日本語を勉強しよう! Let's Learn Japanese! - Everything and anything that can help with learning Japanese language

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

The idea behind the screenshot was to avoid foul play of people using google translate to cheat and possibly soft-force people to look up words manually. That's why it's all furiganized. But now I see I might have misjudged things. I'll post proper text next time.

I'll post my version after Abaddon if he posts before the day ends.
As for the context, they're 3 siblings. 2 older brothers and a younger sister.

 

[quisquiliae]

The idea behind the screenshot was to avoid foul play of people using google translate to cheat and possibly soft-force people to look up words manually. That's why it's all furiganized. But now I see I might have misjudged things. I'll post proper text next time.

I thought that was probably what you were going for with the screenshot. I just figured its pretty much on the honor system anyway cause you can stick it in a translator as long as you can type in Japanese. Doing it manually is a much better exercise, and I did wait to mess with Mokuro until I had completed my translation. It's just a lot easier to send the words to Anki if you can send them from the source instead of a sending a Jisho result and then manually typing the rest of the sentence. Posting the raw text lowers the bar for entry, but does make the exercise less useful overall if people are only using Yomichan. I probably should have refrained from posting the raw text.

On the context: I thought that was the case initially and then talked myself out of it, in hindsight that makes way more sense but so much of Japanese reads like a 3rd person narrator.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Alright, my turn.

This text might've been a bit hard right off the bat...

Spoiler

In the bedroom, Ulises heard about his younger sister's circumstances from his wife. Apparently, she hated the engagement that their older brother had suggested and had ran away from home.
Being told this random reason for leaving home, he frowned. It was because he thought that she should have spoken with their older brother more before running away. If you asked him whether he was angry or not, he could only answer that he was mad. It was natural for an older brother to worry about his unmarried younger sister.

I thought that was probably what you were going for with the screenshot. I just figured its pretty much on the honor system anyway cause you can stick it in a translator as long as you can type in Japanese. Doing it manually is a much better exercise, and I did wait to mess with Mokuro until I had completed my translation. It's just a lot easier to send the words to Anki if you can send them from the source instead of a sending a Jisho result and then manually typing the rest of the sentence. Posting the raw text lowers the bar for entry, but does make the exercise less useful overall if people are only using Yomichan. I probably should have refrained from posting the raw text.

On the context: I thought that was the case initially and then talked myself out of it, in hindsight that makes way more sense but so much of Japanese reads like a 3rd person narrator.

It's okay, in the end nobody can stop you from cheating if you're determined. Next time I can post 2 versions, one as a screenshot and one as raw text, both in spoilers. That way it'll be a "choose your poison" situation.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Please submit your translations in a spoiler

I'll do ya one better. I'll do a few spoilers.

My initial reading:

I'll do ya one better. I'll do a few spoilers.

My initial reading:

Spoiler: Only what I can tell, unassisted without looking up anything.

(The line starting with the Katakana) Urisesu-wa, wife's bedroom little sister's occurrence (unknown)-wo and something to do with hearing or having heard.

(Starting at) 兄 - Older Brother from (Susume) from (unknown kanji)-ga (Unknown Location)-de, House/Home-wo (unknown Kanji), The rest of the sentence is unknown to me but it looks like it has something to do with leaving.

(Starting at) それが - This House (Unknown Kanji + tou +na), Reason (karuto). (Unknown Kanji)-ha (unknown kanji)-wo (someru). House/Home +で (typically implies leaving or exiting?), 前 implying in front of or before+ に

(Starting at) もっと - (Unknown work) + よく+ Brother. It seems like something to do with a nice older brother talking. I see the kanji for "all" 会う but I don't know enough words around it to really know what's going on. Although I can tell someone is thinking about something.

(Staring at) (Unknown Kanji (Sorry, I am having a hard time finding this one)) - (Unknown Kanji) + Unknown words in Hiragana till we hit 間かれたら. I don't actually know what that means, I just know that 間 is used in the measurement of time and various intervals (of course 空間 means "space" so it probably has a use here I'm unfamiliar with). 怒っている - Again, completely unknown to me. I see that its followed by 答え which I think means "answer" followed by 前 which I see on youtube all the time like 6時前 which I'm fairly certain means (6 hours ago), so I'm going to assume that means whatever is happening in this sentence, an answer was given already.

(Starting at 嫁入り) I don't know what that means, but again we have 前 which indicates either "Before" or "in front of" and that is showing ownership of 妹 which is again the little sister. She in turn shows ownership in someway of 身 (which I don't know what that means) and 案 which is used to indicate relaxation or ease.

That leaves us really with the last sentence, which has something to do with the Older Brother. 当たり 前 which I want to say indicates an earlier success of some sort. I don't know what だから means.

Alright so that's my initial read without looking anything up. Trying again we'll see if I can figure out what this means based on what context I know, and then if I can, I'll put together a third translation which is what I think it all means when it all comes together.

Spoiler: The story after I've looked up the stuff I don't know

Uliseus, wife's bedroom little sister's (condition/circumstance)-wo 聞いた (Unknown Kanji).
Older Brother's recommendation being marriage-ga disliking. Home-wo (flying;leaping;flight;leap)-ni running away from home-ni (suitable; proper; appropriate; adequate; fair).

(This next part is kind of fucky, so I'm gonna try and piece it together)
The definitions I'm getting are "Shite" - Indicative of being "by" (indicating an action); as (a group, etc.)
"Kita" which Jisho is insisting means north, though if that were true it would be written as 北
"Toiu" which I'm seeing as "called; named' that says; that" when usually written as just kana
”の” which just indicates a possessive
"だ” which means "be; is"

The TL;DR is, I have no idea what that means.

Moving on:

I have a strong feeling the following sentence is along the lines of "This is the reason (they) all understand for running away from home and, her boyfriend's eyebrows lowered. Left home before more her older brother said to think about it." - The sentence doesn't flow nice, but that's kind of what I'm getting from it.

"Someone got angry and lost their temper at the answer given. The little sister was anxious before her wedding. The older brother's success before...something!"

Okay so that's roughly what I get using a dictionary to look up all the Kanji I don't know. That leaves putting it all together, which I'm not gonna lie is gonna be rough. This'll probably look dumb. I haven't really ever tried translating like this before, but I'm determined to get it right and the only way to do that is to embrace suffering and be willing to look retarded so here goes:

Spoiler: Final Translation

Uliseus passed by his wife's bedroom where (someone's) little sister had come to a decision. Her older brother did not like the decision and wanted her to run away from home. They understood the reason for running away and spoke about it with lowered eyebrows quietly. (Her) Older Brother got angry when he thought about it and lost his temper.

The older brother who lost his temper was successful in making his little sister anxious before her wedding.

Sorry for the lateness of the reply, its my first anniversary IRL so I've been working on this translation on and off the last few days!

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Oooh boy, now that we have all three answers, let's discuss.

Starting with @quisquiliae's version.

Spoiler

Ulysses is the proper version of the name, you're right.

>Unsatisfied with his marriage recommendations, she ran away from home.

I think you did a good job of interpreting this sentence despite missing a lot of context. In this context, the person who was suggesting marriage to the younger sister was their oldest brother.

>He furrowed his brow, and thought she would have had a better reason for running away.

I honestly had a hard time with this sentence. それが、家出に適当な理由かと言われると、彼は眉をひそめる。When translated literally, it could mean something like "if he was asked whether it was a suitable reason for running way from home, he'd frown" but then this doesn't make sense. 適当 in this case can also mean random, sloppy, half-hearted so in my mind, I linked it to him thinking about whether this was a good enough reason for somebody to run away from them home and getting angry because it's obviously kinda dumb.

>Before she ran away, they had been constantly discussing and thinking about what she should do.
話し合うべき is what tells you that he's talking about what she *should* have done before running away.

>He was angry that she wouldn't listen or respond to him.

Now this part is pretty off. 怒っているかと聞かれたら、怒っているとしか答えようがなかった。嫁入り前の妹の身を案じるのは、兄ならば当たり前なのだから。

たら is this case implies when/if, so the first sentence is a hypothetical "if you asked him whether he was angry". I assume 答えよう is what tripped you up in the second part but that's just plain old 答える. Those kinda sentence structure often appears in LNs. Anyway, the second part is still about Ulysses so the whole sentence is something like "if you asked him whether he was angry, he would have no choice but to say that he *was* angry. ようがない is a sentence pattern that means "there is no way but to" or stuff like that.

The last sentence looks fine to me, though I think keeping "younger" and "older" is better in cases like this. Imo the emphasis here is on the *older* brother keeping out for the younger sibling

Now for @Abbadon's Gate. I'm actually so lost where to start from...

Spoiler

>Uliseus passed by his wife's bedroom where (someone's) little sister had come to a decision.
Good educated game on the name, the Ulysses is the actual version. Now, where did you get "passed", "wife's bedroom" and "come to a decision?"
ウリセスは Ulysses
妻から from his wife
寝室で in the bedroom (we had a whole conversation before about how で designates a location
妹の事情 (his) younger sister's (because の indicates possession) situation
聞いいた heard


>Her older brother did not like the decision and wanted her to run away from home.
It's the total opposite. I do understand the confusion with the subject, but context-wise we know that it's the younger sister.
兄から勧められた縁談が嫌で (she)hated(嫌) the engagement(縁談) suggestion(勧められた) from her older brother (兄から) (I'm translating it roughly here)
家を飛び出してきたというのだ。- 家をとび‐だす means to run out of home/from home. というのだ is something like or so she says.

>They understood the reason for running away and spoke about it with lowered eyebrows quietly.
I already talk about this sentence in the above spoiler.

>(Her) Older Brother got angry when he thought about it and lost his temper.
This is a completely different sentence then the one that comes after.
家出の前に、もっとよく兄と話し合うべきだろうと考えたからだ。 I think you're fully missing this.
I assume 怒っているかと聞かれたら、怒っているとしか答えようがなかった。 is what you translated. I also talk about this in the above spoiler.

怒っている(angry)かと(whether)聞かれ(asked)たら(if))、怒っている(was angry)としか答えようがなかった(had to answer)。

>The older brother who lost his temper was successful in making his little sister anxious before her wedding.
This is also very wrong.

嫁入り前の妹 unmarried younger sister
の 身を案じる worried about
のは being

兄ならば for older brother
当たり前natural
なのだから。is

Any questions? comments? stuff you guys noticed?

 

[quisquiliae]

Any questions? comments? stuff you guys noticed?

Which light novel is this from? I didn't want to go looking around for fear of spoiling things. I am pleased I got the name right, I feel like I'm pretty good at sounding out loan words and names at this point. I'm not sure if we should consider this the end of the exercise and not spoiler our discussion, but I'll spoiler mine just in case.

Spoiler: Discussion

I'm going to go in order: 兄から勧められた縁談が嫌で、家を飛び出してきたというのだ。I can't believe I didn't think of the word "engagement" it sounds a lot better. I initially wanted to localize a bit and say something like "unsatisfied with the potential suitors" but I didn't want to step that far without the context.

Next: それが、家出に適当な理由かと言われると、彼は眉をひそめる。I have had 適当 in my Anki as "appropriate" for awhile now, I should have looked at the secondary definitions. The primary and secondary definitions seem like antonyms, hopefully I'll encounter this one in the wild more and the difference in usage will become more apparent. Something like "a frivolous reason" does make more sense here because my translation requires either a negative or a bunch of qualifiers ex: not a good reason or would have had a better reason. かと言われると was my first grammar hurdle. I'm still not quite sure what is going on there but I found this DOJG entry which is how I got too "thought she would have had a better reason". I'm not sure if that's the structure that fits but it made me think along the lines of "If (it was assumed) she had a good reason, he would scowl (because she does not)".

もっとよく兄と話し合うべきだろう I seem to have really confused what was going on here, thinking that the sister and brother were discussing what she should do, instead of Ulysses thinking that she should have had a discussion before running away. It makes sense now that I have seen your translation, I probably should have started from the end and worked backwards when I was confused: Ulysses thought>(she) should have>discussed (it)>with their brother>thoroughly>before (she) ran away from home.

怒っているかと聞かれたら、怒っているとしか答えようがなかった。This one went completely downhill because I confused the recipient of 聞かれ thinking it was about the sister not asking him, rather than him being asked. I still have a lot of trouble with the れる・られる stuff, unless that's not what is going on here and I'm really lost. The tidbit about ようがない is very helpful. I find よう confusing because I originally read about it being equivalent to a simile, but that structure may just be something like のように and I have tried to fit it into everything.

嫁入り前の妹の身を案じるのは、兄ならば当たり前なのだから。I chose to omit the "younger" here because adding younger and older to siblings feels clunky in English. Ideally the reader would already know the relationships between the characters, and you would probably be using their names instead. It probably does make more sense to specify younger here cause I don't know how much a younger brother would be expected to worry about his older sister's marriage. It's nice Japanese has specific words for these relationships, since I started learning Japanese I have noticed anime where the sub/dub does not make it clear in translation but you know right away when you hear whatever word they use in the Japanese. Kind of a small gripe but it does make a difference when the siblings are around the same age or are twins or even quadruplets.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Any questions? comments? stuff you guys noticed?

The biggest issue I had was with conjugation I felt like. Not knowing the tense of words made it hard to figure out what was happening at times. Also because I ended up looking at it for so long I feel like I started adding things where they didn't belong and by the end that made things a mess. Still though it just means I need more practice.

 

[quisquiliae]

The biggest issue I had was with conjugation I felt like. Not knowing the tense of words made it hard to figure out what was happening at times. Also because I ended up looking at it for so long I feel like I started adding things where they didn't belong and by the end that made things a mess. Still though it just means I need more practice.

I had a similar feeling the longer I looked at it, I ended up talking myself out of things that made a lot more sense on the initial viewing.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

I had a similar feeling the longer I looked at it, I ended up talking myself out of things that made a lot more sense on the initial viewing.

The hard thing for me is when I have like "Brother's Sister's Etectera" it makes sense to me in English, but its kind of confusing to keep track of. I'll get better at it though.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Which light novel is this from?

It's a demotion isn't that bad. First volume is free.

I propose that in-depth discussiona be in spoiler in case somebody else wants to join in belatedly

Spoiler

1. I personally come across 適当 more as the sloppy/random/ meaning than suitable. Actually I think you got it right with that DOjG entry.

2. I like to do it in backward because japanese sentences are so weird.

3. In this context I think the idea is that an older sibling will obviously look out for the younger sibling. Plus, with the emphasis on the unmarried part, I assume he's worried about the dangers possibly awaiting a young girl traveling alone.

Are you guys up for another challenge or should we reflect on some grammar parts first?

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Are you guys up for another challenge or should we reflect on some grammar parts first?

I like challenges, but I'm also happy to listen to any wisdom you're offering.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

I like challenges, but I'm also happy to listen to any wisdom you're offering.

It not really wisdom. I was wondering if we should talk about conjugations and other stuff you guys seem to have problems with or if we should continue and then address grammar problems to arise each time. I already have the next novel chosen anyway.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

It not really wisdom. I was wondering if we should talk about conjugations and other stuff you guys seem to have problems with or if we should continue and then address grammar problems to arise each time. I already have the next novel chosen anyway.

I don't know if it helps inform your decision but my daily schedule for Japanese is this:
Wanikani as often as I can
The Absolute Beginner's Bookclub in the Wanikani community discussions
TokiniAndi's lessons on Genki
Any translations you might give me to make
And finally youtube vidoes of people just walking around Japan and stuff (I try to read the signs, etc.)

I try to work in 3 - 4 hours of study throughout the day. So if you don't necessarily want to cover conjugations, I'll probably get there on my own soon enough. I just made have really retarded translations from time to time in the meantime.

 

[quisquiliae]

Are you guys up for another challenge or should we reflect on some grammar parts first?

I'm ready, I'm sure the stuff I'm still a little hazy on will become more clear with time.

So if you don't necessarily want to cover conjugations, I'll probably get there on my own soon enough.

I don't want to pile on more resources if you're already making good progress but I got a lot out of Cure Dolly's Grammar Series particularly when it comes to conjugations. Having tried Genki and Tae Kim's guide they are so convoluted compared to how she explains it. She tries to explain the grammar how the Japanese see it instead of trying to apply western language terminology and thinking to Japanese. I've heard a lot of complaints about her audio quality and how she presents but it has never bothered me, I find her jokes and examples quite charming, however if she bothers you there is a fan made transcription of all the videos in the series. Doing a lot of passive immersion also helped me with verb forms and tense as well, once you get enough it kind of becomes automatic cause you've heard most or every form used many times. I would just convert whole anime seasons to audio files and listen to them at work. I'm probably not good enough to be offering advice like that, but I feel like I've made good progress despite being lazy solely because I have found such efficient resources.

 

[Ms. Dia Gnosis]

Alright, practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

This excerpt is from a different novel and it's in a text form so no furigana version this time.

Spoiler

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

 

[quisquiliae]

Alright, practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

This excerpt is from a different novel and it's in a text form so no furigana version this time.

Spoiler

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

Feeling good about the first half, not so good about the second half.

Spoiler: my translation

Apparently, the burning building is a supermarket. Those bikes surround the scene. There are 10, maybe 12 of them. Someone inside the supermarket probably set traps for an attack. However, the question is, who could that someone be...? It's probably Shirley.

 

[Baraadmirer]

Alright, practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

This excerpt is from a different novel and it's in a text form so no furigana version this time.

Spoiler

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

Mind if I join in? At this point in my life listening to anime is overshadowing my ability to read prose. Unsure stuff is in gray.

Spoiler

The burning building is apparently a supermarket. In the vicinity there are bikes. There are... ten, no, twelve. Someone's in the supermarket, and it's reasonable to assume that it's a planned attack. The question is who would have done this... it's probably Shirley.

 

[Hustlin' Thick]

Alright, practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

This excerpt is from a different novel and it's in a text form so no furigana version this time.

Spoiler

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

Spoiler: Translation

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

The building on fire--seems to be a supermarket, one way or another. Surrounding it are those same bikes. There's... 10, wait, 12 of them.

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

There's somebody in there, and I think it's fair to assume they're the attacker. But, the question is who's in there... It's probably Shirley, isn't it.

On another note, I don't think translation is a great way to learn a language.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Alright, practice makes perfect, as the saying goes.

This excerpt is from a different novel and it's in a text form so no furigana version this time.

Spoiler

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

Bro this one seems so much harder. I got shit wrong last time but I recognized a lot more of the Kanji T.T

Spoiler: Translation

"The Supermarket seems to be burning. It is surrounded by motorcycles. There seems to be 10...not 12 of them.

The *shooter is in the Supermarket. The attack begins...


*Shooter - Might be an attacker of some other sort. Jisho.org is telling me its shooter/archer but that doesn't make too much sense given the Supermarket appears to be on fire and not undergoing a shooting.

I'll be honest after this I got kinda lost in the sauce. Eager to see how well I did and what the answer actually was.

 

[quisquiliae]

Spoiler: Translation

燃え盛っている建物は──どうやら、スーパーのようだ。周囲を、例のバイクが取り囲んでいる。数は……十騎、いや十二騎か。

The building on fire--seems to be a supermarket, one way or another. Surrounding it are those same bikes. There's... 10, wait, 12 of them.

スーパーの中に誰かがいて、攻撃を仕掛けたと見るのが妥当だろう。問題は、それが誰かということなのだが……。恐らくシャーリーだろう。

There's somebody in there, and I think it's fair to assume they're the attacker. But, the question is who's in there... It's probably Shirley, isn't it.

On another note, I don't think translation is a great way to learn a language.

I think translation is good when combined with other study methods, plus its an activity we can do together here pretty easily. Depending on what your goals are with the language it may be more worthwhile. I would like fan translate stuff in the future, so trying to translate something in a way that both sounds good and makes sense to other people is good practice. Another option may be to submit daily journal entries, or translate from English to Japanese, but output is significantly harder.