Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[perry 23 tack]

Remember when I posted this?

Yeah, so someone from tumblr did some digging and found out that HB, throughout the two seasons of its runtime, has gone through 444 animators.
Holy fucking shit... How incompetent do you have to be to achieve this? INSANITY

View attachment 6155920

Spoiler: Tumblr Post

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To compare, HH only had 62 animators in season one.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the hundreds of animators and cleanup artists went to the insanely overdesigned Queen Bee-lzebub that probably wasn't just a nightmare to animate, but a bigger nightmare to clean up. Take into account Stolas' cape, intricately animated fight scenes that Hazbin avoided, and the numerous background demons at Blitzo's ex party.

Like there's a reason Amazon/A24 simplified the designs and animation for Hazbin. If they were to follow Viv's animation process, like Helluva, the entire thing would go more overbudget and time than Waterworld.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Remember when I posted this?

Yeah, so someone from tumblr did some digging and found out that HB, throughout the two seasons of its runtime, has gone through 444 animators.
Holy fucking shit... How incompetent do you have to be to achieve this? INSANITY

View attachment 6155920

Spoiler: Tumblr Post

View attachment 6155911View attachment 6155912View attachment 6155913View attachment 6155914

To compare, HH only had 62 animators in season one.

The amount of animators HB has is closer to the amount of fucking animators that Demon Slayer has.

 

[perry 23 tack]

If it reaches to the thousands in Season 3, please do quote this reply because I know it's not gonna get any better from here.

Well, that assumes that any animator/cleanup artist is going to want to work with her after the Millie suicide episode airs. Plus once the NDAs from several hundreds of ex-Spindlehorse employees expire and they finally expose the studio for the garbage work conditions.

 

[Trollblade69]

And I'm fully caught up with Vivziepop's Youtube channel.

I can tell the show wanted to retool towards a story about Blitzo self-reflecting on his attitude and inadequacy issues and inability to take his relationships seriously, damn the prior continuity or character behaviors. Trouble is I'm concerned those are the kinds of things fans and the show itself likes writing about, and it'd get in the way of all the swearing and sex jokes, so I doubt those will actually be amended or even satisfyingly addressed. I'm recalling Hbomberguy's criticism of Steven Moffat's protagonists being douchebags who keep going through circular, wishy-washy "Don't always be a jerk" lessons in episodes that never actually stick.

I kinda want Blitzo's adoption of Loona to get brought up in this dilemma - where or how his treatment of her differs from how he's treated Verosika or Stolas or any of his other exes, why he adopted Loona as his legal daughter instead of just an employee or a girlfriend, whether or not they've ever fought because of his attitude, et cetera.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Also if we're talking about animation clean up i want to mention there are several videos on clean up artists doing it for helluva boss from line art to colour which are basically speedpaints with bit of an commentary
I think one if i remember did it all with mouse and even if they use line tools and shit , imagine drawing, colouring and shading all on fuckin mouse on top of being paid pennies.
Comic books had separate people just for colouring because it needed someone else to go over and do it. Now imagine for animation where you do 100 times more than comic and you are told that you will be one to do job because your boss is too busy whining at critics on xitter

I thought clean-up was originally a Disney term for inking the outlines with colored inks to produce a fuzzy color transition between the solid color of the cel and the background. I guess all I know is that words mean nothing.

Here's a good example of what each step entails. I can understand how people can think inking and coloring is part of the clean-up process, but they are two different jobs. Also take note that the coloring doesn't have any shading or highlights. That would be the effects team job. So the clean-up animators are essentially doing two other jobs they didn't sign up for now.

I'm also curious to know how many times they have to redo their shot since it's a remote job as well. The whole group would be working on their shots in one room while the lead/supervisor walks around and makes sure that everything looks consistent to one another. I can only imagine putting in all that time and effort in getting your work done just before the deadline, only to have to redo the whole thing again because the higher-ups didn't communicate what they wanted effectively.

 

[Gondolindrim]

You know, I do put the blame Adam Geylan and Brandon Rogers too as they are both responsible for Helluva's humor and writing being so garbage. But like, I've seen their work on Brandon's own channel and the 3-episode BRYCE miniseries, and while it doesn't make me laugh, it's at least structured and paced well. And they write actual jokes that while I personally don't find funny, I can understand why other people can. Like the balanced dramedy tone of BRYCE is basically what HB wants to be but fails because of Viv's incompetent story planning and vision for the show switching on a dime.

So yeah, I think Brandon and Adam, while still responsible for Helluva's dogshit writing, had to work with whatever the hell Viv "planned" for the show, assuming she mapped it out at all and not just making shit up as it goes along. Sort of a repeat of my Haft and Underberg point but for Helluva, though again, these two affect the show even more given how they co-write and collab with Viv.

Plus, Adam is basically just Viv's bitch and acts as her dicksucking damage control whenever she can't respond on Twitter.

Yeah Viv is definitely the source of the insanity, but her enablers aren't helping.

 

[Hammersmith]

Here we go.

Damn, he's at least pointing out Stolas' hypocrisy and bad behaviors to some extent. That's something. I thought the video would've been way worse.


And a fed up fan appears in the comment section to spit facts.

EDIT:

More and more people are just straight up shitting on Stolas. You love to see it.

 

[Meghan Sparkle the Second]

Unhappy Campers will soon be one year old, marking the anniversary of IMP employees having actual relevance in the show.

I know Hazbin released in the middle of it, but Jesus, whose idea was it to have four episodes in a row being about side characters ? Is it because they switched with the suicidal Millie episode ? Even without that...

Spoiler: autistic counting

Episode 1 : Stolitz backstory about being childhood friend.
Episode 2 : Stolitz in Las Vegas completely derailing the Octavia's disappearance plot.
Episode 3 : actual episode about Moxxie.
Episode 4 : Stolas gets abducted and even more drama as he is in the hospital.
Episode 5 : actual episode about M&M.
Episode 6 : Fizzarolli episode, with a side of Stolitz.
Episode 7 : Fizzarolli episode.
Episode 8 : Stolitz episode.
Episode 9 : Stolitz episode.

Episodes focused on Stolas : 5.
Episodes focused on Fizzarolli : 2.
Episodes focused on Moxxie : 1,5.
Episodes focused on Millie : 0,5.
Episodes focused on Loona : lmao.

They are forced to do shorts on the side to give character to their actual main character. Wouldn't want Millie to derail the show too much from the imp on owl gay romance, would we ?

I had some hope for Apology Tour, as Verosika was my favorite character in the show. Finally an episode that would take a break from fujoshi drama and shine some light on Blitzo's wrongdoings in his past relationships, as his drama with Fizza ended up being a damp squib. How did an imp get a succubus sex symbol to fall in love with him, and why did he run away with her car ? Was he trying to steal her Asmodeus crystal like he did with the grimoire, or was there something else there ?

But noooo, of course it had to be about fucking Stolitz again. Not even a flashback with Verosika, nada. Like any female character in this show, she is just there to further the plot about the real stars of the show, the gayz. And here we go again with "will they won't they" plot, in case we are on the edge of our seats about who Stolas will chose between the nameless background character he drunkingly hooked up with, and the guy whose relationship with we wasted half the season screetime on.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I had some hope for Apology Tour, as Verosika was my favorite character in the show. Finally an episode that would take a break from fujoshi drama and shine some light on Blitzo's wrongdoings in his past relationships, as his drama with Fizza ended up being a damp squib. How did an imp get a succubus sex symbol to fall in love with him, and why did he run away with her car ? Was he trying to steal her Asmodeus crystal like he did with the grimoire, or was there something else there ?

But noooo, of course it had to be about fucking Stolitz again. Not even a flashback with Verosika, nada. Like any female character in this show, she is just there to further the plot about the real stars of the show, the gayz. And here we go again with "will they won't they" plot, in case we are on the edge of our seats about who Stolas will chose between the nameless background character he drunkingly hooked up with, and the guy whose relationship with we wasted half the season screetime on.

The thing with Verosika in Apology Tour is that there is glimmer of a good story in there since her talk with Blitzo was actually decent and having her talk with Stolas is also good in isolation.

The party thing honestly pisses me off because with both Spring Broken and the cutaway gag in Apology Tour, there could've at least been some comedic value in Verosika and Stolas going to some human party given how both of them are perceived by humans. But the entire setting of the "Anti-Blitzo party" is really pathetic for everyone else involved. Like I can see Verosika being petty enough to do something like that since she is still very bitter about him, but all those other background characters crying their eyes out over him is just too pathetic, like I feel just Stolas and Verosika are enough to make Blitzo feel bad about his romantic life, it just couldn't have been a normal party that Verosika took Stolas too? But instead we are to believe Blitzo is this sex god who got with 100s of pathetic losers who still cry about him to this day.

Realistically it would be a bunch of one night stands Blitzo is engaged in, which makes those crybabies more pathetic unless he is way older than he appears, which is not likely given the first episode of the second season established he's in his 30s.

Really the episode had potential to have its cake and eat it two in maybe doing what Viv wanted in developing these people and also be a comedy.

 

[perry 23 tack]

I love how Blitzo and Verosika's relationship was completely offscreen and only discussed in a few scenes yet ironically comes off as more interesting and actually believably toxic than Stolitz. Like Viv's fujo brain wanted to hype Stolitz up as the greatest toxic yaoi, but ended up unintentionally writing a far better (relatively speaking) toxic hetero couple. Hmmmmm.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I love how Blitzo and Verosika's relationship was completely offscreen and only discussed in a few scenes yet ironically comes off as more interesting and actually believably toxic than Stolitz. Like Viv's fujo brain wanted to hype Stolitz up as the greatest toxic yaoi, but ended up unintentionally writing a far better (relatively speaking) toxic hetero couple. Hmmmmm.

It probably has to do with Stolas being a uwu wattpad sadboy than an actual flawed character compared to Blitzo and Verosika who are both flawed people but not entirely terrible.

Stolas meanwhile is babied by the show and Viv

 

[Grand Duke Snowfall]

Here we go.

Damn, he's at least pointing out Stolas' hypocrisy and bad behaviors to some extent. That's something. I thought the video would've been way worse.

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And a fed up fan appears in the comment section to spit facts.

EDIT:
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More and more people are just straight up shitting on Stolas. You love to see it.

I keep thinking about one of the comments about Stolas starting to be drawn rounder, less narrow, more wide eyed, etc. than he was in the pilot and first season. I went back to compare…

Spoiler

Mobile would not let me thumbnail the first image, sue me
Edit: went back and fixed it

Now I know that style and the way a character looks in animation can change over time, as the artists get more comfortable…or in some cases, lazy. But I think this really helps convey that Stolas is no longer a potential antagonist, but Viv’s poor widdle baby who needs validation from his boy toy despite being a grown ass man with a (divorced) wife, daughter, and important job. Never forget that this is demon man acting like a hormonal teen.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I keep thinking about one of the comments about Stolas starting to be drawn rounder, less narrow, more wide eyed, etc. than he was in the pilot and first season. I went back to compare…

Spoiler

View attachment 6159616
View attachment 6159347
View attachment 6159348
Mobile would not let me thumbnail the first image, sue me
Edit: went back and fixed it

Now I know that style and the way a character looks in animation can change over time, as the artists get more comfortable…or in some cases, lazy. But I think this really helps convey that Stolas is no longer a potential antagonist, but Viv’s poor widdle baby who needs validation from his boy toy despite being a grown ass man with a (divorced) wife, daughter, and important job. Never forget that this is demon man acting like a hormonal teen.

Honestly, all the characters are suffering from "baby-face". Probably due to the fact that there are so many animators coming in and out of production. Here's some examples of what characters looked like in season 1 compared to season 2:

Spoiler

Blitzø S1:

Blitzø S2:

Moxxie S1:

Moxxie S2:

(My god, he has gotten short)

Millie S1:

Millie S2:

Loona S1:

Loona S2:

Stolas S1:

Stolas S2:

Octavia S1:

Octavia S2:

Stella S1:

Stella S2:

Fizzarolli S1:

Fizzarolli S2:

Verosika S1:

Verosika S2:

Striker S1:

Striker S2:

Asmodeus S1:

Asmodeus S2:

The main thing that I noticed compared to the two seasons is that the line art has gotten thicker and the characters have shrunk, while their faces remain relatively the same size or have gotten bigger. I don't know what other word to use other than that they got chibified.

And this is not even comparing the characters appearance in each episode because yes, they do differ there. Even in the same episode, the character may look different in each scene. I doubt there are specific animators for each character, otherwise they wouldn't be looking this inconsistent. I wouldn't be surprised if they're just assigned whatever shot that is available at the time and needs to get done.

 

[Viper the rappah]

The amount of animators HB has is closer to the amount of fucking animators that Demon Slayer has.

Viv playing pokemon with animators. She just wanna catch as many to put in their sweatsho- i mean well paying studio.

"Jjk? Why would you ever want to go in that evil labor sweat inducing 0 pay show. I can pay you 10 times better with my gay demon yaoi show"

Btw stolas looked best with sharp narrow eyes. If he was kept the same i would have liked him more, but no we have to ship, we have to ignore good set up for episodic comedy for millionth shipping war. Has that woman ever seen what other shows ended up as that focused on overbearing romance? I thought as tumblr user she'd have known better about stuff like this.

 

[perry 23 tack]

Viv just did an interview on the Lightweights Podcast

Since there's nothing important going on visually anyway, I'll just drop an MP3 version of the interview to archive it.
MP3

Spoiler: TIMESTAMPS

Note: Copied these timestamps from a comment on the video (Thank you to whoever did that)
[1:40] What’s it like being in your brain in this world/creativity

[3:32] When you get inspired, do you immediately know where you’ll put that idea or do you make a note for future.

[7:34] How far in advance is the writing room done/ how audience influence the writing

[12:14] Animation process

[16:30] What point do you think an episode is done & ready to start getting animated

[18:09] Favorite production process/ Recording process

[23:52] Storyboard artist

[25:52] Frame rate used

[27:10] What does a director do on a animated show (opposed to a film director)

[29:35] What’s the most expensive part for an animated show

[31:18] Catching mistakes in episodes

[36:23] Is there any relief in Hazbin due to the lack of a comment section compared to Helluva where people can point things out?

[37:47] How big is the team for Habin and Helluva

[38:56] Where were you 5 years ago, did you think it would get to this point?

[41:49] do you have an idea for how many seasons Hazbin will be?

[42:22] What was your first big milestone and what’s the most recent milestone with hazbin

[48:06] Love going to Cons

[49:40] How busy is your schedule with running 2 shows

[51:43] Do you interact with other show creators?

[53:57] Meeting Richard Horvitz for the first time

[56:23] Are there any mannerism in blitz that you brought out for Brandon?

[58:34] Blitz’s horse obsession

[1:00:45] Do you add things from what the cast say into the show?

[1:01:28] First time meeting Amir (Alastor) / Why Alastor called Adam Sloppy

[1:04:25] When the hazbin gets their lines, do they get the full episode or just their takes?

[1:04:48] Have you scouted anybody from the second season of hazbin for guest spots

[1:05:30] From a showrunner perspective, do you now only focus on S2 and wait for s3 to get picked up again before you start writing the script for it?

10 FAN QUESTIONS:

[1:06:16] “Will we get to see Stella’s background or will she just remain the villain?” Short Answer: Yes.

[1:10:13] Do you have a process for when its time to reveal something or is it just whenever it feels right / 50 eps

[1:11:54] How do you recruit people, is there anyone memorable?

[1:15:40] Working with friends

[1:18:23] Is your downtime still involved with the show and animation?

[1:20:06] Is it possible to get all 7 sins talk in the same room?

[1:20:54] Is there a story behind the black chocker for all the /most female characters

[1:22:30] What do you think happens to a character when their story is told

[1:23:57] “not afraid to kill off characters…. Nervous laugh”

[1:25:18] Would you find values in killing off a main character in the final episode?

[1:26:30] Stolas not dying (maybe?)

[1:27:34] Is there a timeline for S2 of Hazbin?

[1:28:15] Brandon changed the angle of the show

[1:30:55] Have you ever thought of doing a movie

Info from the interview that interest me. So, we are gonna get an episode regarding Stella's backstory in the future. The writing team is at least one year in advance and the audience feedback doesn't affect the writing so criticisms will only be taken into account (if at all) once the season is over. And most tellingly, one episode for Helluva takes at least 3 months to complete (storyboarding, animating, writing), multiply that by TWELVE because of the 12 episodes in Season 2.

Holy shit, no wonder they went through about 444.

---

 

[Activelo]

Her response to the IMBD video that was posted a couple pages back:

From what I’m seeing they are listing every single credited person in EVERY art department across all 17 eps and pilot. It also includes the TC and Chaos credits which are entirely different studios that helped on the show. We don’t even have 400 people. Simply misinformation.

 

[perry 23 tack]

Well, I'll take her word with tons of salt, but even if that isn't true. Having to storyboard, animate, and cleanup each episode for months and then repeat that process for several more episodes is actual hell. No wonder the ex-employees are excited to spill the beans this month (or after July depending on when the NDAs will exactly expire).

 

[Hammersmith]

But noooo, of course it had to be about fucking Stolitz again. Not even a flashback with Verosika, nada. Like any female character in this show, she is just there to further the plot about the real stars of the show, the gayz. And here we go again with "will they won't they" plot, in case we are on the edge of our seats about who Stolas will chose between the nameless background character he drunkingly hooked up with, and the guy whose relationship with we wasted half the season screetime on.

It probably has to do with Stolas being a uwu wattpad sadboy than an actual flawed character compared to Blitzo and Verosika who are both flawed people but not entirely terrible.

Stolas meanwhile is babied by the show and Viv

I’m just so sick of it. I’m so sick and tired of Stolas being babied throughout the show and obviously being Viv’s favorite. It’s so clear that Stolas is Vivziepop’s favorite character because of the amount of screentime he’s getting and the favorable retcons. Fuck Loona and Millie, who are part of the main cast of characters, gotta focus on the guy who blackmails Blitz for sex.

I hate the gay melodrama season 2 has become. I just want the somewhat competent season 1 episodic comedy series, not this abomination.

But the entire setting of the "Anti-Blitzo party" is really pathetic for everyone else involved. Like I can see Verosika being petty enough to do something like that since she is still very bitter about him, but all those other background characters crying their eyes out over him is just too pathetic.

You’re wholeheartedly correct that all these people who came to this pathetic party are just one-night stands. Proof? Dennis from S1EP8 is one of the attendees. A guy who only made out with Blitz at Bee’s party, nothing more. What a sad bunch of cringy losers.

Her response to the IMBD video that was posted a couple pages back:

Oh, how curious. Then it begs the question: why is SpindleHorse seemingly hiring new animators all the time? Looking back at the head of production's twitter account for SpindleHorse, they're announcing open positions for animators each month, sometimes even twice a month. Yeah, I call bullshit. It's just a statement to save face from this embarrassing fiasco.

 

[Meghan Sparkle the Second]

Like I can see Verosika being petty enough to do something like that since she is still very bitter about him, but all those other background characters crying their eyes out over him is just too pathetic, like I feel just Stolas and Verosika are enough to make Blitzo feel bad about his romantic life, it just couldn't have been a normal party that Verosika took Stolas too? But instead we are to believe Blitzo is this sex god who got with 100s of pathetic losers who still cry about him to this day.

Yeah, Blitzo managing to bag a superstar like Verosika despite being a gremlin was supposed to be the joke, according to the IMP reaction to learning about their past relationship in Spring Broken. He was never characterized as hot, just an annoying sex pest.

But then we learn he slept with dozens of succubus, hellhounds and other demons, and somehow they are still all hung up on him enough to go to a yearly party about him ? I can understand Verosika feeling hurt over him as they were in a relationship, but how exactly did he screw over his one night stands ? Someone in the writer room got ghosted on Grindr and it was the epitome of their love life.

Now that I think about it, one of the major changes about Blitzo is probably how he went from being a Michael Scott in demon form in Season 1, to Viv trying hard to push him as a Tumblr sexyman in Season 2. That's the guy who sexually harrassed his employees and has a fetish for horses.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

You’re wholeheartedly correct that all these people who came to this pathetic party are just one-night stands. Proof? Dennis from S1EP8 is one of the attendees. A guy who only made out with Blitz at Bee’s party, nothing more. What a sad bunch of cringy losers.

Yeah, Blitzo managing to bag a superstar like Verosika despite being a gremlin was supposed to be the joke, according to the IMP reaction to learning about their past relationship in Spring Broken. He was never characterized as hot, just an annoying sex pest.

But then we learn he slept with dozens of succubus, hellhounds and other demons, and somehow they are still all hung up on him enough to go to a yearly party about him ? I can understand Verosika feeling hurt over him as they were in a relationship, but how exactly did he screw over his one night stands ? Someone in the writer room got ghosted on Grindr and it was the epitome of their love life.

Now that I think about it, one of the major changes about Blitzo is probably how he went from being a Michael Scott in demon form in Season 1, to Viv trying hard to push him as a Tumblr sexyman in Season 2. That's the guy who sexually harrassed his employees and has a fetish for horses.

As I said, the same story could’ve happened without these random ass exes if Verosika and Stolas went to some random Halloween party, like have the same plot beats of Stolas being happier there and having his stupid little song.

But it would’ve cut out the dumb melodrama of the one night stands of emotionally weak losers from Hell. If it was just random demons Verosika invited fine, but we get shots of them crying and seething about how Blitzo hurt them.

There would’ve been comedy with Stolas, this royal prince from Hell, being in a normal human party than a circlejerk which is not even therapeutic with people who are somehow more pathetic than him.