Unschooling - We don't need no education.

[NG 070]

IIRC she disowned one, and I believe another one committed suicide. No surprise there.

How did this happen?

Allegedly, one of her kids did an edit or a parody of her Hathor comics, where she rolled over onto one of her babies in bed and killed it. But I think that and the possible suicide were never 100% verified. She still mentions to this day that she has four kids and hasn't popped out a baby in years, so maybe those claims are false.

Also, she might've been a good candidate for a Lolcow back in the day herself with her batshit insane opinions/comics/beliefs, but aside from the fact she's long since moved on from comics and art to writing books (of dubious quality), Heather/Hathor seems like she's capable of not engaging with or feeding trolls. Good for her, I guess?

 

[TiggerNits]

This reminds me of my wife's story. When she was 12-16 her parents were crazy protective of her and made her do homeschooling because they didn't want her getting knocked up. She aced all her homeschool classes but they realized that she wasn't actually learning anything and when they both got work where they'd have to travel around the state (Both her parents were wildfire fighters then) so they put her in public school. She had a super low GPA and got caught sleeping with two assistant coaches for the football team because she had no idea how to handle the small amount of freedom she had been given. They put her in a Mormon-run private school after that and despite not being Mormon, they were super good to her and got her back on track pretty fast. They then made sure not to repeat the mistake though and stopped trying to home-school her three younger sisters.

Because thats the open secret no one seems to admit about school in the US. It's not really as much about learning shit, it's about how you interact with your peers and superiors and teaching you how to deal with the everyday bullshit you'll have regardless of the profession you take up. I graduated High school, university and even grad school with 4.0-3.8 GPAs, I feel like I really didn't learn anything too specific from any of it, but it prepared me for the real world and the surreal reality of the military by teaching me people I worked with were going to be varied in their ability, intelligence and reliability and to assume my superiors didn't give a shit so I would have to make sure I was doing what I needed to without encouragement or oversight.

These poor kids are going to be so fucked because they'll never adapt to a real work life, they'll only know making their idiot parents happy and how the other side of the political, racial and/or financial spectrum is literally the devil.

 

[ZeCommissar]

I really hope this stupid shit is illegal, and tantamount to child abuse that gets your kids taken away if you're that fucking stupid to try this shit.

 

[King Kong... with wings?]

I really hope this stupid shit is illegal, and tantamount to child abuse that gets your kids taken away if you're that fucking stupid to try this shit.

not in 'murica

What's the point of this? To create more illiterate rednecks and exceptional individuals?

in the grand scheme of things, it helps politicians because you have a bunch of morons you can control and they will be none the wiser to any shit you pull

 

[ZeCommissar]

Might as well go back to the dark ages, where all you knew is how to farm and only the priest in town was the one that could actually read, only for the buybull.

What i'm interested in, is how do these kids turn out? Any success stories? Any stories of kids being like Chris?

EDIT: Oh, and what about their social life? Most of my friends were from my school, so I honestly wonder...

 

[AN/ALR56]

You know I had a super protected colleague in my high school.
It was sad, he was 17 and wasn't allowed to go at night,stayed his free time on his family shop working for free or studying for med school,he couldn't shut up about nerdy stuff and we sperged about things,then during the 2nd and 3rd year we stopped talking, me and another nerdy dude just grew up, we went to parties and got shitfaced and he dint because his mom dint allowed it.
He even had a Minecraft channel where his mom personally approved or censored his videos.
He had some girls taking a interest on him,but because he was so secluded he dint knew what to do and friendzoned them.
At our prom night he danced with his mom and drinked water and left 20 mins after the start of the night because his mom "smelled weed".
Today, years after he dint change and is still living with his parents,who forced him to study to be in med school,despite showing no interest about it.
TLR: don't control and overprotect your kids or they will be fucked up

 

[Lalala]

You know I had a super protected colleague in my high school.
It was sad, he was 17 and wasn't allowed to go at night,stayed his free time on his family shop working for free or studying for med school,he couldn't shut up about nerdy stuff and we sperged about things,then during the 2nd and 3rd year we stopped talking, me and another nerdy dude just grew up, we went to parties and got shitfaced and he dint because his mom dint allowed it.
He even had a Minecraft channel where his mom personally approved or censored his videos.
He had some girls taking a interest on him,but because he was so secluded he dint knew what to do and friendzoned them.
At our prom night he danced with his mom and drinked water and left 20 mins after the start of the night because his mom "smelled weed".
Today, years after he dint change and is still living with his parents,who forced him to study to be in med school,despite showing no interest about it.
TLR: don't control and overprotect your kids or they will be fucked up

This little cautionary tale can be surprisingly common with parents of younger children, it just seems unschoolers are the ones who can't snap out of it. Basically it boils down to parents not comprehending that their children are not mini versions of them with the same likes, goals or aspirations, so they'll deny the kids opportunities that they themselves would otherwise take. Unschoolers don't like how schools are run and assume their kids won't either so they deny them the chance to even try it out.
Good example is in a nursery i worked at one little girl loved reading, she would go nuts whenever we got new books and would beg one of the nursery nurses to sit and teach her words for long periods of time. When we got curious and asked her mother about it the mother seemed to get annoyed and all but dragged her daughter out. Next day the daughter comes in upset and avoids the books, despite us getting a couple of new ones. We ask why and, shit you not, the mother had yelled at her for reading since its "useless and for stupid people". We nicknamed the girl 'Matilda' and taught her anyway for a couple of months until the mum pulled her out.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

I really hope this stupid shit is illegal, and tantamount to child abuse that gets your kids taken away if you're that fucking stupid to try this shit.

Unfortunately @King Kong... with wings? is right. America's allowed to get away with a lot of stupid things. It astonishes me how they're still a relatively major power at this point.

 

[Trilby]

This little cautionary tale can be surprisingly common with parents of younger children, it just seems unschoolers are the ones who can't snap out of it. Basically it boils down to parents not comprehending that their children are not mini versions of them with the same likes, goals or aspirations, so they'll deny the kids opportunities that they themselves would otherwise take. Unschoolers don't like how schools are run and assume their kids won't either so they deny them the chance to even try it out.
Good example is in a nursery i worked at one little girl loved reading, she would go nuts whenever we got new books and would beg one of the nursery nurses to sit and teach her words for long periods of time. When we got curious and asked her mother about it the mother seemed to get annoyed and all but dragged her daughter out. Next day the daughter comes in upset and avoids the books, despite us getting a couple of new ones. We ask why and, shit you not, the mother had yelled at her for reading since its "useless and for stupid people". We nicknamed the girl 'Matilda' and taught her anyway for a couple of months until the mum pulled her out.

God, what a horrible mother.

Unfortunately @King Kong... with wings? is right. America's allowed to get away with a lot of stupid things. It astonishes me how they're still a relatively major power at this point.

Let alone the people running for office that STILL believe it.

 

[DefunctChip]

I just realized I never noticed King Kong with Wings's username because his icon always distracted me so much.

Anyhow. The bar of what's legal regarding school in America (and many first world countries, actually) is pretty unclear and yet stupid clear at the same time. They have to have some claim that they're following the curriculum that the child will need to achieve a high school GED. Unschooling is sort of a barely legal loophole--its claimed as 'homeschooling' despite providing little to none of the desired curriculum necessities. Using the claim of being a 'form of homeschooling', they manage to limbo under the bar of acceptability by using homeschooling as a cover. And technically, that's true--homeschool IS legal in all American states. But I think we've established that unschooling isn't homeschooling.

So basically, no, unschooling is not legal and they're just using a bulletproof jacket of 'it's actually homeschooling and homeschooling is legal in all states'. And, well, if no one CALLS them on it then nothing will actually happen. There's too many kids in the country for the state board to be fucked over some exceptional kids who can't let go of mommy's nipple at the age of fifteen.

 

[bradsternum]

I knew some unschoolers, and they didn't know fuck all about jack shit. Now, they're living in a gender-queer hippie community in Massachusetts, broke, and working in retail.

I don't have an issue with homeschooling, really, provided that the reason for pulling the kid from school isn't related to religious lunacy or some kind of control issue - and, provided that they socialize the god damned kid.

 

[Dat Sped]

... provided that they socialize the god damned kid.

There lies the problem with homeschooled/unschooled kids. A lot of them go that route because their kids get bullied at school. Instead of telling their kids to toughen up, they decide to shelter them further. You know, since they rest of the world should cater to what their kid wants.

Teaching kids how to stand up in a confrontational situation is important. What these parents don't realize is, aside from their kids being morons, they'll be weak-willed and cowardly morons with a HUGE sense of unwarranted self-importance.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

or some kind of control issue

Really, this is what it boils down to. What better way to ensure full control over your child than to keep them in the dark about literally everything, only giving them the information you WANT them to have?

 

[Taargus]

What i'm interested in, is how do these kids turn out? Any success stories? Any stories of kids being like Chris?

The guy who made that 'Ultimate Showdown' flash from the early 2000s was unschooled. He got helldumped on SA at 13, if that counts as a success story

 

[AN/ALR56]

I should stop reading this thread.
It's not funny, yeah they are retarded speds who should be laughed at but their idiocy doesn't affect only them, it affects innocent children for the rest of their lives.
This is Criminal , and is probably one of the worse forms of abuse.
I can't believe fucking america has people that keep their children away from books because "reading is stupid "
Even the poorest communities here ( I went as a kid with my mom which was a volunteer in a child protection NGO)
All the parents wanted their kids to go to school, parents who were amazed they had never learned how to read and saw their kids in college.
Education is the fastest way out of poverty, prevents diseases and a early death, promotes self esteem and confidence.
I don't know why people in one of the most competitive and capitalist countries deny their kids the most basic education.

 

[Valkorion]

America's allowed to get away with a lot of stupid things. It astonishes me how they're still a relatively major power at this point.

I think this is because people like unschoolers are very small, albeit vocal, minorities. The majority of people in America are ordinary westerners who have steady jobs, a somewhat decent education (probably still better than in most other countries) and send their kids to a bog standard school. The only thing that sets them apart from most other westerners will be the relative religiosity, which is indeed paradoxical for a developed country, but that's a discussion for another day. Personally, I am not American, but this post here is just my guess. "Outsiders" only hear the stupid shit because the majority of Americans is nothing out of the ordinary. But I will concur that there is a lot of shit you can get away with in America, while some other things won't fly there.

 

[Scrotus]

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Really, this is what it boils down to. What better way to ensure full control over your child than to keep them in the dark about literally everything, only giving them the information you WANT them to have?

Can confirm. The "unschoolers" I know have an obese mother who does literally NOTHING (they live in filthy, disgusting filth, and of course the kids have no concept of chores or basic responsibilities) who encourages the oldest to become just as much of a hambeast as she is. Another kid is a 'non binary' tumblrina. Besides the "unschooling" the parents also force their nasty unfounded dietary restrictions on their kids. It seems to me that these particular parents are damaged by their own childhoods (that's another can of worms) to the point where they are dependent on their own children, and their children's dependence on them. I haaaaate this shit so much, but at least there's a thread to leave my dirty, crapped unschooling briefs.

 

[Sperglord Dante]

On top of everything else, a common complaint of the school system seems to be "I'm never going to use this" especially in relation to math and science.

Joke's on them, if you can't handle math there's no use for you on a perpetually shrinking job market (sup automatization) where STEM is the only growing field.

 

[Scrotus]

Joke's on them, if you can't handle math there's no use for you on a perpetually shrinking job market (sup automatization) where STEM is the only growing field.

Truth. Also, even if they wanted to encourage their kids to be some artsy fartsy creative type, why deny them a basic premise, at least, for other subjects that they may also have a knack for? A great teacher can make a kid interested in just about anything. These parents have got to be the worst "teachers" on planet earth.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Every now and then I feel insecure with unschooling. Our almost 8 year old can't read and so now I am feeling very insecure.

http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1284958-almost-8-year-old-not-reading.html

Good advice for getting an 8 year old to finally read

Comics or manga are a good way to get kids reading and I second the video game recommendation. Anything that's an RPG would probably do the trick. Pokemon, Paper Mario, etc. are all very fun and require reading. I think the desire to be able to play games without needing me to read it to her is what made my niece improve with reading.

If he has a nintendo ds there is an awesome game called Scribblenauts. It's how my dd learned to read