Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[Miriam Margoyles]

Aw, I'm sorry, AssignedEva. Ignore me.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Was this meant to be a demonstration of how he's now a psychotic uncanny valley?

 

[transspotter]

Did anyone else find his focus on Catholics weird? I've watched a lot of trans influencers and this is the first time I've seen Catholics singled out like this. Usually, they go for a broader "far right Christians"

I'd love to hear what Muslims think of transgenderism. Were any of Mohammed's wives a Troon?

 

[ghjoigcbn]

I

Did anyone else find his focus on Catholics weird? I've watched a lot of trans influencers and this is the first time I've seen Catholics singled out like this. Usually, they go for a broader "far right Christians"

I'd love to hear what Muslims think of transgenderism. Were any of Mohammed's wives a Troon?

It did feel like a bit of a shoehorn. I think he wanted to include the Piotr Skarga thing and tie in anti abortion to anti troonism to make the case that feminists shouldnt be anti troon. Catholics are known to be anti abortion. It’s also telling how he listed every group he thinks are anti troon and then added and SOME feminists as if there were hardly any.

It also made me lol that he imagines old Catholic grandmas would be horrified that their money would go to pro life charities. It’s as if he thinks pro life charities harass women or strap them down and force them to birth babies and not, ya know, provide support for unwed mothers.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

There is only one way to describe this video and that is rife with mental illness.

Phantasms are a way of using cognitive dissonance in the face of anxiety, projecting their emotions outward to turn "as if" into "as so" - "A trans woman with a penis in the women's toilet makes me feel as if I am under attack" becomes "A trans woman with a penis in the women's toilet means I am under attack". Phantasms are how we deal with death - wanting to be buried somewhere with a nice view, even though you won't be there to enjoy it, because you're acting as if you'd still sort of be around and so mentally you think "I will still be around".

What is not a phantasm is that a so-called trans woman is a man and that a TiM's perception of himself does not have an effect on what type of body he has (male) or the statistically higher risk that he is going to be a threat.

Choob says people should not view a bepenised individual in the women's toilet as a threat, but he does not get into the why – as in why the person shouldn't be viewed as a threat or why the person being a trans woman (something decided entirely by someone's sense of inner self) negates the level of threat.

The anti-gender phantasm may be an attempt to criticise the effects of capitalism without acknowledging capitalism as the problem. "Anti-genderism is the socialism of fools, and the feminism of fools, and the anti-colonialism". Therefore when people say sex is binary, they're not stating fact, they're making a demand.

I wonder how reproduction in pre-capitalist and pre-colonial societies worked. Clearly, penis people must just have been running around sticking their dicks into random orifices until they somehow magically found a vagina person and then boom! a baby was born.

Ollie then explores how to address the political situation. If you're Catholic you should boycott Piotr Skarga. People who work in media should talk about anti-genderists the same way they talk about anti-vaxxers (i.e. "JK Rowling says sex is binary, which is wrong and she's only saying it because she's mentally ill").

In other words, those who say that having a gendered soul is enough be an organism that is not-a-man or not-a-woman, and that the gendered soul in question magically affects someone's physical ability and level of threat to others in their environment, as well as alters other people's perception of what they are and how they view that person's body (and all of this, without them having produced any sort of evidence for this) are not like anti-vaxxers but perfectly sane and reasonable people. Remember, this is the ideology that's been taking over Western institutions and the internet since the early 2010s.

(Though, TBF, I personally think it would be unfair to anti-vaxxers to compare them to TRAs, because anti-vaxxers do not hate vaccines because they don't believe that vaccines exist, whereas TRAs believe that sex doesn't but that gendered souls do)

I hadn't realised Judith Butler was a they/them (unless that's just a strange form of deference on Olly's part).

The Gender Guru has been identifying as a they/them since 2020 but she is kind enough to let people refer to her as she/her

 

[AssignedEva]

Aw, I'm sorry, AssignedEva. Ignore me.

Not at all, the "interview segment with no video essay inbetween" is a Nebula exclusive, so my smudged editing fingerprints on it means he'd find it hard to copyright strike this. Although frankly Phoebe Waller-Bridge might have a claim with the blatant Fleabag reference he forces in near the end.

Did anyone else find his focus on Catholics weird? I've watched a lot of trans influencers and this is the first time I've seen Catholics singled out like this.

It's because he read Anti-Gender Politics in The Populist Moment. It caused a lot of waves when it was published a couple of years ago, so it's not surprising he cited it, but it's written by two Polish scholars. They do deliberately write with a Polish perspective on Catholicism for some of the book and contrast it with a globalist perspective. Interestingly, the book (which is very interesting) doesn't really talk about trans people - the introductory chapter has this to say:

In their version of the story, the 1960s brought about a dissolution of the “natural order.” “Gender,” as the core element of this tectonic shift as viewed by ultraconservatives, epitomizes the collapse of the fundamental God-given difference that makes society function properly: that between men and women. One could easily put together a list of components of “gender” and wonder at its internal diversity: divorce, gay marriage, social acceptance of promiscuity, abortion, the demise of the traditional family. Yet, the multiplicity of evils should not lead us to the mistaken belief that the term is empty in a literal sense. Quite the opposite, “gender” is the general principle that makes descent into chaos possible; it is the dissolution of boundaries, the opposite of “natural order.”

We have identified three elements that constitute the core of antigenderism as an ideological perspective. These include:

1 A set of convictions about the nature of man, “natural law” and human dignity that is consistent with Christian dogma and radically antithetical to social constructionism. Although the base is theological, much care is taken to provide scientific grounding for anti-gender views on sex differences (neuropsychology, brain sex, etc.) and to argue that gender studies are a scientific hoax. The anti-gender movement claims to defend common sense against “the suicidal manias of the EU” – as Nicolas Bay, one of the leaders of Front National, put it in his speech at the World Congress of Families in Verona in 2019.

2 A deeply pessimistic and consistently anti-modernist narrative of Western intellectual, cultural and social history. The West is said to have degenerated under the influence of Marx, Engels, Freud, the Frankfurt School, feminism and postmodernism; specific thinkers and activists (especially Margaret Sanger, Margaret Mead and Alfred Kinsey) are presented as degenerates and semi-criminals, guilty of innumerable lies. In a speech delivered in September 2014 in Moscow, at the International Forum on Large Families and the Future of Humanity, Gabriele Kuby, one of the intellectual leaders of the movement, warned that genderism is fuelled by Marxist philosophers, particularly of the Frankfurt School in Germany. In their view, sexuality was to be liberated from restrictive morality – even from the taboo of incest. Sex between children, as well as sex with children, was to be allowed in order to create a “society without oppression.” (Kuby 2014) . A strong connection is traced between 1968 movements, the “ideology of gender” and Malthusianism. The core idea of anti-genderism, in the words of Kuby, is that “the deregulation of sexual norms leads to the destruction of culture” (Fantini 2013). Post-socialist countries and the Global South are said to be somewhat resistant to this cultural change. Today, antigenderists claim, they can save the West from spiritual and demographic suicide by defending what are presented as the original, universal Western values, referred to as Christian values and Christian civilization.

3 An alarmist and conspiratorial vision of the current global distribution of power: Neo-Marxist globalists are said to have taken over the world by means of blackmail and manipulation masked by benevolent talk about public health and human rights (Marchlewska et al. 2019). As expressed by Ignatio Arsuaga, the founder of HazteOir and CitizenGo, in his Verona 2019 speech, the enemies of the family include “Gramscians, leftists, cultural Marxists, radical feminists [and] LGBT totalitarians who want to control our sons and daughters, who want to shut us up.” These sinister global forces, allegedly funded by transnational corporations such as Amazon and Google, are described as a new form of colonialism, whose most vulnerable targets are the developing nations of Africa. Eastern Europe is accorded a special place in this geography of gender, as a part of the world that was largely untouched by the sexual revolution.

Ollie is deliberately conflating being "gender critical" with the term "anti gender", but the terminology as employed in this book is reflecting the usage seen in places like Poland, a general understanding that it's essentially an empty signifier that stands in for "changes that have happened in society since the 1960s". It's more pronounced in Poland because afaik Polish does not have different words for "sex" and "gender", and therefore gender is just a word from the English language that gets thrown around a lot by left wing activists there, and so is latched onto at protests -

This is from a protest about the Istanbul convention (and also it mentions the Morning After Pill). This is really what the book's about - social conservative backlash to women's liberation, pro-choice movements and also gay rights. The word "transgender" appears three times in the whole book, and two of those times are in quotes. It does mention "LGBT" quite a lot but as shorthand when discussing homophobia. In fairness this crowd are not going to look fondly upon trans people, but that's not really what any of this is about, the "LGBT" is about opposing gay marriage or civil protections for gay people - in no small part because being gay is still highly contentious in Poland. Polish reactionaries aren't really concerned about Polish children being taught the genderbread person or whatever since that's not going on there - whereas kids might still be hearing messages that being gay is ok.

It's also why he brings up The Father Piotr Skarga Association for Christian Culture, since they talk about its impact, and why he has to explain that Piotr Skarga are funding anti-abortion groups but doesn't specifically have anything to say about them funding anti-transgender rights groups. Because it's too far removed from them to really care about. If you read what their associated organisation, Ordo Iuris, has to say about gender you'll notice it's mostly complaining that the concept of gender is erasing the biological differences between men and women in an ill advised push for gender equality, and then very briefly touches on "sexual complementarity disorders" - but it's not really what they care about. (Likewise elsewhere on their website they're horrified that kids are being taught "genderową koncepcją płynnej płci" - "the gender concept of gender/sex fluidity" - in other countries, but see that as small fry compared to gay subculture, and it also hammers home how they use the word gender).

In other words, Ollie is a hack cherrypicking quotes and details from scholars and misapplying them to make his argument sound convincing.

 

[ghjoigcbn]

He loved to see the power of the state, media, and institutions wielded against the antivaxxers during COVID and is just mad they wont go to the same extremes for people that question transgenderism.

 

[Excited Eraser]

Butler herself has been pushing this 'anti-gender movement' for quite a while now: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2021/oct/23/judith-butler-gender-ideology-backlash

Of course it's just an attempt to group anyone who even has the slightest critique of gender ideology with all sorts of ideologues and conservatives. That just makes it easy to dismiss. I can't find it now but there was a very long article about the 'anti-gender movement' on CNN full of this stuff, trying to tie the treatment of women under the Taliban to efforts in the USA to stop gender clinics experimenting on vulnerable kids.

 

[Local Farmer]

Easily the most horrifying display of mental illness that I have seen in a while.

I’m not registered as a psychologist or anything but I think this guy is a true and honest narcissist, like in the mental illness sort of way

 

[verymuchawful]

Contorting your body and sucking your own penis is less self-fellation than whatever this shit is.

 

[Layton Mysteries]

If you don't want to trawl through the video, I fished out the Choob on Choob segment.

I don't care if he made a deal with the devil to get the voice & body of a woman, you could still tell he is a man just by the way he acts and his body language. He acts like an annoying alcoholic frat bro. I love how the old self character he scripted that is meant to be a strawman is actually more sane than he is now.
Also that autogynephilia moment near the end...

Did anyone else find his focus on Catholics weird? I've watched a lot of trans influencers and this is the first time I've seen Catholics singled out like this. Usually, they go for a broader "far right Christians"

It's probably because he grew up Catholic and his Catholic upbringing made him feel especially guilty about masturbating to himself as a woman, probably putting the fear of hell into him, for a while at least.

 

[Seija Kijin]

This is just what Chris did in his comic, but with more production value and narcissism.

 

[AssignedEva]

Butler herself has been pushing this 'anti-gender movement' for quite a while now: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2021/oct/23/judith-butler-gender-ideology-backlash

Of course it's just an attempt to group anyone who even has the slightest critique of gender ideology with all sorts of ideologues and conservatives. That just makes it easy to dismiss. I can't find it now but there was a very long article about the 'anti-gender movement' on CNN full of this stuff, trying to tie the treatment of women under the Taliban to efforts in the USA to stop gender clinics experimenting on vulnerable kids.

I'm sperging again because I get brownie points for sitting through Ollie's latest video.

Spoiler: Sperg

I'm not a linguist, so take this with a pinch of salt.

My understanding is as language emerged, the earliest noun classification systems in things like Proto Indo-European were between animate and inanimate - it versus they. Then obviously because there's men and women (or rams and sheep, or bulls and cows) so there was a need for masculine and feminine noun genders. Then for whatever reason lots of objects ended up in the masculine or feminine category, like how sailors call ships "she" or how people sometimes default to thinking of dogs as boys and cats as girls. Some vaguer animate objects became neuter - like how you might see in an older book something like "if a baby cries, it should be swaddled".

"Gender" in this sense can be understood as "class" - more obvious if you consider the Latin word for it, "genus" or the French word for it, "genre". Other languages like Bantu are considered to have noun classes so instead of masculine/feminine/neuter/ you have people/animal/object/abstract/young people/important people/group. It's the same sort of thing but most widely spoken languages conform to grammatical gender so this is considered a different noun classification system.

Obviously some PIE languages lost genders. German still has all three (if you took German lessons, der/die/das). This can be useful in some situations - der Arzt (the doctor, but generally a male doctor) die Ärztin (the female doctor) and das Arzt (the doctor, but I'm specifically talking in the abstract, and I think is pretty non-standard. I don't speak German and am not a linguist! This might be wrong). You still get weird stuff like calling certain inanimate objects he/she - der Baum is the tree, but it's male).

Something like French lost the neuter gender so they have no word for "it" - everything in French is he or she (or they (masculine) and they (feminine) - ils/elles. People complain that a group of women are called elles but a group of women and one man are called ils). Le chat is the cat, but la chatte is specifically the female cat. But there's no it. You also get weird stuff like liquorice - une réglisse means the liquorice plant, or la réglisse in the context of being flavoured by liquorice, but it's un réglisse to refer to a liquorice sweet. Obscure words can actually vary in gender by region.

Swedish confusingly merged masculine and feminine into one category, eutrum, and no gender, neutrum - so you get en bok (a-they book) and ett äpple (an-it apple).

There's other knock on effects - Russian literature can be confusing to read because they apply grammatical gender to surnames so Count Karenin but Anna Karenina.

English basically lost the grammatical gender completely although there's traces of it in stuff like waiter/waitress (I guess you could argue you we just degendered anything animate, but like German das tier - the animal - we would say "if an animal was in here, it would have left a mark"). We don't have to say things differently - "the" doesn't change if you talk about a man or a woman. So in English the word gender doesn't have the same utility as in other languages, it's only really useful to talk about other languages.

The meaning of gender in the sense of "class" knocked around for a bit. If we look to Shakespeare -

Virtue! a fig! ’tis in ourselves that we are thus or thus. Our bodies are our gardens, to the which our wills are gardeners: so that if we will plant nettles, or sow lettuce, set hyssop and weed up thyme, supply it with one gender of herbs, or distract it with many, either to have it sterile with idleness, or manured with industry, why, the power and corrigible authority of this lies in our wills.

Iago isn't talking about male cannabis plants and female cannabis plants, "one gender of herbs" means "one type of herb". Like I said, it's like genre or genus - but that use is outdated.

We also get the quirk that we have a gender neutral "they" and collective nouns which some other languages lack (hence latino/latina and then the artificial "latinx" because Spanish can't do that). We also even have a gender neutral singular they, more common in British English, generally for an unknown person - "I think a patient has booked the room for tomorrow. Can you tell them that they'll need to go speak to the consultant?". Tends to be more natural than "he or she will need to speak to the consultant". Lots of languages lack this facility.

So anyway, because English wasn't really using the word "gender" outside of linguistics, but it was associated with the concepts of masculine and feminine, the evil scientist and paedophile John Money latched onto it to differentiate from the concept of sex. It had cropped up in the past, usually poetically, because you could equally talk about the masculine genre of person and feminine genre of person (or "the male species and the female species" but he's the one who popularised it).

Long story short: "gender" being a word meaning something distinct from "sex", doesn't really work outside of the English language. The majority of English speakers will never need to use the word gender in the way other languages use it, outside of language lessons (which many Anglophones don't pursue after school). The way in which other languages use the concept of gender is alien to our way of understanding our own language. So "gender" in the way Anglophones use it often doesn't really work in other languages.

Activists in non-Anglophone countries wish to introduce the use of the word gender but their version of the word might not make sense to local speakers in the same way as it does in English. So they use the English word "gender" instead of their native word for gender, because it means something else.

Consequently, foreign language speakers associate the English word "gender" with a variety of things associated with Western Anglophone left wing activists. And so:

They're saying "gender" is bad. That makes no sense to Anglophones because how can you be against gender? But what they mean is basically something more like "against Cultural Marxism" because that's how the foreign loan word is associated in their language.

People like Ollie (and I guess Judith Butler, although I've not read enough of her writings to comment) deliberately prey upon this linguistic ambiguity to make it sound like all of Europe is specifically seething about trans women when in fact it's just an umbrella term they use to being opposed to certain forms of feminism and gay rights.

As I said, these people also wouldn't like trans people, but trans people pretty much don't even register on the Richter scale because when they're talking about "gender" they mean the dissolution of gender roles, the destruction of the nuclear family and other generally subversive elements within their own society. It's a bit like insisting the Holocaust was about trans people.

 

[Ensi]

If this is how the dude looked before his transition, even I could've told you that this dude would have trooned out. Just look at those bitch-tits holy shit, talk about gynecomastia

 

[ghjoigcbn]

So acording to Olly

The good parts of his transition
- happy basically all the time
- better career
- better love life
- parents and family accepting
- more YouTube subscribers
- almost no one did not accept him

Bad parts
- the “””political situation””” he makes it sound like trannies are being arrested and sent to gulag when trooning out has in reality amplified his voice and revitalized his career ( hello phantasm?)
- hard to get “”””health care””” read: instantaneous and free transgender care without dysphoria as soon as he asked for it.
- men talk over him - lol probably becausr he talks too much no one can get a word in edgewise
- he gets “shouted at in the street” which he implies is the female experience of being catcalled ( this probably doesn’t happen to him and if he does he loves it, was practically giddy at the idea)
- men bump into him and are generally threatening now that he’s a woman . He’s 6 ft tall and huge so i really doubt this. Interesting though how he co-opts female fear of males threatening presence but then layer says to his old self being tall and male doesn’t make him inherently threatening because being tall doesn't mean you are violent or something
- if anyone reeees at him IRL it’s probably because he is a non passing troon and or a massive prick but he wants to pretend it is because he is a scared wittle wady. And Ive never been to london but Ive been to a lot of cosmopolitan cities and ive never seen horrendous trannies being street harassed, but i have seen lots of trannies

PS lol at him citing whipping girl and calling the author a biologist as if it’s an academic work. So many people sucking his cock in the comments too i can only assume they are all troons or perverts themselves.

 

[ChromaQuack]

Contorting your body and sucking your own penis is less self-fellation than whatever this shit is.

You have to admit that someone who(sorry if he hasn't I just assume as a troon he has) chopped off his dick yet still manages to self-suck it is quite an impressive feat.

 

[transspotter]

View attachment 5999511
If this is how the dude looked before his transition, even I could've told you that this dude would have trooned out. Just look at those bitch-tits holy shit, talk about gynecomastia

No Olly was actually decent looking and in good shape when he trooned out. I don't know why he got a fat slob to portray his old self. Maybe to make his current hulking self look better?

 

[evilsponge]

Was Oli inspired by Always Sunny in Philadelphia when he made that video? There's a lot of similarities.

 

[AfghanBlue]

@AssignedEva don't half know a bit about a bit, lol.
It's genuinely impressive.

The fact that after all your deep dives, you had to close the video, combined with the fact of my having been phsycially able to watch a video of Olly for three years, I think I might somehow be at risk of genuine injury if I try this self interview without appropriate protections being in place.

I'm gonna have to make some preparations... I have no idea what shape these will take.

 

[Miriam Margoyles]

I like how he calls his old self 'discount Tom Hiddleston', as if it's supposed to be an insult, but is really just a transparent way of bigging himself up. I mean, the fucking ego on the guy. He doesn't look a fucking thing like Tom Hiddleston. Maybe he wishes he did.

I don't even think Tom Hiddleston's much of a looker, but given the choice between him and Choob, fucking hell, sign me up, Loki.