Does anyone else genuinely miss the 2000s?

[grump]

Speaking of skanky girl culture from the 00's I been thinking about the consequences of that. Consider all the aging millennial feminists now were in their teens and early 20s back then, they were the chicks who thought being a slut was cool, that paris hilton was cool, that sex and the city was aspirational.

I have no real first hand knowledge of how women were like before the transitional era of the 60s-2000s when the old timey conservatives lost power and men and women reverted to their primal natures of frat bros and 'skanky' hoes. Until militant SJWs clamped down on it again as they assumed power.

All I know is I prefer slutty/skanky 2000s women over the hardcore militant feminists women often are now.

Then their looks faded, the men they wanted didn't want them anymore, the years of boozing and partying took their toll, the dream was over.

I also am/was an aspiring artist in both 2d and 3d and I found some of the best learning material for my purposes was the work of professional artists for video games. So it was kind of annoying when literally the entire western industry around the late 2000s somehow decided in near unanimous lockstep to stop producing 'too sexualized' looking female characters. Shame, theres tons of new amazing tech in computer graphics that could produce some cool stuff if only the pros that know it were allowed to work their magic.

Of course there is still some good work from amateurs and some like minded pros on their off time. But nowhere near the volume and quality it used to be. And completely absent from AA and up studios with maybe some very rare exceptions. Its sort of amazing how through the purge was. Like there is some hidden monarch that ordered it to be so.

 

[Wesley Willis]

Everything was better in the 2000s, and even better than that in the 90's, and depending on who you talk to, the 80's. I would take any of those three decades right now over the 2010s in a heartbeat. And that's just for the economic prosperity, irrespective of the cultural downward spiral we've seen for the past nine years.

The 2010's brought us SJWs, bronies, politispergs, Antifa, BLM, the alt-right, and all the things I couldn't stand in moderation before the 2010's being cranked to eleven as of now.

I fully expect an economic bed-shitting followed by consistent street violence and everywhere just becomes super-Compton.

wut

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

wut

View attachment 6068720

That's the end of the 2000s.

 

[Wesley Willis]

That's the end of the 2000s.

Because they refused to admit that we were in a recession until the very end. The entire decade was based on a lie. The Case-Shiller Housing Index peaked in 2006. Gas prices went from $1.44 to almost $4 nationally in just over 5 years. People were struggling and no one wanted to admit it until the shit literally hit the fan.

 

[Never Scored]

wut

View attachment 6068720

The pre great recession 2000s had a much better job and housing market than we have now. It's not even a comparison, frankly. More full time jobs and housing was attainable for most of the population. Plus, even though we all know official inflation numbers are bullshit, it was still lower in the 2000s than it has been recently.

The Case-Shiller Housing Index peaked in 2006.

But it is twice as high now. The concept behind this thread is the 2000s are better than the late 2010s/early 2020s, and the very chart you are citing perfectly demonstrates why.

 

[Ewan McGregor]

The pre great recession 2000s had a much better job and housing market than we have now. It's not even a comparison, frankly. More full time jobs and housing was attainable for most of the population. Plus, even though we all know official inflation numbers are bullshit, it was still lower in the 2000s than it has been recently.

But it is twice as high now. The concept behind this thread is the 2000s are better than the late 2010s/early 2020s, and the very chart you are citing perfectly demonstrates why.

If a lot of us knew what was in store for us, I assure you we would have played our cards different in the 00s

But hindsight is 2020

 

[The Feline Solution]

90's all the way for me, everything after 1999 just went shittier and shittier. I had good things happen in the early to mid 00's but i have a hard time even remembering what the fuck i even did in the '10's (just that it was kinda shit all over) and i am not THAT old. I typed this sentence often before but the 90's really should never have ended.

Speaking of skanky girl culture from the 00's I been thinking about the consequences of that

I fucking loved late 90's to early 00's skanks These days it's just shitty block eyebrows, shitty plastic surgery and fashion that isn't anywhere skanky enough for my tastes. Bring back thongs visibly sticking out of hip jeans, FUCK!

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Because they refused to admit that we were in a recession until the very end. The entire decade was based on a lie. The Case-Shiller Housing Index peaked in 2006. Gas prices went from $1.44 to almost $4 nationally in just over 5 years. People were struggling and no one wanted to admit it until the shit literally hit the fan.

This is fair, but vice versa:

The entire decade (and probably since the neoliberal 80s was when this began) was basically running on debt and Sally paying Fred, Fred paying Sam, and so forth.

You could argue that the economy 'felt' like it was going okay to many, because noone had really called in to cash out on that debt en masse till 2007 or so.

Its not quite as if people were struggling till the rug was pulled out from under them in 2007, but more that they just kept on taking on debt and it seemed like noone expected or had a plan to pay that back.

Saying that, jobs, the housing market, everything was a lot more simple, especially without the internet.

 

[Geddy Lee's Fee and See]

Saying that, jobs, the housing market, everything was a lot more simple, especially without the Internet.

FTFY. On a more serious note,

Life was a lot more simple in general when the Internet didn't interfere with it. Technology up until the 2007 was based around the idea that it was meant to augment your life, but not be intrusive upon it. You had a desktop/laptop, did work/game on it and then that was that. With smartphones (specifically smartphones combined with social media), technology is forced into every avenue of life past its necessary and wanted levels. I'm too young to remember the economic side of the 2000s (I'm only 28 ), but I do remember how normal interactions with people used to be compared to now. There are exceptions, but conversations last for less time, aren't centered around eye contact and good body language, are kinda cliquey to an irrational degree and just bad. There definitely were always people doing this in the past, but not to such an extreme and ubiquitous degree. Social media is psychologically dangerous and ought to be banned or at least heavily regulated or something, especially when combined with highly portable personal computing. The world would be better off if all these social media companies just stopped existing.

 

[cybertoaster]

but the 90's really should never have ended.

We all feel the same...

 

[DiscoRodeo]

I'm too young to remember the economic side of the 2000s (I'm only 28 ),

Honestly, just watch KotH or Malcolm in the Middle. These shows honestly capture a lot of the spirit of what being in the middle or lower middle class was like.

You can say that people were struggling, but its not really about the economics so much (and they were better back then. If that decade was a lie, its a lie we never recovered from or got back and we are even worse off now than before)

Life just now seems so much more atomized and fragmented. I don't want to get too much into accelerationist stuff, but youre right, social media and constantly being wired in and listless really has fucked with us as a society.

But some things I do miss- being able to walk into a place with a resume instead of sending hundreds out via email, job availability, prices, rents being reasonable, etc

 

[Wesley Willis]

The pre great recession 2000s had a much better job and housing market than we have now. It's not even a comparison, frankly. More full time jobs and housing was attainable for most of the population. Plus, even though we all know official inflation numbers are bullshit, it was still lower in the 2000s than it has been recently.

But it is twice as high now. The concept behind this thread is the 2000s are better than the late 2010s/early 2020s, and the very chart you are citing perfectly demonstrates why.

If it's higher now, that means it's a better time to sell your home. If you lost money on your home for a half-decade, how is that better?

Also, household income dipped for the entire decade, even before the recession. The FED kept blowing bubbles and wrecking purchasing power.

 

[Never Scored]

If it's higher now, that means it's a better time to sell your home. If you lost money on your home for a half-decade, how is that better?

1) Not everyone owns a home.

2) When housing costs rise rapidly in relation to income, it is bad for the economy:

Let's say I own a small restaurant. I employ ten other people. My business' income is dependent on people having the disposable income to eat at my restaurant. If their income is tied up in paying off a mortgage or rent that eats up a huge percentage of their income, they are not coming to my restaurant and I will have to close, putting my ten employees out of work. Even if I do manage to stay open, I am going to have to pay my employees more because they're likely not coming to work if they can't afford a place to live, meaning I have to increase my prices leading to inflation.

 

[Wesley Willis]

1) Not everyone owns a home.

2) When housing costs rise rapidly in relation to income it is bad for the economy.

That's exactly why 2008 was the worst recession ever. Homes were even more unaffordable in the 2000's, but the cheaper debt and looser loan criteria shielded the public from reality. The affordability index went from 4 to 7, the largest increase in history.

 

[Never Scored]

That's exactly why 2008 was the worst recession ever. Homes were even more unaffordable in the 2000's, but the cheaper debt and looser loan criteria shielded the public from reality. The affordability index went from 4 to 7, the largest increase in history.


View attachment 6080058

Again, that chart shows this problem is worse now and shows a steeper increase beginning around the time of the pandemic. The premise behind this thread is the 2000s were a better time to live than today. Here's a chart that shows where it currently is. Median house price vs income is substantially worse now than it was in the US in the 2000s. Look how much wider the gap is between median income and median housing costs compared to even the worst point in the 2000s:


It's like your talking points are from 2012.

Also, household income dipped for the entire decade, even before the recession. The FED kept blowing bubbles and wrecking purchasing power.

View attachment 6080039

This chart only goes up to 2018. Are you literally fucking retarded or did you have a stroke and forget the last six years happened?

 

[Wesley Willis]

Again, that chart shows this problem is worse now and shows a steeper increase beginning around the time of the pandemic. The premise behind this thread is the 2000s were a better time to live than today. Here's a chart that shows where it currently is. Median house price vs income is substantially worse now than it was in the US in the 2000s. Look how much wider the gap is between median income and median housing costs compared to even the worst point in the 2000s:

View attachment 6080071
It's like your talking points are from 2012.


This chart only goes up to 2018. Are you literally fucking retarded or did you have a stroke and forget the last six years happened?

That's using current US dollars and not the CPI deflator. Demand far outweighs supply, which is why prices keep going up. That also means homes are being sold. This is not the same as a liquidity trap like in 2008.

 

[Never Scored]

That's using current US dollars and not the CPI deflator. Demand far outweighs supply, which is why prices keep going up. That also means homes are being sold. This is not the same as a liquidity trap like in 2008.

The specific reason not really relevant. You've been making an argument about housing affordability. By every metric, housing is less affordable now than it was in the 2000s, regardless of the reason. Again, the chart you just posted ends in late 2021 and shows the affordability index spiking up to a higher point than it was in in 2008. The data on that chart if from nearly three years ago, and everything I can find indicates it's just gone higher since.

Like bro, you literally posted a chart and said, "Look how high this was in 2008," and the chart actually shows the number is higher now. That's your chart. It's not something I dug up. You posted a chart that shows housing is more unaffordable today and proceeded to cite it as a reason the 2000s were worse. Like, it literally shows the start of a sharper increase than the one you are citing as the sharpest in history.

Do you disagree with the premise that housing is less affordable now than it was in the 2000s? If you do, please post a chart that includes recent data showing otherwise. If you don't, congrats, you now understand why many people are nostalgic for the housing market of the 2000s.

 

[Wesley Willis]

The specific reason not really relevant. You've been making an argument about housing affordability , and by every metric housing is less affordable now than it was in the 2000s, regardless of the reason. Again, the chart you just posted ends in late 2021 and shows the affordability index spiking up to a higher point than it was in in 2008. The data on that chart if from nearly three years ago, and everything I can find indicates it's just gone higher since. Like bro, you literally posted a chart that says, "Look how high this was in 2008" that shows it being higher now.

Do you disagree with the premise that housing is less affordable now than it was in the 2000s? If you do, please post a chart that includes recent data showing otherwise. If you don't, congrats, you now understand why many people are nostalgic for the housing market of the 2000s.

The absolute number is higher today, the increase as a percentage of the index was greater from 2000-2006. The data on the chart is correct, however the presentation is wrong. It should be logarithmic. The Y axis is the price and income and not the ratio itself as show own on the right side, which makes the disparity look greater than it is. No way should 3.5-5.8 look so disparate.

The ratio went from 3.94 in 2000 to 5.14 in 2006. The last measurement says 5.81. The ratio changed by a factor of 1.2 in only 6 years. In 16 years thereafter, jumped by .67. It took 16 years for the ratio to increase by a little over half of what it did in only 6 years in the 2000's.

Here is the site. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/median-house-prices-vs-income-us/

Here is the data.

Date	Median House Sales Price	Median Household Income	Price-to-Income Ratio
1984-01-01	$78,200	$22,420	3.49
1985-01-01	$82,800	$23,620	3.51
1986-01-01	$88,000	$24,900	3.53
1987-01-01	$97,900	$26,060	3.76
1988-01-01	$110,000	$27,230	4.04
1989-01-01	$118,000	$28,910	4.08
1990-01-01	$123,900	$29,940	4.14
1991-01-01	$120,000	$30,130	3.98
1992-01-01	$119,500	$30,640	3.9
1993-01-01	$125,000	$31,240	4
1994-01-01	$130,000	$32,260	4.03
1995-01-01	$130,000	$34,080	3.81
1996-01-01	$137,000	$35,490	3.86
1997-01-01	$145,000	$37,010	3.92
1998-01-01	$152,200	$38,890	3.91
1999-01-01	$157,400	$40,700	3.87
2000-01-01	$165,300	$41,990	3.94
2001-01-01	$169,800	$42,230	4.02
2002-01-01	$188,700	$42,410	4.45
2003-01-01	$186,000	$43,320	4.29
2004-01-01	$212,700	$44,330	4.8
2005-01-01	$232,500	$46,330	5.02
2006-01-01	$247,700	$48,200	5.14
2007-01-01	$257,400	$50,230	5.12
2008-01-01	$233,900	$50,300	4.65
2009-01-01	$208,400	$49,780	4.19
2010-01-01	$222,900	$49,280	4.52
2011-01-01	$226,900	$50,050	4.53
2012-01-01	$238,400	$51,020	4.67
2013-01-01	$258,400	$53,590	4.82
2014-01-01	$275,200	$53,660	5.13
2015-01-01	$289,200	$56,520	5.12
2016-01-01	$299,800	$59,040	5.08
2017-01-01	$313,100	$61,140	5.12
2018-01-01	$331,800	$63,180	5.25
2019-01-01	$313,000	$68,700	4.56
2020-01-01	$329,000	$68,010	4.84
2021-01-01	$369,800	$70,780	5.22
2022-01-01	$433,100	$74,580	5.81

My final answer is, the housing market of the 2000's sucked so bad it's not worth mentioning as a homeowner and that being a renter is worse today.

 

[Never Scored]

The ratio went from 3.94 in 2000 to 5.14 in 2006. The last measurement says 5.81. The ratio changed by a factor of 1.2 in only 6 years. In 16 years thereafter, jumped by .67. It took 16 years for the ratio to increase by a little over half of what it did in only 6 years in the 2000's.

You're cherry picking numbers here. You're comparing a six year period to a 16-year one. By using inconsistently sized periods like that, you can make these numbers say whatever you want. If you go from 2019 to 2022, it's an increase of 1.25 in only four years, which is a steeper increase than 1.2 over six. You could say that 2019 was a drop from previous highs, and therefore that statement is inaccurate, but the same would also be true of the 2000 number, as the number had been higher in the 80s and 90s at several points. I could point to the 1990 number and subtract it from the 2010 number and state that the number only increased by 0.38 over that entire 20 years whereas it jumped by over three times that in just four years from 2019 to 2022. Do you see how comparing two random stretches of time is not incredibly useful?

Now, let's look at what you said previously with this chart in mind:

Homes were even more unaffordable in the 2000's, but the cheaper debt and looser loan criteria shielded the public from reality. The affordability index went from 4 to 7, the largest increase in history.

We've established that the price to income ratio is higher now, proving the statement "Homes were even more unaffordable in the 2000's" objectively wrong. As for the second point, there is no single year jump on that chart as big as the one from 2021 to 2022, and the four year period leading up to 2022 has a bigger increase than the six year period leading up to 2006. Is it fair to pick a random six year period and say to say the "largest increase in history" was in the 2000s or is it more accurate to say the biggest year over year increase in history was from 2021 to 2022?

 

[DiscoRodeo]

2022-01-01

$433,100

$74,580

5.81

My final answer is, the housing market of the 2000's sucked so bad it's not worth mentioning as a homeowner and that being a renter is worse today.

I hate dumb cherry picking like this because:


Its like people either purposely dont want to understand stats, or are just cherry picking data to try to support an argument of "well actually the 2000s had a worse housing market than today".

They didn't, even by your own metrics, but even if you try to use stats like this, theres dumb things embedded in there like no, most people are not earning 74500 in the US today.

So including the billionaires the average was 50k in 2008, and now including the billionaires its 74.5k.

This could either be people getting a 50% pay increase on average (lol, lmao even), or the billionaires have taken in a hell of a lot more money.
Oh, wait,


There you go.