George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

At this point I'm not sure there's enough money in the world to get Sanderson to write something like that. He has pretty much zero non-necessary free time and he really does not want to be involved in something that I'm sure he thinks is quite far on the way to obscene. Writing the remaining books in his normal tone would piss off fans and I don't think he wants to do that either.
Well, pick your name. I only said Brandon Sanderson because he finished Wheel of Time and because it was funny. But the series is too big and too profitable to go unfinished if Martin dies, so somebody will be finishing it, even if Martin is adamant that he doesn't want anyone continuing his work after he's gone
 
The Dragon demands is still denying reality. (He’s the guy that goes on hysterical rants about how bad D&D are).

But yeah, Preston saying this when he’s talked so much about “Quentyn isn’t dead” before is quite the concession.

I think the best we can hope for is Martin releases some sort of outline-such and such characters live, die, overall fates. I doubt it though.
No, its a pretty dumb take. Like most autistic people, Preston is amazing at finding and analyzing minute details in the books, but terrible at recognizing themes.

I didn't watch that particular video, but I have seen similar videos from him where he was complaining about the expediency of the storytelling because it wasn't efficient enough. I forgot the exact example he used, but he was arguing that a plotline only existed to convey information from one character to another, and that it was overall unnecessary because that information could have been conveyed in a much more efficient way.

Which is an absolutely retarded way to approach story-telling. Its like complaining about the Odyssey because Odysseus kept stopping at obviously dangerous islands when he just wanted to go home.

"Fucking Homer, that goddamn procrastinator!" - Big Brain Youtube Commentator
 
I'm glad after, what a decade now? of making ASOIAF videos, Preston has caught up to where the fanbase was in 2011
This makes sense. IIRC, Preston only got into ASOIAF through the TV show like in 2012 or something.

It's funny how much of a turn he's done on GRRM. I'm pretty sure he used to be one of those "He's not your bitch" people.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: nikma
At this point I'm not sure there's enough money in the world to get Sanderson to write something like that. He has pretty much zero non-necessary free time and he really does not want to be involved in something that I'm sure he thinks is quite far on the way to obscene. Writing the remaining books in his normal tone would piss off fans and I don't think he wants to do that either.
He has publicly stated multiple times (because this meme of him finishing the books keeps coming up in interviews) that he doesn't feel comfortable writing what he'd have to write for it to fit GRRM's universe and he will refuse if Random House ever approaches him about finishing them.
 
He has publicly stated multiple times (because this meme of him finishing the books keeps coming up in interviews) that he doesn't feel comfortable writing what he'd have to write for it to fit GRRM's universe and he will refuse if Random House ever approaches him about finishing them.
Would be pretty funny if they go with some fanfiction floating around on the net. After all, GoT already has smut in it canonically.
 
In case people forgot, most of the fandom hates this guy because he's an ultra autistic fool who thinks everything is a hidden clue. A character can't just like apples as a characterization of his or her humanity, nah: it's all part of the Big Fruit Conspiracy and I can totally prove it, guuuuuys!! He's the nerd version of someone who interrupts your tale of your visit to Egypt to remind everyone how aliens built the pyramids and how much of a fool you are for not believing it.

Preston's problem isn't Martin but the image he made of him in his head.
 
A lot of ASOIAF fans used to have this notion ASOIAF was twenty layers deep-that there were multiple hidden stories within the story, subtexts upon subtext upon subtext, entire theories were crafted on what amounted to esoteric interpretations of single quotes or paragraphs. Entire subplots in the narrative background you just had to be ultra autistic to see.

(Thankfully honestly) this sort of thing has ended with the show.

Preston is a holdover from that time, and while he would never admit it-you can tell when you hear his voice, he feels a bit embarassed now.

Secrets of the Citadel-some british thot, had similar views, I remember watching her aliens in Westeros video-she's deleted her channel now.

A lot of the big ASOIAF fan names either cut their output entirely or veered hard away from the IP in the show's aftermath.
 
A lot of ASOIAF fans used to have this notion ASOIAF was twenty layers deep-that there were multiple hidden stories within the story, subtexts upon subtext upon subtext, entire theories were crafted on what amounted to esoteric interpretations of single quotes or paragraphs. Entire subplots in the narrative background you just had to be ultra autistic to see.
There are lists of unanswered book and show questions that are endless. Some of them are literally central premises and mysteries of the entire series. Like the nature of the Others and their mythology. All of the basic plot questions like "who will be king at the end of the series?" were given hilarious unsatisfactory answers like Bran.

No one has confidence in GRRM as a writer or author even of his own series.

(Thankfully honestly) this sort of thing has ended with the show.
Once the franchise is rebooted in both books and television they will attempt to clean up GRRM's mess and answer stuff about the Others and all the other mysteries that were left unresolved or obnoxiously ambiguous. They are just waiting until he drops dead to make sense of his sloppy mess. His 'gardener technique' of making a story is one of the biggest failures in writing of all time.
 
There are lists of unanswered book and show questions that are endless. Some of them are literally central premises and mysteries of the entire series. Like the nature of the Others and their mythology. All of the basic plot questions like "who will be king at the end of the series?" were given hilarious unsatisfactory answers like Bran.

No one has confidence in GRRM as a writer or author even of his own series.


Once the franchise is rebooted in both books and television they will attempt to clean up GRRM's mess and answer stuff about the Others and all the other mysteries that were left unresolved or obnoxiously ambiguous. They are just waiting until he drops dead to make sense of his sloppy mess. His 'gardener technique' of making a story is one of the biggest failures in writing of all time.
I seem to remember Martin saying the reason for the seasons being screwed up would be explained. Was that ever explained in the books or show? I stopped reading the books after AFFC and never watched the show beyond bits and pieces.
 
The problem with Bran is he is like the most uninteresting character that isn't Areo Hotah. He's a paraplegic what...ten year old that goes to become a wizard. I like what Martin was...probably trying to do with Bran, and I can sort of imagine what a King Bran in Martin's mind looks like. A sort of druid like priest king figure that takes the lessons of Brynden Rivers and then...rejects his moral framework? Maybe?

The issue is well...Bran just is just not an engaging character. You can write all you want about the fisher king or weirwood thrones or the ghost of high heart, or any other potential foreshadowing that exists and it will never make Bran exciting as the end game "winner"

If Martin wanted Bran to end up being some sort of druid/mystic/unifying presence that rebuilds a broken land-the theme for King Bran is there, he should have done a lot more to telegraph this.

(And I do think Bran being "king" comes from Martin-its not something D&D ever would have done if it had been their decision, and if you look enough at Bran material in the books as well as related tree magic stuff-you can see where its leading, it still doesn't solve the problem Bran is ultimately a bland non descript child that few of the readers are deeply invested in).
 
(And I do think Bran being "king" comes from Martin-its not something D&D ever would have done if it had been their decision, and if you look enough at Bran material in the books as well as related tree magic stuff-you can see where its leading, it still doesn't solve the problem Bran is ultimately a bland non descript child that few of the readers are deeply invested in).
I put the dumber plot points in the later seasons to D&D reading GRRM's notes on what the plan is, wondering "How the fuck do we put this on the screen? Are we really going to extend the show another four seasons to show fAegon and JonConn and Victarion and Arianne and Stoneheart and Marwyn when their stories go absolutely nowhere and end like a wet fart? I get the Fisher King reference but Bran has little build up and been in three chapters since ASOS was published in 2000, will it work? Why do Cersei and Jaime end up dying together when their stories have dragged them apart? What's the point of Dorne? Does it really matter that the Three Eyed Crow Raven is a bastard Targ, and does this mean we have to talk about the fucking Blackfyres? Aarrrrghhh, fuck it, I'm gonna get me another few bottles of rye and make Nick Rekieta look like a sober Scandinavian prude."

That doesn't excuse the all black episode or Bad Pussy, but I can see both of them getting pissed that GRRM left them high and dry with no books, and realizing that GRRM was telling them that it was their job to finish ASOIAF while George plays with his drone and gets to take credit for the good parts of the show and point fingers at D&D for the shit. Which is exactly what happened.
 
To be fair, we really don't know where the plots of Aegon, Jon, Vic, etc, would have taken the story.

Just because every orange ain't part of the Fruit Conspiracy, doesn't mean that there aren't clues around for us to know what will happen. I'm sure Victarion was going to be the one taking Dany to Westeros, and that was going to create an Ironborn civil war.
 
I feel like Bran being king is something Martin probably conceived of early, like in the early nineties. Bran has…one POV chapter in Dance? Two? I forget.

As the story has grown more bloated and removed from whatever outline existed in Martin’s head circa 1996 or 2000, placing Bran back at the center is extremely difficult to do.
 
I feel like Bran being king is something Martin probably conceived of early, like in the early nineties.
It's clearly based on Bran the Blessed in Welsh mythology. Bran literally means 'crow'. Bran is also the first main POV in the book series after the prologue where the Others kill two Night's Watch members and the third flees (a chapter that had a bunch of random changes for the HBO show, a sign that the adaptation would not be great in the long run).

Also GRRM's first few outline to his publisher prominently feature King Bran. As did his original meeting with D&D where he told them that Bran would become King of Westeros. Which they seemed to be steering away from in the show just like GRRM in the books. Only to whiplash him back into the narrative right at the very end. It also fits GRRM's love for cripples and underdogs where midgets and fat pigs and other freaks rise to the top of society unlike the classic heroes and strongmen.
As the story has grown more bloated and removed from whatever outline existed in Martin’s head circa 1996 or 2000, placing Bran back at the center is extremely difficult to do.
Almost nothing in the books or shows reveals any long term vision or planning. GRRM has no idea anymore if he ever had one in the first place. And not even the gigantic writing teams at HBO could clean up his mess seemingly and they just jammed the conclusion into two short seasons and moved on to other projects. The more and more you see GRRM not writing Winds of Winter the more you can excuse D&D for just abandoning the show.
 
Sounds like Mexico to be honest.
There's a strong streak of nihilism in the universe. Servants or dirt peasants are basically just cannon fodder, to be sacrificed or killed by the rich folks at their whim. While this is used to make the story seem more "realistic", it also makes the writers seem like tryhard edgelords.
 
There's a strong streak of nihilism in the universe. Servants or dirt peasants are basically just cannon fodder, to be sacrificed or killed by the rich folks at their whim. While this is used to make the story seem more "realistic", it also makes the writers seem like tryhard edgelords.
It also seems like a system that neck itself after a while, given the 20-year winters and so on.
 
He's definitely wasted his life.
Don't let his overwhelming autism fool you. He has a nice job at the State Department and has made 6 figures from Asoiaf theories.
A lot of ASOIAF fans used to have this notion ASOIAF was twenty layers deep-that there were multiple hidden stories within the story, subtexts upon subtext upon subtext, entire theories were crafted on what amounted to esoteric interpretations of single quotes or paragraphs. Entire subplots in the narrative background you just had to be ultra autistic to see.
That era was filled with wonder as even though there was consensus on major details, there's so much unaddressed that hundreds of theories were plausible. I vividly remember analyses of dragon rider genetics, mathematically determining the temperature of soup used to kill Viserys and schizo theory after schizo theory. The issue is the lull has been far too long. The community has largely come to a consensus about the major story beats that are going to happen next and the show filled in lots of gaps.

GRRM is so lazy that he let his fans and HBO essentially reveal all the major content of the next book. There's nothing left to talk about except the man himself and non-plot analysis and both of those were found to be over hyped and annoying.
 
The problem with Bran is he is like the most uninteresting character that isn't Areo Hotah. He's a paraplegic what...ten year old that goes to become a wizard. I like what Martin was...probably trying to do with Bran, and I can sort of imagine what a King Bran in Martin's mind looks like. A sort of druid like priest king figure that takes the lessons of Brynden Rivers and then...rejects his moral framework? Maybe?

The issue is well...Bran just is just not an engaging character. You can write all you want about the fisher king or weirwood thrones or the ghost of high heart, or any other potential foreshadowing that exists and it will never make Bran exciting as the end game "winner"

If Martin wanted Bran to end up being some sort of druid/mystic/unifying presence that rebuilds a broken land-the theme for King Bran is there, he should have done a lot more to telegraph this.

(And I do think Bran being "king" comes from Martin-its not something D&D ever would have done if it had been their decision, and if you look enough at Bran material in the books as well as related tree magic stuff-you can see where its leading, it still doesn't solve the problem Bran is ultimately a bland non descript child that few of the readers are deeply invested in).
You basically just quoted this meme.
1000133721.jpg
 
Back