Is true religious absolution a bad idea? - Transgressions on Saturday, Absolution on Sunday, rinse wash repeat.

[Troon_Patrol]

Is it a bad thing you can go to your local Abramatic house of worship, speak to a holy representative Pastor/Priest/Rabbi/Imam and be absolved for horrible unspeakable things? I was raised mostly Presbyterian, Sunday school was a long long time ago for me but, I recall hearing about how Jesus Christ told the men crucified next to him he would grant them absolution if they believed in him. The King James never makes it clear if he asked them if they raped and killed 1000 children or stole a loaf of bread to save their children and it also is not clear but, very unlikely Jesus asked them what their crimes were. I'm not a theology major but all Abramatic religions and I'm sure others have some form of faith based absolution as opposed to a restitution based absolution. IE you're Catholic, it's Sunday you step in the "double phone booth" with Padre and confess you wrote "faggot" into this car with sharpie after you thought he jumped the curb and knocked over your mailbox only, to find later it was the the retarded nigger down the street who smokes dope all day then realizes its street sweeping day and moves his shit wagon car high and nailed your mailbox at 2am, when you actually review the NVR video. You vandalized someones property who did not deserve it. Padre tells you to say 10 "Hail Mary's" he doesn't tell you to write a note on the car apologizing and offering to pay/repair the damage you caused. On the extreme we have Jeffry Dahmer, born again and baptized after rape/murder/sodomy/torture and so on. It's obviously better Dahmer started acknowledged what he did was wrong in the eyes of man and God but, I'm concerned it sends a message if Dahmer can get to heaven whats to stop me from commit horrific similar acts and asking for my own absolution? If I kill a man I just have to make to confession before I die? That's it?

I believed religion is a net positive in all of world. My concern is particularly in Catholic parts/cultures of the world if every week I can be granted literally absolution for everything horrible I have done this week, whats to stop me from doing it all next week? I've always felt La Cosa Nostra could not exist without the Catholic Church for this reason. I have heard many conspiracy theories regarding the Catholic church knowingly involved in organized crime of a financial nature such as money laundering not to mention the whole "pedo scandal" but, I suppose that is a differnt thread.

Your thoughts?

 

[Divine right to rule]

Remember that confession is a private affair, just you, the priest, and god.
The absolution is a personal one, not one before the community, the law, or anything else.

The priest would probably bring it up that your remorse is worthless if you sin in the same way next week.

Also, the concept of absolution also exists in protestantism, only there it is "just through the faith", as Luther called it.
You don't have to talk to anyone, do anything, not have any real remorse.
You can grant absolution to yourself, and call it god's absolution.
Is psychologically preferable to confession?

 

[Pomniman]

This reminds me of a Chick tract I found outside a couple of weeks back about a dead Catholic man going to Hell for being an idolater after having been given his last rites and all that other shit. I don't know if I agree with the premise or not but it was still pretty funny as they usually are.

 

[The Tall Man]

My concern is particularly in Catholic parts/cultures of the world if every week I can be granted literally absolution for everything horrible I have done this week, what's to stop me from doing it all next week?

There are very, very few Christians who actually follow the Bible.
But there are people who constantly do messed-up things, then say they are just flawed sinners, do some silly ritual, and feel better about it.

The only reason the West isn't like these Middle Eastern shitholes (Israel included) with rampant child prostitution, animal abuse, sodomy, and torture is that their biology leads them to different values.

In the oldest European civil codes and laws, pedophilia and sodomy have always been condemned and carried punishment, it's part of the European's natural morality.

Many Jews follow their holy books, and many Muslims follow theirs, because these books reflect their biologically determined morals.
With Christianity, on the other hand, many things are interpreted as allegory only because they don't align with the natural values of European people. It's basically a form of coping.


What stops you from acting like a sandnigger is your biology that informs your morality.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

speak to a holy representative Pastor/Priest/Rabbi/Imam and be absolved for horrible unspeakable things?

It doesn't exist in Judaism and pretty sure not in Islam either. From what I get the point of Absolution from a community standpoint is to own up to your sin and not do it again. If you are going to repeat it then you aren't really admitting the sin and just wasting the priest's time.

 

[The Tall Man]

It doesn't exist in Judaism and pretty sure not in Islam either. From what I get the point of Absolution from a community standpoint is to own up to your sin and not do it again. If you are going to repeat it then you aren't really admitting the sin and just wasting the priest's time.

That is a purely Western interpretation, about bettering yourself.

You swing the chicken, and now it has taken on your sins, leaving you as free of sin as a baby.

Yom Kippur is exactly that. It is not about reflecting on what you did wrong and doing better the next time. It is about transferring your sin via blood magic onto another living creature and having that creature pay for your misdeeds.

They even have nonsense about transferring the collective sins of the Jews onto the Gentiles.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

That is a purely Western interpretation, about bettering yourself.

You swing the chicken, and now it has taken on your sins, leaving you as free of sin as a baby.
View attachment 6343621
Yom Kippur is exactly that. It is not about reflecting on what you did wrong and doing better the next time. It is about transferring your sin via blood magic onto another living creature and having that creature pay for your misdeeds.

They even have nonsense about transferring the collective sins of the Jews onto the Gentiles.

Except its done by a minority (and even that's replaced by less animal cruel alternatives) and the more well know acts of Yom Kippur that are done by the absolute majority are fasting from both food and water for 24 hours, asking people you've hurt during the year for forgiveness, and praying the entire day.

 

[The Tall Man]

Except its done by a minority (and even that's replaced by less animal cruel alternatives) and the more well know acts of Yom Kippur that are done by the absolute majority are fasting from both food and water for 24 hours, asking people you've hurt during the year for forgiveness, and praying the entire day.

Jews in the West had to adopt Western values.
It's around 20-30% in the US and 50-60% in Israel who are orthodox/ultra orthodox.
If all the Jews now living in New York would move to Israel within 2 generations they would behave like the ultra orthodox again.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I agree with OP. It's a bad idea because it treats all sins the same, which is clearly not the case. If I kill you, I did something worse than if I tell you online you're a faggot and should die. That's why the Catholics came up with Purgatory, since it makes sense that you don't just get into the same heaven as everyone else if you fucked up. Purgatory is a prison camp where you get tortured until you finally reject all your sinfulness and thus can be admitted to heaven. If you think murder is okay if God forgives you, then you've got a lot more time in Purgatory before you get to heaven.

In the oldest European civil codes and laws, pedophilia and sodomy have always been condemned and carried punishment, it's part of the European's natural morality.

Child prostitution was an ancient Greek tradition. There were no laws against fucking boys in the ass in Ancient Greece, assuming the boy wasn't a freeborn male. Then you had to wait until he was a teenager to fuck him, and then you could only stick your dick between his thighs or get a handjob from him because only slaves/poor people/degenerates got fucked in the ass. Some Ancient Romans thought all fucking teenagers in the ass and anal sex was disgusting, but they were considered prudes and losers who didn't do things the cool Greek way. There were no laws in Ancient Rome against it either until Christianity was the established religion.

It doesn't exist in Judaism and pretty sure not in Islam either. From what I get the point of Absolution from a community standpoint is to own up to your sin and not do it again. If you are going to repeat it then you aren't really admitting the sin and just wasting the priest's time.

It does. Muslims can confess their sins directly to Allah and beg him for forgiveness. Islam is about how Allah is the only God and in return for getting a direct hotline to him, Allah demands you follow his commandments that Muhammad told everyone. So that's why Muslims do things like bang their heads on the floor five times a day and scream Allahu Akbar because it gives them points with Allah.

Jews in the West had to adopt Western values.
It's around 20-30% in the US and 50-60% in Israel who are orthodox/ultra orthodox.
If all the Jews now living in New York would move to Israel within 2 generations they would behave like the ultra orthodox again.

That's because the only people having kids in Israel are Muslims and ultra-Orthodox Jews and Israel has taxpayer-funded religious schools so the children of ultra-Orthodox Jews aren't receiving mandatory globohomo lessons.

 

[The Tall Man]

Child prostitution was an ancient Greek tradition. There were no laws against fucking boys in the ass in Ancient Greece, assuming the boy wasn't a freeborn male. Then you had to wait until he was a teenager to fuck him, and then you could only stick your dick between his thighs or get a handjob from him because only slaves/poor people/degenerates got fucked in the ass. Some Ancient Romans thought all fucking teenagers in the ass and anal sex was disgusting, but they were considered prudes and losers who didn't do things the cool Greek way.

That's history channel nonsense. There were no explicit laws against it in Athens. Pedophilia was frowned upon socially.
That is why you find many Greek writers like for example Plato, Aristotle and Xenophon calling it degenerate and morally bad and that is regarding pederasty because sex with prepubescents children was socially not acceptable at all.

There were no laws in Ancient Rome against it either until Christianity was the established religion.

Rome had no specific law against it but sexual conduct laws indirectly protected children. And it was explicitly against the civil code.

Ancient Germanic law had explicit protections for children.

Next you are gonna tell me Hadrian was gay because he mourned his friend.

 

[WelperHelper99]

That's history channel nonsense. There were no explicit laws against it in Athens. Pedophilia was frowned upon socially.
That is why you find many Greek writers like for example Plato, Aristotle and Xenophon calling it degenerate and morally bad and that is regarding pederasty because sex with prepubescents children was socially not acceptable at all.

Rome had no specific law against it but sexual conduct laws indirectly protected children. And it was explicitly against the civil code.

Ancient Germanic law had explicit protections for children.

Next you are gonna tell me Hadrian was gay because he mourned his friend.

You are fucking retarded. You are actually brain damaged. Greeks and romans raped kids all the fucking time. Its why Christ said what he said:

MATTHEW 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You do not say kill those kid diddlers if there is no kid diddling going on. Rome was in charge at the time. Romans raped kids. Guess who this was fucking talking about?

 

[The Tall Man]

You are fucking retarded. You are actually brain damaged. Greeks and romans raped kids all the fucking time. Its why Christ said what he said:

MATTHEW 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You do not say kill those kid diddlers if there is no kid diddling going on. Rome was in charge at the time. Romans raped kids. Guess who this was fucking talking about?

Matthew 18:6 permits harming children who don't believe in Yeshua.

Middle Eastern morals
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

• "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

Rape the child pay 50 Shekels, Good morals bro.

Spoiler: Genesis 19:30-38

30 Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth.

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father."

33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34 The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father."

35 So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him. And he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

36 Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father.

37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day.

38 The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites to this day.

Now contrast this with proper morals.
Cicero, De Officiis 1.41:

• "Justice commands that no one should do harm to another, unless provoked by injustice. To this class belongs also the duty of restraining sensual passions, of governing the body and of ruling in that sphere in which the appetite is king. We should never seek for pleasure for its own sake."

Spoiler: Roman Law protecting children

• Patria Potestas (the power of the father) granted the paterfamilias (male head of the family) extensive control over his household, including his children. While this power was almost absolute, it was also expected that the paterfamilias would act in the best interest of the family. Abusing this power, especially in a way that harmed the family’s reputation or the child's future, could be socially condemned, though not necessarily legally prosecuted.

​

• The Lex Scantinia was a Roman law believed to impose penalties for the sexual exploitation of freeborn male youths, particularly in the context of same-sex relations. This law was more about protecting the honor and dignity of freeborn boys than about protecting children from abuse in the way modern laws do. The exact details of the Lex Scantinia are somewhat unclear, but it represents an early attempt to regulate sexual conduct involving minors.

​

• Roman law also included regulations against forcing freeborn children into prostitution. For example, someone who attempted to prostitute a freeborn child could face severe penalties. These laws reflect the value placed on protecting the social status and future prospects of freeborn children.

 

[Preacher ✝]

My concern is particularly in Catholic parts/cultures of the world if every week I can be granted literally absolution for everything horrible I have done this week, whats to stop me from doing it all next week?

As others have pointed out it's not a legal process but a personal, spiritual, one. Furthermore if you're making 0 effort to actually change your ways and work towards your betterment then your confession is disingenuous and thus invalid.

The Priest will still perform the rite since its not his place to deny you, but its ultimately meaningless if you choose to treat it like you described.

We have the sacrament of confession because we were given an impossible task. The goal of every Christian is to be like Christ, and thats something us mortals are not truly capable of. We are flawed, fallen, sin-prone beings. So fucking up is inevitable. People of good conscience feel guilt when they fuck up and they desire to atone and do better. Those are the kind of people who confession is meant for and the ones who benefit the most from it.

Far too often people cite examples of something being misused and claim its a flaw with the process and not the person misusing it. That kind of mentality is why we have warning labels on shampoo.

Purgatory is a prison camp where you get tortured until you finally reject all your sinfulness and thus can be admitted to heaven.

That is not how we understand purgatory. It's not torture it's a process of spiritual purification and has as much to do with worldly attachments as it does sinfulness.

Like many things it is still considered a mystery such that we do not, and perhaps never will, know the details of the process. Heaven and Hell share in that quality as well. What we know for sure is that heaven is a state of being with God and Hell is the total absence of and complete separation from God.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Matthew 18:6 permits harming children who don't believe in Yeshua.

Middle Eastern morals
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

• "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

Rape the child pay 50 Shekels, Good morals bro.

Spoiler: Genesis 19:30-38

30 Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth.

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father."

33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34 The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father."

35 So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him. And he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

36 Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father.

37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day.

38 The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites to this day.

I see no mention of children in a completely separate book. Also the story of Lot is a tragedy my dude. You are retarded and haven't read the Bible in full. I'm not addressing the rest. I showed you what JESUS said. Not what was said in Deuteronomy, the OT. Context motherfucker.

 

[The Tall Man]

I'm not addressing the rest. I showed you what JESUS said. Not what was said in Deuteronomy, the OT. Context motherfucker.

What makes your seething hate for ancient Greece even funnier to me is the fact that the Bible is mostly comprised of Greek writings plagiarized by Jews living in Greece.
Christianity is Judeo-Platonism.

It's painfully obvious that Roman culture was morally superior to the Jewish diaspora in Greece.

Provide the context.
What's the context for the 50 shekels as punishment for child rape?
There are no consequences for the actions of Lot and his daughters for their pedophilic incest rape.

I forgot you only want to talk about this:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

So why does the Bible allow the harming of children who are not Christian? Or is there some hidden context I am missing?

What does any of the nonsense you brought up have to do with the practice of absolution?

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

No, because it's not a clean slate. All it absolves is the eternal punishment for sin, not the temporal which still has to be paid. That's where Purgatory comes into play.

 

[WelperHelper99]

What makes your seething hate for ancient Greece even funnier to me is the fact that the Bible is mostly comprised of Greek writings plagiarized by Jews living in Greece.
Christianity is Judeo-Platonism.

Christianity is Christianity. It accepts all.

It's painfully obvious that Roman culture was morally superior to the Jewish diaspora in Greece.

X to doubt

Provide the context.
What's the context for the 50 shekels as punishment for child rape?
There are no consequences for the actions of Lot and his daughters for their pedophilic incest rape.

The law of Moses and lot getting his life obliterated, literally, the city got wiped the fuck out, the story is a parable.

I forgot you only want to talk about this:

So why does the Bible not forbid the harming of children who are not Christian? Or is there some hidden context I am missing?

You read way too much into this

What does any of the nonsense you brought up have to do with the practice of absolution?

You're a heretic that needs to scoot and get vibe checked, that's what. I'm not Catholic but we share similar practices. Engage in meaningful discussion that isn't Jew bait or scram.

 

[The Tall Man]

Christianity is Christianity. It accepts all.

I like when you argue against yourself on the same page.

You are fucking retarded. You are actually brain damaged. Greeks and romans raped kids all the fucking time.

Isn't lying and not repenting a bad thing in Mormonism?

X to doubt

Doubting is all all you can do since you know nothing about ancient Rome.

The law of Moses and lot getting his life obliterated, literally, the city got wiped the fuck out, the story is a parable.

You are such a pretend Christian. There are no consequences for Lot and his daughters for the pedophilic incest rape.
And you know there is much more one could bring up about the barbaric inferior morality found in the good book.
Psalm 137:9

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

You read way too much into this

Why is the Good Book so vague that it can be read as promoting the harming of children who don't believe in Christ? Jesus does seem to pit people against each other (I am probably missing important context that you mysteriously can't provide)

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

Wow, moral much?

Compare this nonsense to Cicero:

Justice commands that no one should do harm to another, unless provoked by injustice. To this class belongs also the duty of restraining sensual passions, of governing the body and of ruling in that sphere in which the appetite is king. We should never seek for pleasure for its own sake.

There is no ambiguity here, almost as if it were written by someone with greater intelligence and better morals.

I'm not Catholic

I know you are philosemitic Mormon.

Anyway, do you have anything to say about absolution, or are you just here to seethe at me?

 

[WelperHelper99]

Jesus does like to pit people against each other (I am probably missing important context you mysteriously can't provide)
Wow, moral much?

That is the second coming my man. Jesus is not a hippie. Either get on the bus or get left behind.

 

[The Tall Man]

That is the second coming my man. Jesus is not a hippie. Either get on the bus or get left behind.

Psalm 137 is not about the Second Coming. You’re such a typical online anime profile Christian; it’s like you’re doing a bit.
I think you have shown enough of your lack of knowledge for today.

You still haven’t paid thread tax. Let us hear your take regarding absolution and its implications for avoiding consequences.