DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[FatMebius]

The extremely limited animation in Caped Crusader is really, really jarring and makes for a rough watch. I know it's a modern day American cartoon and that diversity is to be expected, but every other character now being some flavor of black or brown is just monumentally distracting here. Especially since it's attempting to be a period piece. I only watched the first two episodes, but the focus characters being a black woman in the first episode and a chubby latina in the second also stand out as very deliberate choices. The cast is also fat. Like, so many fatties and chunky girls.

The actual episode plots are okay enough. Standard mob drama with the Penguin in the first and a nice murder mystery in the second. Nothing groundbreaking, but decent enough. If the music was a bit nicer and the animation a little more dynamic, this could stand out a bit better. But, as it is, it's just thoroughly "meh".

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Except Tim. Fuck Tim

The best thing for Tim Drake right now is probably to be forgotten for a while until someone who actually liked his character brings him back in a couple of years. Any time he's used now it's just as the token gay character. The more he's used like that, the more it becomes engrained into his character. Hopefully someday we'll get the proper chad detective back.

 

[Overly Serious]

After a tide of red-headed characters having been race-swapped to Black people, it's like Caped Crusader is trying to negotiate - okay, Barbara Gordon is now Black, but she still has red hair. Frankly the hair on her character is distractingly weird. It doesn't look dyed. She's an African American with naturally red hair? But anyway, the real crime is making her so mannish. This show seems to have a thing for unattractive women - Harley now has a butt like two watermelons and Renee Montoya dresses like Clark Kent and she's built like Penguin used to look. Whilst actual Penguin is built like Clark Kent! And despite now being genderswapped apparently still has the name Oswald.

The show is a mixed bag. I enjoy more low-key Mafia level stories with a smattering of the weird and Bruce being very competent but not infallible. That side of things is pitched right for me and the semi-episodic nature works too. But it's very Amazon Prime. Gotham now appears to be conspicuously minority White but its the character changes that are off-putting. Barbara Gordon as the much older public defender is neither likeable nor that impressive. Harvey doesn't really work for me as the slightly corrupt, slightly assholish version they have here. He's actually a nicer person to be around as Two-Face than as Harvey Dent.

The messaging is pretty heavy-handed. Gentleman Ghost specifically goes out of his way to rob only poor people, not the rich because he hates poor people. The mayor tells Gordon that the point of making him commissioner was "for good press", i.e. they made Commissioner Gordon of all people a Diversity hire. As opposed to someone who earned that spot over the years. They'd tell you its both but it's not - no cake and eat it. And I think we're supposed to find Harley sympathetic because her victims are rich. And presumably supposed to find her potential romance with Montoya interesting rather than the reaction I had which was "Montoya needs to get the Hell away from her because she's a psycho criminal and Montoya is a good cop."

The animation isn't great, including a sauce blotch on Penguin's son's shirt which amusingly stays on one place whilst he moves around, but it's not so bad it's distracting. The pacing is good. And as I said, street level Batman is by far my preference. I like this version of Alfred and I like this imperfect and still developing version of Bruce. That's balanced by not liking Barbara Gordon and others. And I don't really like them using up main characters for throwaway things like all the Robins being together in that orphanage or Killer Croc just being a sideshow performer in the carnival. And don't reply to say that was his origin in the comics - I know. But here that's all he is.

Also, Onomatopoeia... his superpower is speaking sound effects?

 

[Michael Wade]

Saw first three episodes and really liked it. The dude they have for batman might legit be the one to come after Conroy. He's got a really nice pitch that's similar but distinctive. I like how cold and flawed this batman is without being bumbling or incompetent.


Yeah there's a lot of diversity but it's DS9 diversity were batmans fists are rated E for everyone. I hope they don't make barbera batwoman though. She seems more interesting and believable as a cop.


I dug how they made the chick penguin kinda charming without taking away from the fact she's a murderous bitch. Catwoman was delightfully old fashioned.

Also favorite extremely subtle moment was clayface impersonating a straight guy and casually implying he's gay because he wanted his girl. That was ballsy.

 

[Cnut]

Also, Onomatopoeia... his superpower is speaking sound effects?

The Widening Gyre was when I found out I hated Kevin Smith and the only Batman book I returned because I refuse to have it on my shelf after reading. (Actually that might have been Cacophony, I can't remember. Kevin Smith sucks especially his Batman comics which he never even finished.)

 

[Overly Serious]

Saw first three episodes and really liked it. The dude they have for batman might legit be the one to come after Conroy. He's got a really nice pitch that's similar but distinctive. I like how cold and flawed this batman is without being bumbling or incompetent.

Yes, he's got a real Dashiell Hammett vibe going on - hard-boiled noir so to speak. No complaints about his VA and I like the serious-to-a-fault portrayal. But then if you check my username, I would, wouldn't I?

Yeah there's a lot of diversity but it's DS9 diversity were batmans fists are rated E for everyone. I hope they don't make barbera batwoman though. She seems more interesting and believable as a cop.

Things is, I never cared about diversity until they did. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that Montoya is a lesbian and in fact I'd be annoyed if they made her straight because it's part of her character. But when they make Harley Quinn a Chinese-American lesbian I can hear the pencil scraping across the paper as they tick the box. And I wouldn't care one way or another if there as a Black public defender in the show (which is what Barbara is as a minor correction, not a cop), but it does bother me when they take satisfaction in changing an iconic character because they don't want her to be White.

I dug how they made the chick penguin kinda charming without taking away from the fact she's a murderous bitch. Catwoman was delightfully old fashioned.

Yeah, the time period is a major plus to this show. I really liked how a waiter brought a phone to their table in the restaurant. Really nice. It also solves a lot of headaches for the writers I imagine - no having to twist into a pretzel to justify Batman going undetected in an age of mass surveillance or still have the hero racing to a scene hoping he's not too late to warn someone because there are no mobile phones. Catwoman was decent.

Also favorite extremely subtle moment was clayface impersonating a straight guy and casually implying he's gay because he wanted his girl. That was ballsy.

Wow! Good catch. I caught the implication of course, but it got past me that at the time it was Clayface making it about himself. Clever. I like this more low-key Clayface with more subtle powers. Of course the old Clayface could do this but he could also turn into a giant shapeshifting golem. This is better.

The Widening Gyre was when I found out I hated Kevin Smith and the only Batman book I returned because I refuse to have it on my shelf after reading. (Actually that might have been Cacophony, I can't remember. Kevin Smith sucks especially his Batman comics which he never even finished.)

Never heard of it. Explain! EXPLAIN!

 

[StevieLasVegas]

Also, Onomatopoeia... his superpower is speaking sound effects?

It's his gimmick. He's a serial killer that goes after heroes (working his way up the hero totem pole as he gets better) and the only sounds he makes is the sounds of his or his target's actions. Great in Green Arrow, but the two Batman stories Smith wrote sucked eggs.

Never heard of it. Explain! EXPLAIN!

Not missing much. Onomatopoeia has given up going after Green Arrow and starts going after Batman in Cacophony. Widening Gyre has him pretend to be a new hero, gain Batman's trust and when Batman brings him to the Batcave to reveal who he his, Onomatopoeia kills Bruce's love-interest-of-the-week. Since Smith never got off his ass to finish writing the third part, that's where the story ends.

 

[Overly Serious]

Not missing much. Onomatopoeia has given up going after Green Arrow and starts going after Batman in Cacophony. Widening Gyre has him pretend to be a new hero, gain Batman's trust and when Batman brings him to the Batcave to reveal who he his, Onomatopoeia kills Bruce's love-interest-of-the-week. Since Smith never got off his ass to finish writing the third part, that's where the story ends.

Urgh! Turns out I did read that I just didn't recollect the name and largely suppressed the memory of it. I think that's also the story where Batman reveals he crapped his pants out of fear.

 

[Cactuar King]

Urgh! Turns out I did read that I just didn't recollect the name and largely suppressed the memory of it. I think that's also the story where Batman reveals he crapped his pants out of fear.

Smith is such a fat, hacky, burn-out piece of shit.

 

[Michael Wade]

It's his gimmick. He's a serial killer that goes after heroes (working his way up the hero totem pole as he gets better) and the only sounds he makes is the sounds of his or his target's actions. Great in Green Arrow, but the two Batman stories Smith wrote sucked eggs.


Not missing much. Onomatopoeia has given up going after Green Arrow and starts going after Batman in Cacophony. Widening Gyre has him pretend to be a new hero, gain Batman's trust and when Batman brings him to the Batcave to reveal who he his, Onomatopoeia kills Bruce's love-interest-of-the-week. Since Smith never got off his ass to finish writing the third part, that's where the story ends.

He still never finished that arc? I actually remember liking that story. Of course he wrote himself into a corner.


Finished new batman show. Lot of it was basically setting things up, but the last three episodes were great. If they can maintain that energy for season 2 it's gonna be a really excellent series.


I think the worst episode was probably the Harley one, and not because it's especially terrible or anything. I actually dug how they set her up her gimmick as a means of psycho torture. There was just a fair amount of girl talk and lesbian dating on the side that was boring as shit.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Damn I didn't realize there was a thread for DC Cartoons, I sperged out hard over it on the Western Animation thread.

Now that it's out of my immediate memory I'm not so compelled to hate it, but it just does utterly pale in comparison to Batman TAS, the animation was so much worse, which I guess I just have to accept because the days of Warner Bros contracting the top Anime Studios will never happen again. But beyond that I just hated how so much of the show was these boring characters just standing around and talking. I felt half the show was Strong Lawyer Barbara Gordon complaining about the Gotham justice system instead of telling us a story of Batman solving a mystery or what BTAS did in many episodes have the narrative be largely about the supervillian their tragic stories.

He still never finished that arc? I actually remember liking that story. Of course he wrote himself into a corner.


Finished new batman show. Lot of it was basically setting things up, but the last three episodes were great. If they can maintain that energy for season 2 it's gonna be a really excellent series.


I think the worst episode was probably the Harley one, and not because it's especially terrible or anything. I actually dug how they set her up her gimmick as a means of psycho torture. There was just a fair amount of girl talk and lesbian dating on the side that was boring as shit.

I stopped watched halfway thru so you just motivated me to give the backhalf a chance. The one episode I really enjoyed was Catwoman's that felt like Batman TAS. I do hope they end up making a season 2 hopefully with a bigger budget because I enjoyed the setting and most of the cast (except gender swapped Penguin).

As for Harley I think a huge missed opportunity is that they didn't use her as a information contact for Batman. Batman could have interviewed her to get information on rogues. Her heelturn into being a weird Dominatrix just came out of nowhere and wasn't really interesting. Maybe for Season 2 Batman can just talk to her in Gotham for information ala Hannibal Lecter.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

It does make the same mistake Beware the Batman did and focuses on the lesser known villians. Just like Beware, this could backfire terrible if they don't start introducing some if the heavy hitters from time to time. Batman is known for his top tier rogues gallery.

Beware the Batman sucked because they couldn't hold off on introducing the standard line-up. And rewriting the lesser known villains to be more like the well-known ones. The few good parts were when they went off the beaten path like making Harvey Dent into Batman's version of J. Jonah Jameson. That was actually entertaining unlike this show turning the Penguin into a lame fat version of Dita Von Teese.

 

[Michael Wade]

Im surprised people hate the animation. I rather like how it reminds me of justice League and later DCAU works.

it's definitely getting a season 2 as part of the amazon deal at the very least.

Barbara Gordon I felt was one of the stronger new dynamics as far as playing a lawyer. I thought that gave her a lot more to do and Introduced a new angle to work with. Most batman storys completely ditch the law and order angle after dent turns into two face and I dig that they are not going that route.
Speaking of, I really liked how two face was less a split personality and more of an extreme mood swing. I questioned the wisdom of making him more of an asshole through the series but it had pay off.

Harley was interesting because she didn't really think she was a bad person. She sees the worst of society and thinks torture and exploitation of most upper crust is justified but she didn't go after Wayne. She wasn't sure he deserved it and I thought that was neat.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Im surprised people hate the animation. I rather like how it reminds me of justice League and later DCAU works.

it's definitely getting a season 2 as part of the amazon deal at the very least.

Barbara Gordon I felt was one of the stronger new dynamics as far as playing a lawyer. I thought that gave her a lot more to do and Introduced a new angle to work with. Most batman storys completely ditch the law and order angle after dent turns into two face and I dig that they are not going that route.
Speaking of, I really liked how two face was less a split personality and more of an extreme mood swing. I questioned the wisdom of making him more of an asshole through the series but it had pay off.

Harley was interesting because she didn't really think she was a bad person. She sees the worst of society and thinks torture and exploitation of most upper crust is justified but she didn't go after Wayne. She wasn't sure he deserved it and I thought that was neat.

I was dreaming of BTAS with much of its animation outsourced to Korea and Japan. Here's the tweet I took this video from incase KF playback is still messed up for others. It's a great example of why BTAS is so revered because it's the animation that makes it great.

It wasn't just the writing that made BTAS so legendary, hell any honest fan of the show will tell you BTAS had its fair share of mediocre stories. The animation was on a level you didn't see on American TV, and I just have to accept we'll never see again.

If there is any TV show intro I could watch on loop it's the intro to Batman TAS.

 

[Michael Wade]

I was dreaming of BTAS with much of its animation outsourced to Korea and Japan. Here's the tweet I took this video from incase KF playback is still messed up for others. It's a great example of why BTAS is so revered because it's the animation that makes it great.
View attachment 6274412
It wasn't just the writing that made BTAS so legendary, hell any honest fan of the show will tell you BTAS had its fair share of mediocre stories. The animation was on a level you didn't see on American TV, and I just have to accept we'll never see again.

If there is any TV show intro I could watch on loop it's the intro to Batman TAS.

Oh yeah I get that, but I've made my peace with not getting 90s animation. (That scene is the same guys that did lupin the 3rd)

One neat thing I noticed was that there's actually a lot of extra D.C and batman characters in caped crusader but not a lot of attention is brought to them. Like plastic man pre superhero being the photo guy or Lois lane in ep 8 without having her name mentioned.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Oh yeah I get that, but I've made my peace with not getting 90s animation. (That scene is the same guys that did lupin the 3rd)

One neat thing I noticed was that there's actually a lot of extra D.C and batman characters in caped crusader but not a lot of attention is brought to them. Like plastic man pre superhero being the photo guy or Lois lane in ep 8 without having her name mentioned.

Beyond that I just think a cartoon needs to be a little more creative in the action scenes. We're still talking about a medium where anything can happen.

What stuck out to me was in Episode 1 where Batman saves Barbara and Troon Penguin's dumb son at the end. He then runs the mobster soldiers over with his car and disappears. Even if it can't look as good as BTAS they could be more creative.

 

[Overly Serious]

Harley was interesting because she didn't really think she was a bad person. She sees the worst of society and thinks torture and exploitation of most upper crust is justified but she didn't go after Wayne. She wasn't sure he deserved it and I thought that was neat.

I think she does go after him, actually. After the court mandated sessions she tries to persuade him to stay on as a private client. Which is what she did with all the other victims to try and dig into their psyches and learn their weaknesses before actually abducting them.

 

[Calandrino]

B:TAS did have hilariously bad animation at points. The Korean studio AKOM was the responsible party, and they eventually stopped using them. The best animation was done by TMS.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Watching Justin Whang’s newest video about if the Red Ranger did gay porn. He makes a claim that depresses me. @3:20

>Power Rangers did almost triple the ratings of Batman TAS
I spit on my fellow millennials for watching Power Rangers slop that much more than BTAS. Yes the Pink Ranger was cute but Power Rangers was fucking stupid. I thought it was fucking stupid as a kid and I was in the prime demographic for that shit.

I’ll concede that Power Rangers most likely had far more appeal with all kids while BTAS was more of a boy’s show. But it was that much more popular? Inexcusable, proof that millennials were always a pathetic generation and more millennials should have been beaten by their parents.

 

[Maurice Maine]

So, any of you ever got into Elseworlds? My favorite 'series' was Thrillkiller. Now for DC in general... well I'll say Hitman by Garth Ennis. It just has that 90s edge that couldn't be produced today you know what I mean?