Power Generation General

[FamicomGorby]

What if I built a solar array say 100-200 feet from my house, kept the batteries under that, and ran the power in an underground or overhead line to my house? How much space would be talking to live like a typical burger off sol?

Depends on where you are, amount of hours of sunlight you get and if there are any obstructions. It's been a while since I've done solar calculation, when I was in school we'd use this software called HOMER that let you pick a location, you'd model the roof of a home and any obstructions around the installation, then it'd tell ya how much an installation could be expected to produce over the lifetime of the panels. Generally though you're gonna need to cover the entire roof of the average American home to get enough power for their entire twenty year design life.

Batteries you have to swap out even more frequently, about every five years. They're the main reason a solar installation really takes about twenty years to pay for itself.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

Depends on where you are, amount of hours of sunlight you get and if there are any obstructions. It's been a while since I've done solar calculation, when I was in school we'd use this software called HOMER that let you pick a location, you'd model the roof of a home and any obstructions around the installation, then it'd tell ya how much an installation could be expected to produce over the lifetime of the panels. Generally though you're gonna need to cover the roof of the average American home to get enough power for their entire twenty year design life.

Batteries you have to swap out even more frequently, about every five years. They're the main reason a solar installation really takes about twenty years to pay for itself.

I figured it would be easier to just build something near the house so I don't have to climb on the roof to clean the panels of dust. Like what, 1500 square feet? If I have panels 5 feet wide and 30 feet long, that would be ten of those?

I mean, if I mount them on posts so they're angled for local noon ideal angle, sort of like how solar farms work, I could maybe see it. I have space, but that sounds expensive, even if I double up the use as shades for livestock. Maybe Uncle Sam would give me a grant for "green energy?"

 

[Doctor Love]

A gasifier is probably the best. I made a thread about the use of Carbon Monoxide, but it's an alternative gas fuel for ICEs, too. It's mixed with hydrogen - lower power than most, but if you have an old generator there are guides for how to hook it up with CO. Just make sure to do it with good ventilation.

CO is surprisingly efficient, and a good gasifier can run practically indefinitely, if you have enough wood or coal.

That is to say - the CO-CO2 pathway is around 75% as energetic as C-CO2. H2 to H2O remains unchanged - the actual energy density is really not far behind - maybe 50% for the luxury of making it out of a regular fire.

It's easy to understand in principle - a semi-smothered flame, collect the outgas, and then burn that. There's more technical parts to it, but I'd love to test it out with a normal gasoline generator - you might be able to get a lot out of it. It's ye olde "town gas" - the shit which powered ovens before natural gas. Be careful, it is carbon fucking monoxide so it's not exactly safe, but if done outside you can get off-the-grid energy, including renewables, by growing fuel. It's way easier to go for partial combustion and to pipe away the still-good CO for use in a generator.

 

[DavidS877]

I figured it would be easier to just build something near the house so I don't have to climb on the roof to clean the panels of dust.

If you have the land I think a ground mount is better. More cable length but easier to maintain, easier to get away from a possibly shaded roof. No problems when it's roof repair/replacement time.

 

[Doctor Love]

I figured it would be easier to just build something near the house so I don't have to climb on the roof to clean the panels of dust. Like what, 1500 square feet? If I have panels 5 feet wide and 30 feet long, that would be ten of those?

Farming bamboo, algae or something, or using the land for agriculture is probably better.

Solar can be used in conjunction - but like I said, you can get a gasifier to run with almost anything.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

Farming bamboo, algae or something, or using the land for agriculture is probably better.

Solar can be used in conjunction - but like I said, you can get a gasifier to run with almost anything.

1500 square feet is nothing so far as space is concerned for me, and I don't think we get anything like enough rain to raise bamboo.

Not that I'm sure solar would be worth it, but in my particular case, the space is not a relevant issue.

Edit: by the by, bamboo? For what?

 

[Doctor Love]

Not that I'm sure solar would be worth it, but in my particular case, the space is not a relevant issue

Solar is good energy per square meter, but also rather high in cost. If you're stuck on resources - building a coal shed might go just as far, ditto for firewood.

Gasification is underrated, and so long as you have a way to use that for energy, you can go quite far. High quality anthracite is rather pure, but other coal sources will have useful shit.

I'd put my money on gasifier and ICE - since you can run engines on CO, you can use it for a lot.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

Solar is good energy per square meter, but also rather high in cost. If you're stuck on resources - building a coal shed might go just as far, ditto for firewood.

Gasification is underrated, and so long as you have a way to use that for energy, you can go quite far. High quality anthracite is rather pure, but other coal sources will have useful shit.

I'd put my money on gasifier and ICE - since you can run engines on CO, you can use it for a lot.

Can you make and capture gasifier CO with charcoal? I have abundant mesquite.

 

[Doctor Love]

Can you make and capture gasifier CO with charcoal?

Yes, so - it's an equilibrium reaction. If you burn oxygen at 800C or above with the charcoal, it will favour CO to close to 100% - as the temperature rises, the reaction favours the one which produces the least heat. The reaction between C and O2 which produces the least heat is CO - it's mainly maths, but your objective is to make the loss of heat equal to the generation of heat, at roughly 1000-1100K.

I don't have any idea what the vessel would look like, but yeah, there's no reason you can't use charcoal - it's about maintaining the reactor within a certain temperature range, and basically simmering it to produce flammable carbon monoxide.

 

[Taser Confetti]

CO is surprisingly efficient, and a good gasifier can run practically indefinitely, if you have enough wood or coal.

Exactly where am I going to get cords of firewood during an emergency? Most people don't have acres of woodland on their property, I'm gonna be using gasoline to run the chainsaw required anyways.

Meanwhile, I can order a propane tank with hundreds of pounds of capacity.

 

[Doctor Love]

Meanwhile, I can order a propane tank with hundreds of pounds of capacity.

Gasification works with anything combustible. A good gasifier, as in, the underlying principle, not the machine. Coal, charcoal, wood, dried grass, waste paper - prior to LNG, Coalgas was the main gas fuel for most of the world.

It's the exact same reaction used to refine iron ore, too - C to CO at an elevated temperature, and R-H to H2 by the same mechanism. It produces a combustible gas. If you can get tonnes of propane, then yeah, use the fuckin' propane - LNG made it redundant, but the old method still works for most of the same machinery.

 

[DavidS877]

1500 square feet is nothing so far as space is concerned for me, and I don't think we get anything like enough rain to raise bamboo.

Not that I'm sure solar would be worth it, but in my particular case, the space is not a relevant issue.

Edit: by the by, bamboo? For what?

Here's a map/tool to try and guess how well solar would work for you:

https://globalsolaratlas.info/

I am not sure if it takes into account cloud cover, it is a little vague on that.

 

[Doctor Love]

Edit: by the by, bamboo? For what?

Oh, just high growth rate, decent for like scaffolding and shit, high mass yield per square meter without many drawbacks.

It grows incredibly fast, it's strong and lightweight, it's very versatile and can be used as a carbon source for the gasification process.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

Exactly where am I going to get cords of firewood during an emergency? Most people don't have acres of woodland on their property, I'm gonna be using gasoline to run the chainsaw required anyways.

Meanwhile, I can order a propane tank with hundreds of pounds of capacity.

Propane is fine for emergency power, but if you want to be Mister Off Grid Self Sufficient, you'll be wanting something more long term, and which won't all seep out without detection because someone left a valve open.

Idk about this gasifier idea, but it's interesting. Hear me out on a tinfoil idea-- sign up for chipdrop or some other arborist waste delivery service, then turn yards and yards of free woodchips into yards of free charcoal, which if nothing else will burn hot, even, and clean in a wood stove. If you scam that into electricity generation, winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[Taser Confetti]

Propane is fine for emergency power, but if you want to be Mister Off Grid Self Sufficient, you'll be wanting something more long term, and which won't all seep out without detection because someone left a valve open.

Idk about this gasifier idea, but it's interesting. Hear me out on a tinfoil idea-- sign up for chipdrop or some other arborist waste delivery service, then turn yards and yards of free woodchips into yards of free charcoal, which if nothing else will burn hot, even, and clean in a wood stove. If you scam that into electricity generation, winner winner chicken dinner.

So pay for someone to deliver me a consumable resource? How is this different than paying for propane? Especially if muh homestead mostly relied on solar, wind etc and only used the propane to fuel a backup generator in emergencies.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

So pay for someone to deliver me a consumable resource? How is this different than paying for propane? Especially if muh homestead mostly relied on solar, wind etc and only used the propane to fuel a backup generator in emergencies.

There is no pay. You tell an arborist they can dump at your place, and there ya go, free woodchips. Lots of people use it for gardening.

I was just suggesting a way to get your hands on consumable carbon without having to even harvest it yourself. In a "the bombs are falling" fantasy, you can use your own trees or your neighbors. Or your neighbor's trees.

 

[Jotch]

Farming bamboo

I am no agriculturalist, but wouldn't the constant growth and subsequent burning of such a fast growing plant ruin the soil pretty quick? What do you have in mind? I'm also interested what your favorite design might be?

As for realistic use where the world keeps turning, free chip drops and just buying/harvesting firewood/coal sounds like fantastic ways to get gasification going.

 

[Doctor Love]

I am no agriculturalist, but wouldn't the constant growth and subsequent burning of such a fast growing plant ruin the soil pretty quick? What do you have in mind? I'm also interested what your favorite design might be?

I mean, probably? I don't know shit about farming lol I was just thinking "What would be a biomass-heavy thing to grow" - you can gasify anything which has a carbon content. You can technically do it wet - you're just heating it up and insulating it to the point that it self-sustains and then limiting the oxygen intake to the minimum.

I do know that bamboo is mainly composed from atmospheric CO2 and water, so afaik it doesn't really damage the soil. Apparently it "damages" it literally, the roots are very strong and break brick - but that's not a problem.

Gasifiers are a sweet middle-ground which have a pretty wide history - they have been used, successfully, to run vehicles and made up a majority of war-time vehicles in Nazi Occupied Europe (due to the wartime petrol shortages) - advanced shit can make liquid petrol at a rate of 1:5 by mass; as in, 5kg of wood making 1kg of liquid petrol.

(yes, this is on my list of things to test)

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

I think @Sobake is saying that a plant is going to remove nutrients when it itself is removed. It's why hay pastures absolutely have to be fertilized, organic or chemical, lest they exhaust the soil of phosphorus and potassium especially.

I have no idea about how much you'd need to fertilize a permanent bamboo stand.

 

[Doctor Love]

I think @Sobake is saying that a plant is going to remove nutrients when it itself is removed. It's why hay pastures absolutely have to be fertilized, organic or chemical, lest they exhaust the soil of phosphorus and potassium especially.

That seems like you could just dump ash back onto the soil when needed. The carbon and hydrogen would be removed as gas, but that leaves the others as residue.