Unschooling - We don't need no education.

[DefunctChip]

I may be powerleveling here but unschooling is the cruelest thing you can do to a kid, and this is from someone who was homeschooled for the last two years of high school. Difference is that it was under a program monitored by teaching aids who visited the students and followed proper curriculum while encouraging the homeschooled students to get together and hang out. But unschooling? It's pretty much the college for learning how to be a maladjusted, dependent twit with STEM skills that are so shitty that a forth grader could probably compete and win against you in the job market. And of course, because mommy and daddy are probably always doting on them while they unschool, the kid will more than likely end up with a massive superior complex despite that fact.

I have a slightly more open view to homeschooling because it can be properly controlled by state curriculum, but unschooling is just ridiculous. Its literally picking your child out of your twat, holding them up, and saying "I want you to fail". I like kids and I kinda would like to see them succeed, truth be told, and I simply cannot understand how someone could do this shit and honestly think their kid is benefiting from it.

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

It's been years since she's done a comic; I wonder how her kids are doing.



It's sad how some people can get so wrapped up in at looking at the past that they can't see what's going on in front of them.

The FPlus has a episode of stuff from Mothering.com that they read out to you. (Jump to 36:00 to get to the unschooling section.) Prepare to be mad at how lousy these moms are on the subject.

IIRC she disowned one, and I believe another one committed suicide. No surprise there.

 

[Hummingbird]

IIRC she disowned one, and I believe another one committed suicide. No surprise there.

How did this happen?

 

[From The Uncanny Valley]

How did this happen?

I just heard it from someone

 

[Trilby]

I may be powerleveling here but unschooling is the cruelest thing you can do to a kid, and this is from someone who was homeschooled for the last two years of high school. Difference is that it was under a program monitored by teaching aids who visited the students and followed proper curriculum while encouraging the homeschooled students to get together and hang out. But unschooling? It's pretty much the college for learning how to be a maladjusted, dependent twit with STEM skills that are so shitty that a forth grader could probably compete and win against you in the job market. And of course, because mommy and daddy are probably always doting on them while they unschool, the kid will more than likely end up with a massive superior complex despite that fact.

I have a slightly more open view to homeschooling because it can be properly controlled by state curriculum, but unschooling is just ridiculous. Its literally picking your child out of your twat, holding them up, and saying "I want you to fail". I like kids and I kinda would like to see them succeed, truth be told, and I simply cannot understand how someone could do this shit and honestly think their kid is benefiting from it.

It is a shame, especially in a world where having at least a high school diploma or GED can get you somewhere.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

This is generally another example of how exceptional parents can be when it comes to raising their children. Please note that I do not hold any ill will towards my parents, because I've always experienced them as sane. I'm writing this because parents like the ones shown here generally piss me off.

Over the course of history, parents have often found ways to royally fuck up their children, all while claiming that everything they do, no matter how exceptional/dumb/cruel, is "for their own good". For a long period (and still today, but not as openly) the preferred method was beating the shit out of the children and manitpulating them emotionally. Now one can claim that the generation that experienced this was more resilient and less spoiled than today's, but that was because society was much harsher back then and did not tolerate any deviance, and especially not criticism of one's own parents. Only now people are coming out about the psychological damage this form of parenting has done. People back then just had to suck it up and live with it because they had no other choice, but many people coming from this generation are in fact deeply fucked up.

Later on, parents became overly protective of their children and started shielding them from the harshness of real life. These parents screwd up their children by robbing them of the ability to function independently and, like those mentioned above, made them very docile, constantly having to fear the authority of their parents looming over them. While the children of the first example were usually driven by avoiding punishment, the "helicopter parents'" children will constantly feel the need to ask for permission to do anything.

Then we have excessive coddling and not giving any limits. This doesn't need to be discussed here, CWC is a very good example of what this leads to.

Then we have homeschoolers who try to shield children from anything that doesn't gel with their (the parents') ideology, thus indoctrinating them, anti-vaxxers who think that vaccinatinations cause autism () or are against God or some other bullshit reason, and would rather have their child suffer a potentially fatal infection.


And then there's this. This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard. They don't teach their children jack shit? Yeah, great. These children might as well have been born with a debilitating disorder that causes mental exceptionalism. These parents are actively creating exceptional individuals. The kids won't even be flipping burgers at McDonald's. The result of this will only be complete dumbasses, unable to contribute anything to society.

Sorry for the rant. It just ticks me off when parents fuck up their children so hard.

No need to apologize, I'm sure most of us here would agree regardless. I sure do at least. And it brings up point I made a page or so ago- It's baffling these parents are even allowed to be parents, given the shit they put their kids through. I didn't have a happy childhood growing up either, but I can safely say I wasn't as mistreated as these kids were/are.

It astounds me to no end how these people are still able to raise their children, without having child protective services take them to a family who'd actually give a damn about raising kids. Or hell, seek help for themselves. Though I'm sure they'd brush off any help that'd actually come their way.

That, of course returns me to the topic at hand- their child's education. I can understand Homeschooling. I have no issue in regards to that, especially if the parent knows what he/she is doing or hires a tutor. The problem is that this isn't even homeschooling, it's just the parents breeding them to be the next basement dweller. One who'll never even leave the basement because most jobs require you to have had some education behind you.

 

[Drago]

I came across a raging den of unschoolers by accident. Horrifying bunch. They were also anti-vax, homebirth nuts too. But sticking to the topic, they were all discussing unschooling, and how it was the best way to treat your child with respect. They believed that saying no was disrespectful, and instead you should always either say yes or have a gentle discussion. Unschooling furthered that because you could always joyfully say YES to whatever they were interested in, and you would never dull your child's light by sending them to a school full of drones and sheep. For real. Probably goes without saying that those were some of the most poorly behaved kids I have ever met, and those morons just watched their nasty spawn with these blankly benevolent smiles. Fuuuuck that. I got my kids out of there at top speed.

 

[Lalala]

I came across a raging den of unschoolers by accident. Horrifying bunch. They were also anti-vax, homebirth nuts too. But sticking to the topic, they were all discussing unschooling, and how it was the best way to treat your child with respect. They believed that saying no was disrespectful, and instead you should always either say yes or have a gentle discussion. Unschooling furthered that because you could always joyfully say YES to whatever they were interested in, and you would never dull your child's light by sending them to a school full of drones and sheep. For real. Probably goes without saying that those were some of the most poorly behaved kids I have ever met, and those morons just watched their nasty spawn with these blankly benevolent smiles. Fuuuuck that. I got my kids out of there at top speed.

This whole 'school breeds mindless drones' shtick really does get tiresome after a while. The fact is, at least in the UK, yes there is a lot of beaurocratic bullshit going on with policies changing on a whim, inspections out the arse and teachers having to triple stamp everything to get it up to speed so, yes unfortunately, teachers don't have the time to make every single lesson a fantastical amazing showcase specifically tailored to a specific child's likes and wants and sometimes yes little Timmy is gonna be copying notes off the board or doing a worksheet instead of rolling in the mud or playing minecraft all day.
But the fact is that learning to deal with being bored, doing mundane tasks and just getting through the day...that's actually valuable training for the working world. Not every child is gonna have a dynamic or artistic job that allows them to be creative, not every child is gonna be a doctor or a scientist. Some children will grow up to be data analysts, economists, lawyers, admin workers, all jobs that can require extensive periods of sitting at a desk typing away at something they find tedious but they know they need to get finished within an allotted time. And all that boredom in school suddenly seems worth it when big Tim is taking home a six figure paycheck while dumbass Dave, who spent his whole childhood dicking about on xbox because his mum thought gears of war was 'increasing his hand eye coordination' , is working a zero hour job in Maccers making about as much in a month as Tim can in a day.

That's the cold reality and something these parents dont want to acknowledge, succeeding in our current economic climate (without an amazing talent and a shit load of luck) takes being bored and doing things you don't want to now and then. Any kid who's raised not knowing that is gonna have a shit work ethic and probably spend their time as a minimum wage peon serving the 'drone children' you were too busy looking down on to educate your own fucking kid.

 

[Potatomongrel]

Some parents probably watched this and thought, "Wow. That's a syllabus right there if I do say so myself. Fuck school! I hated it." They opened their laptops; Googled; made goals for their sons and daughters and pulled them out of school. Three weeks later, they realised that they were shitty teachers. Their children were acting out; didn't listen to them and weren't doing their homework. Now they've given up and don't know what the fuck to do besides take their bundles of joy out for ice-cream and cook their three meals a day knowing that the futures of their children are bleak.

Teaching is difficult and requires skill that these parents do not have. This was going to be a joke, but I'm so disgusted, I couldn't find a punchline.

 

[Un Platano]

I had expected that these are lazy parents who just let their kids sit around playing Minecraft all day.
http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1573609-ways-learn-math-without-workbook.html

Algebra – Computer games such as Graal, Minecraft etc.

But it's worse than that: they don't just let it happen, they actively encourage it as an alternative to math.

 

[Hummingbird]

Some parents probably watched this and thought, "Wow. That's a syllabus right there if I do say so myself. Fuck school! I hated it." They opened their laptops; Googled; made goals for their sons and daughters and pulled them out of school. Three weeks later, they realised that they were shitty teachers. Their children were acting out; didn't listen to them and weren't doing their homework. Now they've given up and don't know what the fuck to do besides take their bundles of joy out for ice-cream and cook their three meals a day knowing that the futures of their children are bleak.

Teaching is difficult and requires skill that these parents do not have. This was going to be a joke, but I'm so disgusted, I couldn't find a punchline.

If you want the kids to learn these things help them learn it or start a club dedicated to learning about of our rights, finances and such.

Other than that, what do you guys think of homeschooling that involves hiring a professional tutor for the kids?

 

[Petronella]

They believed that saying no was disrespectful, and instead you should always either say yes or have a gentle discussion. Unschooling furthered that because you could always joyfully say YES to whatever they were interested in, and you would never dull your child's light by sending them to a school full of drones and sheep.

This sort of thing seems to be a growing movement in parenting, and I don't know if it's because they think it's best for the child so much as the parents are just lazy. Case in point:

Spoiler: powerlevel

A while back there was some post that came up on my Facebook about parents complaining about things their kids do that they hate. I commented that in that case maybe the parents should tell their kids not to do that, and I got fucking dogpiled with comments from indignant moms telling me I "obviously don't have kids" because, I shit you not, according to them every parent learns sooner or later that it's easier to just let your kids always have their way because otherwise you have to deal with them throwing a fit and that's annoying. The future of America, everybody.

That aside though, I can't see any way that this type of "parenting" or "education" wouldn't just breed a generation of entitled brats. Kids are naturally selfish and entitled, part of parenting is teaching them the world doesn't revolve around them. How do you plan to accomplish that by telling them they don't need to go to school because heaven forbid little Snotleigh might have to do something he finds boring?

Other than that, what do you guys think of homeschooling that involves hiring a professional tutor for the kids?

Depends on the situation. My inclination would be to say that if you're bringing in an outside tutor you may as well just send the kid to school at that point, but it would also depend on stuff like how far away you live from a school, if the kid is disabled, etc etc.

 

[Trilby]

I came across a raging den of unschoolers by accident. Horrifying bunch. They were also anti-vax, homebirth nuts too. But sticking to the topic, they were all discussing unschooling, and how it was the best way to treat your child with respect. They believed that saying no was disrespectful, and instead you should always either say yes or have a gentle discussion. Unschooling furthered that because you could always joyfully say YES to whatever they were interested in, and you would never dull your child's light by sending them to a school full of drones and sheep. For real. Probably goes without saying that those were some of the most poorly behaved kids I have ever met, and those morons just watched their nasty spawn with these blankly benevolent smiles. Fuuuuck that. I got my kids out of there at top speed.

Wouldn't want to be in that rat's nest.

This whole 'school breeds mindless drones' shtick really does get tiresome after a while. The fact is, at least in the UK, yes there is a lot of beaurocratic bullshit going on with policies changing on a whim, inspections out the arse and teachers having to triple stamp everything to get it up to speed so, yes unfortunately, teachers don't have the time to make every single lesson a fantastical amazing showcase specifically tailored to a specific child's likes and wants and sometimes yes little Timmy is gonna be copying notes off the board or doing a worksheet instead of rolling in the mud or playing minecraft all day.
But the fact is that learning to deal with being bored, doing mundane tasks and just getting through the day...that's actually valuable training for the working world. Not every child is gonna have a dynamic or artistic job that allows them to be creative, not every child is gonna be a doctor or a scientist. Some children will grow up to be data analysts, economists, lawyers, admin workers, all jobs that can require extensive periods of sitting at a desk typing away at something they find tedious but they know they need to get finished within an allotted time. And all that boredom in school suddenly seems worth it when big Tim is taking home a six figure paycheck while dumbass Dave, who spent his whole childhood dicking about on xbox because his mum thought gears of war was 'increasing his hand eye coordination' , is working a zero hour job in Maccers making about as much in a month as Tim can in a day.

That's the cold reality and something these parents dont want to acknowledge, succeeding in our current economic climate (without an amazing talent and a shit load of luck) takes being bored and doing things you don't want to now and then. Any kid who's raised not knowing that is gonna have a shit work ethic and probably spend their time as a minimum wage peon serving the 'drone children' you were too busy looking down on to educate your own fucking kid.

And the "Haves" and "Have Nots" continue to divide further.

I had expected that these are lazy parents who just let their kids sit around playing Minecraft all day.
http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1573609-ways-learn-math-without-workbook.html

But it's worse than that: they don't just let it happen, they actively encourage it as an alternative to math.

I was more amused at this entry....

Roman numerals – Read “Asterix and Obelisk” books.

Bitch can't even spell Obelix right!

This sort of thing seems to be a growing movement in parenting, and I don't know if it's because they think it's best for the child so much as the parents are just lazy. Case in point:

Spoiler: powerlevel

A while back there was some post that came up on my Facebook about parents complaining about things their kids do that they hate. I commented that in that case maybe the parents should tell their kids not to do that, and I got fucking dogpiled with comments from indignant moms telling me I "obviously don't have kids" because, I shit you not, according to them every parent learns sooner or later that it's easier to just let your kids always have their way because otherwise you have to deal with them throwing a fit and that's annoying. The future of America, everybody.

Is it no wonder dads don't use the belt anymore?

That aside though, I can't see any way that this type of "parenting" or "education" wouldn't just breed a generation of entitled brats. Kids are naturally selfish and entitled, part of parenting is teaching them the world doesn't revolve around them. How do you plan to accomplish that by telling them they don't need to go to school because heaven forbid little Snotleigh might have to do something he finds boring?

I dread to think of a future like that.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Algebra – Computer games such as Graal, Minecraft etc.

This is such a wonderful way of learning Algebra.

Other than that, what do you guys think of homeschooling that involves hiring a professional tutor for the kids?

There's tons of onlining tutoring that you can use in addition to textbooks in addition to DVD courses for cheap, and if you wanna pay a decent amount of Money you have stuff like GradPoint that you can have the kids enroll in.

Spoiler: Powerlevel

When I was enrolled in Highschool after being homeschooled all my life the school offered me to get enrolled with NovaNET Courseware (old name for GradPoint) and I did it and just had to check weekly with a school teacher to make sure I was doing ok. I still did tests like WASL and had to do some community stuff but I got my Highschool diploma Just mentioned this because what I talked about is something that you can get from a school or either personally purchase but it would be Public School Tier Education.

Really my main beef with all this that we're talking about is that what these parents are doing is that there are tons, and tons of resources for the kids to learn from and get their kids to succeed even if you choose an non-orthodox style of learning, but instead they piss it all away and turn their kids into pretty much parasites all the while gloating to themselves and getting asspats by saying that they are doing something different than the mainstream.

 

[Trilby]

This is such a wonderful way of learning Algebra.



There's tons of onlining tutoring that you can use in addition to textbooks in addition to DVD courses for cheap, and if you wanna pay a decent amount of Money you have stuff like GradPoint that you can have the kids enroll in.

Spoiler: Powerlevel

When I was enrolled in Highschool after being homeschooled all my life the school offered me to get enrolled with NovaNET Courseware (old name for GradPoint) and I did it and just had to check weekly with a school teacher to make sure I was doing ok. I still did tests like WASL and had to do some community stuff but I got my Highschool diploma Just mentioned this because what I talked about is something that you can get from a school or either personally purchase but it would be Public School Tier Education.

Really my main beef with all this that we're talking about is that what these parents are doing is that there are tons, and tons of resources for the kids to learn from and get their kids to succeed even if you choose an non-orthodox style of learning, but instead they piss it all away and turn their kids into pretty much parasites all the while gloating to themselves and getting asspats by saying that they are doing something different than the mainstream.

Real losers in the end.

 

[DefunctChip]

I came across a raging den of unschoolers by accident. Horrifying bunch. They were also anti-vax, homebirth nuts too. But sticking to the topic, they were all discussing unschooling, and how it was the best way to treat your child with respect. They believed that saying no was disrespectful, and instead you should always either say yes or have a gentle discussion. Unschooling furthered that because you could always joyfully say YES to whatever they were interested in, and you would never dull your child's light by sending them to a school full of drones and sheep. For real. Probably goes without saying that those were some of the most poorly behaved kids I have ever met, and those morons just watched their nasty spawn with these blankly benevolent smiles. Fuuuuck that. I got my kids out of there at top speed.

Saying yes to everything a child wants.

I...I can't comprehend this. Gimme a few minutes here.

You are not your child's FRIEND. You are not trying to PLACATE your child. It is your job as a parent to make sure that they grow up and are adjusted to dwell in an everyday, normal human society both intellectually and socially. If you say 'yes' to every stupid whim they have then eventually they'll have grown up and you'll be saying 'yes' to them living in your basement with no job and plans to become an astronaut without any college credentials. And then when the parent dies you'll have a person who basically cannot function in society.

I'm not saying you CAN'T be a friend to your child, but a parent is not a friend to a child in the traditional definition of the word. There is a structure of power and responsibility there that means the child will innately look to the parent for guidance and authority. They don't just give the child advice, they give the child some of the most basic structures for what it even means to be a functioning human. And by teaching them that 'no' is not something they should adhere to, they are depriving the child of the understanding of a basic human function: restraint.

 

[Trilby]

Saying yes to everything a child wants.

I...I can't comprehend this. Gimme a few minutes here.

You are not your child's FRIEND. You are not trying to PLACATE your child. It is your job as a parent to make sure that they grow up and are adjusted to dwell in an everyday, normal human society both intellectually and socially. If you say 'yes' to every stupid whim they have then eventually they'll have grown up and you'll be saying 'yes' to them living in your basement with no job and plans to become an astronaut without any college credentials. And then when the parent dies you'll have a person who basically cannot function in society.

I'm not saying you CAN'T be a friend to your child, but a parent is not a friend to a child in the traditional definition of the word. There is a structure of power and responsibility there that means the child will innately look to the parent for guidance and authority. They don't just give the child advice, they give the child some of the most basic structures for what it even means to be a functioning human. And by teaching them that 'no' is not something they should adhere to, they are depriving the child of a the understanding of a basic human function: restraint.

See, you get it! These people sure don't.

 

[Scampers]

I think the most frustrating thing is that "unschooling" in this form is detrimental to a kid. Yes, as far as the American education system goes, there are blatant problems; forcing a one-size-fits-all approach to learning, forcing kids to memorize useless information for the sake of state testing, etc.

However, after being out of school, the most important thing you could learn is that sometimes, in order to achieve what you really want, you will have to do some things you don't want. When I was a teen I didn't want to do fucking shit with math and would rather just play vidya all day, but by being made to learn all these formulas and equations, it helped me challenge myself in an area I wasn't good in. My goal at the time was to graduate from high school, so in order to get that, I had to force myself through boring shit.

The issue with unschooling is that it creates an environment where no kid is ever challenged, because like all humans, we love to take the easy route. It squanders any potential, because while little Billy might love to be a rocket scientist, fuck it if he's ever going to sit down and teach himself basic algebra.

It also removes the experience of failure. I certainly hate how the school system arbitrarily deems a student passing/failing based on memorization of random factoids, but it's very beneficial to have a kid fail early on. It's easier to cry over an F in third grade and pick yourself up again than to experience failure going to college - if these kids will ever see that be a reality.

 

[FemalePresident]

What's the point of this? To create more illiterate rednecks and exceptional individuals?

 

[PyrrhicRustle]

On top of everything else, a common complaint of the school system seems to be "I'm never going to use this" especially in relation to math and science. It's true that most kids might not use Trigonometry after high school, but a few still will, and most of them don't know if they want to do something that will require them to know it. It would be unfair if to deprive them of opportunities they don't even know they have yet by giving them a lesser education in math or science.