Armed Protesters take over Fed owned Building

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html

Yep. Another chapter in the Cliven Bundy saga. Protesters have taken over a Federal building in Oregon, claiming the government is using unfair tactics to try and get them to sell them their farmland. Shit hit the fan when ranchers where arrested for arson. The ranchers claim they where doing it to kill off invasive crops and to prevent wildfires. The protesters think the arrest was the government trying to punish ranchers.

Shit gonna go down folks
 
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It looks like the "muh rights" will have another exceptional match with the Government.
 
Ruin said:
Granted my legal experience isn't as extensive as yours being just a student and all but wouldn't trespassing and destruction of property charges be virtually a slam dunk?
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Pretty much. Unless it really was a political decision just to find them not guilty no matter what just because they're white, which is the dumb narrative many of our lolcows on Twitter have been saying. Frankly I don't believe that. There were also federal firearm charges. I have no idea what happened to those or if they were even legitimate at all.
 
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AnOminous said:
Pretty much. Unless it really was a political decision just to find them not guilty no matter what just because they're white, which is the dumb narrative many of our lolcows on Twitter have been saying. Frankly I don't believe that. There were also federal firearm charges. I have no idea what happened to those or if they were even legitimate at all.
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I think by trying to make it a racial thing the lolcows drastically underestimate how much rural westerners HATE the federal government. There's a reason secessionist movements are more popular on the west coast than anywhere outside of Texas.
 
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Skeealator said:
How did these clowns manage to fuck this up? The Bundy crew fimed themselves waving guns around in a federal building and put it up on youtube! Dammit, I am salty as hell right now.
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Because they chose to pursue a federal conspiracy charge requiring them to prove specific intent to stop government employees from doing their jobs, instead of just charging them with the completely normal crimes they could have been charged with. Trespassing. Burglary. Destruction of federal property. Shit like that.

Then if they got them on any of these, throw in the firearms as a sentence enhancer because any federal crime committed while using a gun gets heavier sentencing.

I'm not sure their guns were even per se illegal, because otherwise those charges should have stuck. But what they were doing while waving them around was.

The prosecution probably isn't even in a position to go back and bring any of these charges either, because they should have already done it. Even if they could get around double jeopardy, the optics of just trying someone over and over until they get a conviction makes that tough.

They have another trial over the original standoff in Nevada in February, featuring some of the same conspiracy type arguments. If I were the prosecution I would be seriously considering changing tack on that shit, because it didn't fly this time.

(It's also a pet peeve of mine when people just reflexively call the jury idiots because they didn't like the result, especially when there's such obviously wrong shit that the prosecution chose to do. It's not up to the jury to decide if the defendants are bad people. They have to decide whether the prosecution proved its case according to the very specific jury instructions telling them what the prosecution has to prove to get a conviction. If the prosecution doesn't meet that burden, that's THEIR fault. Not the jury's.)
 
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And they say SovCit magic doesn't work! I laugh at that from a position of Admiralty that is determined and nomenclated as a ship of laughs!
 
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Bob's Fries said:
What the flying fuck.
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Jury nullifcation. :( Must've been some closet Freepers on the jury.

I'm only posting this now because I just found the article yesterday: apparentlty Ryan Bundy's so fucking dumb he complained that he couldn't have his guns in jail. It's not a very good article, but it does quote the retard:

"All of my First Amendment rights are being violated. My right to freedom of religion is being violated. I cannot participate in religious activities and temple covenants, and wear religious garments. […] My right to freedom of speech is being hampered by monitoring and recording. My right to freedom of assembly is being violated; I am not allowed to see my brother and move about. Yesterday, I attempted to discuss these issues with the U.S. Marshals, and they said that these were simply the jail rules. […] My Second Amendment rights are being violated. I never waived that right."
 
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Skeealator said:
How did these clowns manage to fuck this up? The Bundy crew fimed themselves waving guns around in a federal building and put it up on youtube! Dammit, I am salty as hell right now.
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I don't know maybe because people that live in the west might be a little tired of BLM and the federal government owning a large percentage of land there.

People tend to get salty about that, and people from say the east coast don't have experience with that when it comes to federal oversight vs state oversight.

Consider Adirondack Park as an example.
 
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Piss Clam said:
I don't know maybe because people that live in the west might be a little tired of BLM and the federal government owning a large percentage of land there.

People tend to get salty about that, and people from say the east coast don't have experience with that when it comes to federal oversight vs state oversight.

Consider Adirondack Park as an example.
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Well, shit, why don't I just assemble an armed posse and vandalize a federal building. Because that's what grownups do when when they disagree with BLM policies.
 
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Skeealator said:
Well, shit, why don't I just assemble an armed posse and vandalize a federal building. Because that's what grownups do when when they disagree with BLM policies.
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Maybe, but consider this.

The federal government isn't there to 'conserve' the land for you. They make money off of it hand over fist, and give the particular state a small cut of it. Money from timber, gas, coal and anything else they can get out of it.

If you turned over federal lands to the states then of course the BLM and the federal government would lose a cash cow and the BLM would have no reason to exist.

Much like the BIA would be trimmed to nothing if you turned over the trust funds.

Have you even looked at a map of what we are talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg

Perspective.
 
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Skeealator said:
Well, shit, why don't I just assemble an armed posse and vandalize a federal building. Because that's what grownups do when when they disagree with BLM policies.
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They would have gotten a much stricter sentence if they simply shot into the BLM crowd and helped the world to be rid of some truly exceptional dindus.

BLM is pretty much allowed by the goverment.
 
I apologise, I thought it was that BLM. This other one is not famous outside US.

The Land Management office? I doubt they can do much against that than sending angry mails and emails.
 
Mrs Paul said:
Obviously -- doesn't mean they weren't sympathizers. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that they were found not guilty. The Bundys are just so amazingly pork stupid.
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They weren't charged with being stupid. They weren't even charged with trespassing, or vandalism, or all the things they actually did. They were charged with an absurdly specific conspiracy that required the government to prove they conspired with the specific intention of impeding government employees from doing their job, which they failed to prove to the satisfaction of the jury.

Why the prosecution chose to do this is a mystery to me.
 
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AnOminous said:
They weren't charged with being stupid. They weren't even charged with trespassing, or vandalism, or all the things they actually did. They were charged with an absurdly specific conspiracy that required the government to prove they conspired with the specific intention of impeding government employees from doing their job, which they failed to prove to the satisfaction of the jury.

Why the prosecution chose to do this is a mystery to me.
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A lesson to be learned by the next prosecutor, and there will be a next one. This sort of victory is only going to encourage the SovCits and the Bundy clan in particular. I'm curious as to what hair-brained scheme they're going to come up with next.
 
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