried. Nobody could do that amazing artstyle anymore anyway.

 

[Toxinophile]

I am genuinely fucking baffled how people can get hyped for The Garfield Movie.

I just saw the camrip posted on Kimcartoon, and it is the most safe, overplayed, by-the-numbers kid slop I've seen this year. Fitting for the most safe, overexposed, by-the-numbers orange cat brand I've ever known.

The Mario Movie, for all its objectively poor execution, is a perfectly enjoyable experience, simply because it's all your favorite Mario moments and references on the big screen. You could argue the Mario Movie is at the very least, a wacky, fast paced, imaginative adventure movie without the context of decades of Nintendo propaganda. You will get something positive out of it even if you're not a diehard fan.

Meanwhile Garfield has none of that. It is a standard, contrived, run of the mill heist movie. It features Garfield, Odie, and a forgettable cast of one-note, anthropomorphic animals. It is no different to any of the other dozens of mediocre, 3d funny animal movies that have come out this past decade. I doubt this movie could even satisfy a single fanatical Garfield fan. Nearly all of the extended cast from the Garfield universe have been replaced with a small handful of original characters, a smattering of unoriginal pop songs, and a just small dash of obnoxious product placement.

What really gets my goat about The Garfield Movie is the incredibly lazy pathos between Garfield and his deadbeat dad Vic. Their relationship is played in equal parts as a gag and a as a serious character conflict. The gags are not particularly funny and the serious conflict does not feel particularly earned at all. They're both done painfully straight despite its frustratingly anemic humor and writing.

The Garfield Movie is especially frustrating with its tearjerker moments because it is absolutely bloated with filler gags at every single possible moment it could. Every tense part of this movie is always deflated by some sort of dumb joke. That is typical for many modern kids movies but it becomes noticeably egregious after the climax, when the movie is constantly trying and failing to tug at your heartstrings. Needless to say, I was not emotionally moved by Garfield's sad backstory nor his trauma with his father, because the whole movie he's been a gluttonous, sarcastic, annoying orange fur ball. The same gluttonous, sarcastic, annoying orange fur ball he's always been for the past 40 years.

4/10. About on par with Garfield: The Movie from 2004. Side note, I want to throttle the guy who decided to put those repetitive, sad piano notes and violin strings into every emotional scene in this movie.

Edit: After rewatching the Garfield: The Movie, I find that one much more watchable than the new one. The 2004 film still has its problems emblematic of its time period, but with in hindsight those negatives feel pretty quaint compared to the problems we have with movies today. I'd rather a have a Garfield movie with zero pretentions about what it is, than one that tries so ham fistedly to make me care about Garfield's daddy issues.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Any info on those rights issues?

This came up during Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl, but Nick sold a few of their series international air rights to Nelvana. Fairly Odd Parents was a major one (They sold the first few seasons pre-Poof) that has made it impossible for the Nick games to have Timmy in the series. I honestly wonder if the new God kid is to get around this.

My Life as a Teenage Robot was also given to Nelvana, along with Chalk Zone, Danny Phantom, Barnyard, and others. I think Jimmy Neutron had some troubles with 0 and DNA, hence why it took so long for Jimmy Neutron to be a part of the series and why there is so little shilling for what was a top 4 biggest NickToons contender.

Obviously, a lot of the characters are now getting material, with Danny seemingly having no issues, but something to consider as to why they haven't done some of them.

Pretty much all those cartoons you mentioned were made FOR kids, and as such were financed with toys, or product placement deals. Mcdonald’s happy Meal toys etc.

I would claim most of CN's lineup had a bigger pull for an adult audience than Nick. I can get KND being too "for kids," but B&M is a series they are pushing for adults on Adult Swim's Checkered Past and Courage they pushed for at least a crossover, showing they have some appeal.

When it comes to shows like Johnny Bravo or Regular Show, neither was really designed for kids if we are being honest.

From what I have seen of CN, they only seem to do reboots for brands that are big. PPG and Ben 10 are the 2nd and 1st largest money makers for the channel, so they get continuous continuations and reboots. Adventure Time is the unconfirmed, but obvious, 3rd biggest as it carried the company throughout the early 2010s.

 

[TVB]

Nick only has Jimmy Neutron for a heavy hitter not used in the modern era, otherwise they have to go into lesser back catalogue like Ahh Real Monsters, Thornberries, CatDog, and My Life as a Teenage Robot.

But what about Fairly Oddparents, Danny Phantom and Avatar: TLA, or other lesser known products like Angry Beavers?

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

But what about Fairly Oddparents, Danny Phantom and Avatar: TLA, or other lesser known products like Angry Beavers?

I mentioned those:

1. Danny is in development for a live action film
2. Avatar has numerous projects
3. Fairly Odd Parents has a reboot

Jimmy is the only heavy hitter that has not received anything since all those comebacks around 2019. Rugrats, Ren & Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life, Hey Arnold, SpongeBob, Invader Zim, Fairly Odd Parents, Danny Phantom, and Avatar are all either ongoing, gotten reboots/revivals, movies, live action adaptations, or will be getting the above.

Jimmy Neutron stands out the most to me in this regard as he was a prime NickToon, arguably on par with FOP popularity wise for a good while. He was also being built up as the mascot of the company given he was the face of the Universal ride.