US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

 

[Ibanez RG 350EX]

It's still a long, long, long road to the damnatio memorae that FDR and his regime deserve, but just opening up the agencies to lawfare allows activism to defend people and chip away at their power a bit at a time.

I absolutely agree. But "a bit at a time" is the key takeaway - it took a century of progressive judges to get here and the absolute best case would be that it takes a century to get back. The people who are acting like the writing is on the wall for the federal agencies and that the ATF is soon going to be toothless are just not living in reality.

 

[kobebyarlant]

Trump has generally outperformed the polls. In 2016 the RCP average heading into the election was +3.2 for Clinton and Trump ended up winning. In 2020 the RCP average hading into the election was +7.2 for Biden.

One important thing to understand about polls is that they have a margin of error which usually isn't reported or included in the aggregate data. Most of the polls have a margin of error of at least 3% and I would say that it's probably closer to 5% just given the nature of what they're trying to measure.



The greatest lie the left ever managed to tell was that the Nazis were in any way politically right. The party's actual name was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei  which is German for National Socialist German Worker's Party. Their politics were squarely against capitalism and big business and in many ways they were ahead of their time because they added racial identity to the usual socialist claptrap whereas other socialist countries at the time were still only using it to divide classes based on wealth or economic factors.

Once Hitler gained control of Germany he mainly focused on exterminating Jews, gypsies, and anyone else he didn't like and building up for war. The reason Hitler hated the communists in Russia as well is that he believed Marxism was some crypto-Jewish plot to make nations subservient to Jews. Their actual economic policy based on what they did is rather mixed with some businesses being nationalized (mainly for war production purposes) and some government functions being privatized.

A bit OT: The first time I ever heard the term “social justice” in my life was in 2000 watching a documentary about Hitler getting into power. I remember thinking about how creepy and authoritarian it sounded even at 10 years old. And the context was a German woman remembering him getting elected and her being excited that he promised to bring the banks and businesses to heel through regulation and increase welfare benefits. She said she was happy Hitler would bring social justice.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

CNN unironically becoming less and less crazy.

What a timeline.

MSNBC took some of their crazy from the looks of it.

MSNBC is flat-out unhinged right now.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

CNN unironically becoming less and less crazy.

What a timeline.

I’m legit curious if someone at CNN realized the only reason their ratings aren’t completely in the shitter is because they’re played at every airport in the world. Cause while The Message is important, it doesn’t mean shit if there’s no where to Message from - they might just be trying to put out the ratings dumpster fire while the Dems are currently imploding, just writing off this election cycle entirely, and are Tard Wrangling as needed.

That or the crazies/True Believers have all jumped over to MSNBC - they seem completely unhinged nowadays.

 

[spiritofamermaid]

I absolutely agree. But "a bit at a time" is the key takeaway - it took a century of progressive judges to get here and the absolute best case would be that it takes a century to get back. The people who are acting like the writing is on the wall for the federal agencies and that the ATF is soon going to be toothless are just not living in reality.

Let a fish dream please

Watching serious questions about "woke DEI policies" on CNN is fucking wild.

Just finished listening to it while I'm waiting for it to download so I can upload it. It's honestly bizarre to hear them point out that the real criticism was to Cheatle saying that their priority is diversity. He didn't say it outright, but it's implied (maybe I'm getting a wrong implication due to my knowledge) that Mayorkas is pretending there is criticism over sexism and not over DEI.

The fact that I'm saying this about CNN is bizarre and wild. I feel like I'm falling for a trick.

 

[Overly Serious]

This sounds like that ad that aired in Russia telling people to vote with a vision of an authoritarian LGBTQ new order if they didn't. I just spent about ten minutes looking for it but can't find it - only some stupid reaction video to it. And no, it's not the one where the dude opens the door to a general dabbing (though that's funny too). Was way longer.

Quoting myself to say to @Klugii that I found that Russian ad. The future in that book sounds very much like it:

Not lately

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The Nazis were socially conservative, but economically Left Wing. The Economic Left + Social Conservative quadrant of the matrix is so potent that the West has largely spent the last eight decades trying to wipe it out of existence as a concept. To the point that in the US today, nearly all Conservatives are also economically right wing. It didn't used to be so nor does it need to be so. The book 'An Intelligent Person's Guide to Fascism' is quite short and traces the early roots of modern fascism from the late 19th century days of groups like Action Francaise onwards.

https://archive.org/details/intelligentperso0000grif

It's by Richard Griffiths but please note this is the retired historian, not Harry Potter's uncle.

Spoiler: Did not write a book on the origins of fascism

The greatest lie the left ever managed to tell was that the Nazis were in any way politically right. The party's actual name was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei  which is German for National Socialist German Worker's Party. Their politics were squarely against capitalism and big business and in many ways they were ahead of their time because they added racial identity to the usual socialist claptrap whereas other socialist countries at the time were still only using it to divide classes based on wealth or economic factors.

Yes! The usual and superficial response you get if you say the Nazis were predominantly Left Wing is a patronising "just because they called themselves socialist, doesn't mean they were". To which I usually point out, no, but the introduction of socialised healthcare, government job creation programs, welfare benefits incl. child benefits, nationalisation of industry and extensive state control over education and business kind of do. Oh, and also they called themselves socialist and put out socialist literature and manifestos.

Once Hitler gained control of Germany he mainly focused on exterminating Jews, gypsies, and anyone else he didn't like and building up for war. The reason Hitler hated the communists in Russia as well is that he believed Marxism was some crypto-Jewish plot to make nations subservient to Jews. Their actual economic policy based on what they did is rather mixed with some businesses being nationalized (mainly for war production purposes) and some government functions being privatized.

If you don't mind me using your post as a jumping off point, the Nazis practiced corporatism which again, the superficial think means rule by corporations which it is almost the opposite of. The two words simply share the Italian Latin root corpus meaning body. Corporatism is where the functions of society are broken down into (usually a few) discrete sectors centrally managed by the state and coordinated with each other through the state. The concept is that each sector is like a body part and they are each represented separately in the government. Think of it like unions or guilds writ on a giant scale.

It's a little vague but it is undeniably heavily focused on big state control of industry. Which is Left Wing.

I should have expected this rabbit hole to open. My nigga in Christ, I'm not confused. The Nazis were on the political right (and *in* the right, mostly, minus a bit of anti-Semitism), especially after the Night of Long Knives when they killed Röhm and most of the Nazi "left". To say nothing of their very particular definition of "socialism" (uniquely German, non-Marxist). The polytheism was limited to a few nutters in the Ahnenerbe and Himmler. They were in coalition *with* the Conservative Party ffs. Were the Nazis conservative? Strictly speaking, no, not really, only like 75% or so. The image was a bit of hyperbole on my part. They were on the right though, no matter how much Fox News says otherwise.

I'm afraid that alongside the "just because they said they were socialist doesn't mean they were" response, your comment about Night of the Long Knives is the other common response to calling the Nazi's Left Wing, broken out by people who know a little more about the Nazi party history and / or feel they need a more detailed rebuttal. However, it doesn't really change things imo. When a Left Wing academic attempts to distance themselves from the Nazis they often bring this up to suggest that the Nazi party had jettisoned the Left Wing elements so the Left is in the clear again. The reason it doesn't work is because Rohm and his faction were Nazis right up until they were killed, were doing most of the things we condemn the Nazis for already and frankly, were the most thuggish and violent elements of the Nazi party. Which is a large part of why Hitler had to do something about them - their bullying tactics and beating people up in the street was by that point holding back the Nazis. Same for their threatening the delicate balance with the middle and upper classes by pushing to seize all their wealth. Seizing of the wealth being something the Nazis did continue to do but at a Hitler-led time scale as he consolidated more and more power, not in the Antifa style manner Rohm wanted.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony of likening the SA thugs to Antifa but the distinction between the Nazis and the Communists was very fine at times. Hitler himself wrote in Mein Kampf that his National Socialism was largely the same as communism but with nationalist elements putting German people first. Communism was inherently internationalist and the communists were all in favour of massive and brutal revolution. Hitler - more realistically - worked with industrialists and bankers to achieve power. Said industrialists and bankers feeling pretty stupid about it later on, I imagine.

Anyway, were the Nazis and Italian Fascists Left Wing? Not wholly, but more so than they were Right. Historically the fusion of Left and Right political ideologies was fascist. A kind of muscular socialism that allows those who identify as meritocratic to embrace Left Wing positions by virtue of it being exclusionary.

Which returns us to my point at the start about Economically Left + Socially Conservative being populist dynamite. People are typically fine with welfare programs, healthcare, education, etc. so long as it can be restricted to what they see as their group. Everybody wants healthcare and welfare for their fellow who has just hit hard times and needs to get back on their feet. Nobody wants it for the illegal incomer who came here just for that. Fascism is exclusionary socialism. Which people love. And why you almost never hear of it. Today, nearly all Conservatives, as I said, are also economically right wing. People on the Right tend to be meritocratic. And nearly all Left Wingers / Socialists are non-exclusionary. Extend every benefit to everybody, whether they were born here and worked or just blew across the border yesterday. This is by design. Fascism has the enticement to the Right of promising meritocracy and punishment of freeloaders. Whilst advertising unity against wealthy elites to the Left. It's catnip.

 

[Rimanah]

Why are liberals like this? If they put half as much effort into holding the Democratic party to account as they do telling people not to believe their lying eyes they would win a lot more elections. The Republican party seems to be more responsive to what its voters want than the Democratic party and a major reason is that when Republicans fuck up the base blames the Republican party, when the Democratic party fucks up the base blames everyone else for not ignoring the fuckup that we all just saw. It's insane to think that Biden is losing because of the media, if the media is to blame for anything it is ignoring Biden's weaknesses for so long that by the point they became undeniable it was too late to replace him. The Democrats near certain defeat in November is going to their own fault, and they will learn nothing from it.

Because liberalism isn’t an ideology big on responsibility, self-control, or self-accountability.
That, and it’s largely predicated on a world view that lays fault for social ills with societal and historical forces, rather than individual actors.
And then you add in the fact that it’s also built on a progressive, utopian model of history, where the left is on the right side of history, and thus cannot be wrong.

Also lmao @ Pete buttsex being intelligent. That man was awful for South Bend, a town entirely kept alive by Notre Dame.

 

[Lil Yappy]

Nah man, you are right that it's all blown way out of proportion now when the left wing media pretends we were burning witches in the nineties, but Christians were definitely crusading against all of that shit. Maybe the Christians you guys knew didn't care, but when my catholic nun teacher found my ad&d source book in my desk, she called my fundamentalist mum to warn her I had been swayed by the devil, my mum destroyed my source book and told my dad who beat the shit out of me, and I got sent to Christian camp to reconnect with God where I was called a lost cause by one counsellor because I couldn't wrap my head around how playing make believe with dice was supposed to be evil.

The other thing you guys are forgetting is that there wasn't this bright divide in the past between Christian/right and Atheist/left. Christians were just as likely - if not more so in my experience - to be left wing, and all of those democrat fucks mentioned - Lieberman, Gore, Clinton - all of them used Christianity to justify their positions, because they all claimed to be Christian.

It's crazy that people here don't understand how bad some of the Satanic panic bullshit really was. In my town it was a new panic every month over some completely dumb trivial thing whether it was lottery tickets, Harry Potter, Halloween decorations, drinking beer, rock music, videogames, and so on. It turned a whole lot of people off Christianity, even here in the deep red Bible belt. If all church is just hearing some pastor screaming about fictional games being evil then it doesn't have that much to offer.

 

[Catboy Ranch]

MSNBC took some of their crazy from the looks of it.

MSNBC is flat-out unhinged right now.

It's also unwatchable. The Reid/Psaki conspiracy theory riffing was pretty bad.

 

[Butt_Pouncer]

Lol they will never allow a live audience with Trump again.

Hillary is also bad cause she allows Trump to go fulbore and just rip into her. Trump has leaned to just let Biden talk and keep his mouth shut. Hilldog thinks she can keep up but Trump loves to throw down in the arena.

ABC news is to hold the next presidential debate on September 10th. Bidens stubbornly not stepping down. so I assume nothings changing as of now, but theres a lot of time between today and Sept 10th. Couldnt find anything about a live audience tho...

https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_debates,_2024

Edit: Its JOEVER, Biden has dropped out and democrat presidential candidacy is open. Welcome to the Thunderdome

 

[Rimanah]

Who will this influence? No one who can actually change his mind.
Its just going to demoralize their voting base even further.

I don’t think it’s about influencing Biden, it’s about setting the record if they can get him out.
Note how they characterize it as “stepping aside so we can democratically choose a replacement.” That’s not what would happen if Biden steps aside. The people would have no real say in who gets chosen. The delegates and superdelegates would choose someone.
That’s not democracy, it’s an oligarchy. But they can’t let their base realize this. So they need to get the messaging out there that this is actually going to be democratic, and will save democracy from Blumpf. And that’s what this accomplishes.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

It's also unwatchable. The Reid/Psaki conspiracy theory riffing was pretty bad.

Agreed. Though I did laugh at their exchange about how Biden recovering from covid is exactly on the same level as Trump surviving an assassination attempt.

When Joy Reid was initially making that insane comparison, Jen Psaki had this wide-eyed look on her face that pretty much said, "You're not serious, right? Oh wait, you are. I have to play along with it now" before she "agreed" with Reid.

I have no respect for people who take MSNBC seriously. They are cartoonishly biased.

 

[Butt_Pouncer]

I think we all have that coworker(s)

Gonna try to not power level too much. I work with student housing and properties in a blue area. Its gonna be interesting being a fly on the wall that week

 

[King Metalia]

MSNBC took some of their crazy from the looks of it.

MSNBC is flat-out unhinged right now.

You have to admit watching them lose their sanity over trying to rationalize their support for the Democrats and hatred Trump is high quality entertainment.

 

[Breadbassket]

It's very easy to get into discussions about the political leanings of the NSDAP, especially when you get to more obscure figures like the Strasser brothers. The people who throw around the Trump-Hitler accusations generally don't care for the greater nuances when it comes to the complex analysis of economic and social policy of a regime that disappeared nearly 80 years ago.

All that they're probably concerned with is that Hitler is seen as an extremely evil and bad person in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans and that it is an easy thing to paint Trump as in order to effect his reputation. Their justification in doing what they do usually comes down to "the demonic Fuhrer was a nationalist and Trump is one also in a loose sense" which to them means they must be equal to one another.

 

[Catboy Ranch]

Cool story bro.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

Cool story bro.
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Wut no wai

 

[Sniperwoof]

Cool story bro.
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JD Vance is a hillbilly from rural Appalachia.

There's basically no demographic who benefits less from the current American institutional status quo than people with Vance's heritage.

 

[Fred Herbert]

MSNBC in 2024 is like if they made a woke, DEI, designed-by-committee remake of InfoWars.

 

[FedPostalService]

JD Vance is a hillbilly from rural Appalachia.

There's basically no demographic who benefits less from the current Amerocan institutional status quo than people with Vance's heritage.

Is think it’s a dig at him being married to an Indian (dot, not feather) woman.

On Vance’s wife: totally would.