2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

Israel has bombed the Hodeidah port and oil storage facilities again. The power plant and airport have also been hit, as well as the oil terminal at Ras Isa. I'm glad the government didn't wait until someone was killed like last time.



 
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Reports: Israel is striking targets in Yemen
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Scenes from the Israeli raid that targeted the eastern Sidon area, specifically Ain al-Delb, and led to the collapse of an entire building. Lebanon

Pentagon chief warns Iran against targeting US troops in the Middle East and orders an increased readiness of additional US forces to deploy, "elevating preparedness to respond to various contingencies”
Israeli Home Front Command: Sirens sound in Shtula and Zarit in northern Israel
Violent Israeli raids on the town of Aita al-Shaab, south of Lebanon


Israeli Air Force strikes were also directed at the international airport in Hudaydah
Israeli army: We killed 20 officials in addition to Nasrallah in the attack on Hezbollah headquarters
 

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You think Israel will really be able to anschluss or at least decimate South Lebanon this time or will they get bogged down again just like the other 2 times they tried this?
i doubt they'll try for a long term occupation again, i think their hope is that they can damage and weaken hezbollah enough to stop them from constantly firing shit into northern israel without having to actually invade and occupy lebanese territory
 
i doubt they'll try for a long term occupation again, i think their hope is that they can damage and weaken hezbollah enough to stop them from constantly firing shit into northern israel without having to actually invade and occupy lebanese territory
Agree.
Trying for another ocuptions will be a drain on manpower.
 
People keep bringing up aircraft range for Israeli F-35s, but that's not really the issue. Israel does have tanker aircraft, and with their strikes against Yemen, show that they're perfectly capable of striking locations 1000+ km away.

The issue is airspace. F-35s are stealthy, but tanker aircraft are not. So they would need to have tankers flying over Saudi Arabia/Syria/Iraq and not have them be shot down/intercepted.
 
Again? Man this guy sure has been killed in a lot of air strikes. Surely he'll run out of lives soon.
You're thinking of Muhammad Dief


In the turbulent landscape of the Middle East, Iran’s aging supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, could always rely on the close alliance, unwavering loyalty and deep friendship of Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah.
When Israel killed Mr. Nasrallah in a massive airstrike on Friday, it abruptly wiped out a singular force in Mr. Khamenei’s hierarchy of close associates.
Iran had for 40 years nurtured Hezbollah as the main arm of its proxy network of militias, as a forward defense against Israel. But in the past two weeks, Hezbollah’s capacity began to crumble under wave after wave of Israeli attacks on its leadership, arsenal and communications.
Now, fissures have opened within the Iranian government over how to respond to Mr. Nasrallah’s killing, with conservatives arguing for a forceful response and the moderates, led by Iran’s new president, Masoud Pezeshkian, calling for restraint.

All of this has left Iran, and its supreme leader, in a vulnerable position.
Four Iranian officials who knew Mr. Nasrallah personally and had been briefed on events said that Mr. Khamenei had been deeply shaken by his friend’s death and was in mourning, but had assumed a calm and pragmatic posture. The officials, including two members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, requested anonymity as they were not authorized to speak publicly.
Mr. Khamenei struck much the same tone in public. Instead of lashing out at Israel, he issued two restrained statements, praising Mr. Nasrallah as a leading figure in the Muslim world and the so-called axis of resistance, and saying that Iran would stand by Hezbollah.


Significantly, Mr. Khamenei signaled that it would be Hezbollah, not Iran, that would be leading any response to Israel, and that Iran would play a supporting role. “All of the forces in the resistance stand by Hezbollah,” Mr. Khamenei said. “It will be Hezbollah, at the helm of the resistance forces, that will determine the fate of the region.”
It was a striking sign, some analysts said, that Mr. Khamenei may have no way to effectively respond at the moment to Israel’s onslaught on his proxies. Faced with a choice between all-out war with Israel or lying low in the interest of self-preservation, he appears to be choosing the latter.

“They are completely checkmated by Israel at this moment,” said Sanam Vakil, the director for Middle East at Chatham House. “Khamenei’s statement is indicative of the gravity of the moment and the caution; he is not publicly committing to anything that he can’t deliver.”


After Mr. Khamenei’s statements, a flurry of reactions from senior Iranian officials and military commanders had the same cautious tone, outsourcing revenge to other militia groups in the region. Gen. Hossein Salami, the commander in chief of the Revolutionary Guards, said that it would be “Hezbollah, Hamas and other Palestinian militants” that would deliver blows to Israel.
In Tehran, the news of Mr. Nasrallah’s death cast a pall of shock and anxiety over senior officials who wondered in private phone calls and during emergency meetings if Israel would strike Iran next, and if Mr. Khamenei would be its next target, the four Iranian officials said in telephone interviews.
“This was an incredibly heavy blow, and realistically speaking, we have no clear path for recovering from this loss,” Mohammad Ali Abtahi, a former vice president of Iran, said in an interview from Tehran on Saturday. “We will not go to war, that’s off the table. But Iran will also not reverse course in supporting the militant groups in the region, nor in defusing tensions with the West. All of these things can be pursued at the same time.”
Mr. Abtahi said the collective feeling among Iranian officials was one of “shock, anger, sadness and a lot of anxiety.”

This was far different from the sentiment after Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, when Iran and its other proxies celebrated the surprise incursion. At that time, Hezbollah almost immediately attacked Israel’s north with rockets and continued exchanging fire. Iran gradually activated its network of militant groups known collectively as the “axis of resistance” to open fronts against Israel and create chaos in the region to pressure both the United States and Israel into a cease-fire with Hamas.
For Iran, the gamble was to keep the pressure percolating without setting off an all-out regional war.
In many ways, the yearlong confrontation between Iran and its proxies and Israel came to a violent head when Mr. Nasrallah was killed. Iran’s effort to weaken Israel through its proxies has appeared to backfire, leading to a catastrophic blow against its most strategic ally.
When the news broke that Israel had most likely killed Mr. Nasrallah, Mr. Khamenei convened an emergency meeting of the Supreme National Security Council at his home, the Iranian officials said. During the meeting, people were divided on how to respond.
Conservative members, including Saeed Jalili, an influential former presidential candidate, argued that Iran needed to quickly establish deterrence with a strike on Israel, before Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, brought the war to Tehran, according to officials familiar with the meeting.

Iran’s new president, Mr. Pezeshkian, who spent last week telling world leaders at the United Nations General Assembly that his government wanted to defuse tensions and get along with the West, argued against such a response, saying that Iran should not fall into a trap being set by Mr. Netanyahu for a wider war, the Iranian officials said.
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Other moderate voices on the council argued that Mr. Netanyahu had blown through all red lines, and that if it launched attacks on Israel, Iran could face dire attacks on its own critical infrastructure, something the country could not afford, those officials said, particularly given the dire state of the economy.
But state television, run by Mr. Jalili’s affiliates, called for Iran to strike Israel, in open defiance of Mr. Khamenei’s caution. “There is no difference between Tehran and Baghdad and Beirut, the regime will come after each of these targets,” the anchor of state television said. “Netanyahu only understands one language, and that’s ballistic missiles and drones.”
Domestically, Iran has faced a cascade of challenges, from public discontent against government corruption and mismanagement of the economy and widespread hardship to Israel’s infiltration into Iran’s military and political ranks.

In New York, Mr. Pezeshkian told reporters that Iran was ready to “lay down its arms if Israel laid down its arms,” and called for an international force to intervene in establishing peace in the Middle East.
Mr. Pezeshkian has had to contend with two major crises during his two months in office: the Israeli assassination of the Hamas political leader, Ismail Haniyeh, in Tehran on the night of his inauguration and Mr. Nasrallah’s killing on the eve of his birthday.
Those crises made him an easy target among conservatives in Iran who criticized his conciliatory message in New York, saying it showed weakness and emboldened Israel to kill Mr. Nasrallah. The conservatives argued Iran should deploy fighters to Lebanon, as it did for the Syrian government in its civil war, to help Hezbollah in the event of an all-out war with Israel.
“Israel has attacked the nucleus cell of the resistance and thus we cannot be indifferent,” said a conservative cleric, Ayatollah Mohammad Hassan Akhtari, the head of Iran’s Committee to Support Palestinians and the former head of international relations in Mr. Khamenei’s office.
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Two members of the Revolutionary Guards — including a strategist who had been in planning meetings for the past two days on how Iran should respond — said in interviews that Iran’s immediate priority was to help Hezbollah get back on its feet, name a successor to Mr. Nasrallah, line up a new command structure and rebuild a safe communications network. Then, Hezbollah could plan its retaliation against Israel, they said.

Iran was planning to send a senior Quds Forces commander to Beirut by way of Syria to help guide Hezbollah’s recovery, the two Revolutionary Guards members said.
Mr. Khamenei announced five days of mourning in Iran, but across the country, the reaction to Mr. Nasrallah’s death was mixed. Supporters of the government staged public mourning ceremonies in Tehran’s Palestine Square. They waved the yellow flag of Hezbollah and chanted, “revenge, revenge,” and “death to Israel.”
But among dissidents, victims of the government’s brutal crackdowns and many ordinary Iranians, Mr. Nasrallah was viewed as an arm of the regime’s oppression. They rejoiced at his death, dancing in the streets and passing boxes of sweets at traffic stops in several cities, according to witnesses. Cars that passed by honked their horns in support.
Farnaz Fassihi is the United Nations bureau chief for The Times, leading coverage of the organization, and also covers Iran and the shadow war between Iran and Israel. She is based in New York. More about Farnaz Fassihi

Iran plans on cucking out, IRGC is seething at this
 
This was far different from the sentiment after Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, when Iran and its other proxies celebrated the surprise incursion. At that time, Hezbollah almost immediately attacked Israel’s north with rockets and continued exchanging fire. Iran gradually activated its network of militant groups known collectively as the “axis of resistance” to open fronts against Israel and create chaos in the region to pressure both the United States and Israel into a cease-fire with Hamas.
For Iran, the gamble was to keep the pressure percolating without setting off an all-out regional war.
"Come at the king, you had best not miss."
 
Because its not 1550ish miles there, that's 1500 additional miles they have to fly BACK. Everyone thinks "1500 miles is nothing for airstrikes" because they're thinking the US with carriers everywhere and a massive infrastructure of in-air refueling, and alternate bases to land at after.
Valid concern, but US missions flew non stop from US to Iraq and back: https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-bombers-strike-targets-in-iraq-and-syria/156780.article

The B-52H "Stratofortress": It has an unrefueled combat range in excess of 8,800 miles (14,080 kilometers). For more than 60 years, B-52s have been the backbone of the strategic bomber force for the United States. The B-52 is capable of dropping or launching the widest array of weapons in the U.S. inventory.

These machines were designed to strike a target on any location on planet. Last bombings, they refueled in air over france and then italy.
Such machines have double crews, toilets and you can sleep in bunks. The biggest loss and danger to a plane is landing and takeoff. Eliminate that and you saved a lot of time and wear.

US will never risk their air crews for a ME conflict.

Most radars in Iranian service can't detect an F-35. The issue is fuel range.
It doesn't matter. If US gets involved, they will jam all frequencies but their own, HARM the radars and aa sites and then do the bombing campaign on everything that remains. You never send in your planes with any enemy AA active.
Technology of blinding the enemy is superb with americans and planes can be hidden in plain sight.
Tanks and troops, not much so.
You can look at NATO bombing in serbia. Bombs fell from "clear skies" and they couldn't do shit about it. And that was 25 years old tech.

Iranian jet's RWRs probably wouldn't even detect emissions from Israeli jets....so their jets would start exploding like Iraqi jets did when they encountered the F-14 for the first time.
Russian jets had no side RWR and exploded mid air. Iranians were puzzled until they found out what's going on.
US rockets also have far better range.
 
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Valid concern, but US missions flew non stop from US to Iraq and back: https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-bombers-strike-targets-in-iraq-and-syria/156780.article

The B-52H "Stratofortress": It has an unrefueled combat range in excess of 8,800 miles (14,080 kilometers). For more than 60 years, B-52s have been the backbone of the strategic bomber force for the United States. The B-52 is capable of dropping or launching the widest array of weapons in the U.S. inventory.

These machines were designed to strike a target on any location on planet. Last bombings, they refueled in air over france and then italy.
Such machines have double crews, toilets and you can sleep in bunks. The biggest loss and danger to a plane is landing and takeoff. Eliminate that and you saved a lot of time and wear.
They also require a non-existent IADS system. Iran, theoretically, still has a functioning systems of S-300s, TORs, S-400s(?), a bunch of upgraded S-75s/S-125s, and a shitty clone of a French knockoff of the HQ-7.
 
Because its not 1550ish miles there, that's 1500 additional miles they have to fly BACK. Everyone thinks "1500 miles is nothing for airstrikes" because they're thinking the US with carriers everywhere and a massive infrastructure of in-air refueling, and alternate bases to land at after.


Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) commander Brigadier General Farzad Ismaili, who had been in office since 2010, has been fired by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei after he kept secret that Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-35 stealth fighters had violated Iran’s airspace, the Kuwaiti daily Al Jarida reported on Saturday.


The newspaper emphasized that it was the original media source that exposed the Israeli raids, which had taken place in March 2018. Al Jarida cited senior Iranian military who said that only following its March report did the intelligence services of the Revolutionary Guards and the Iranian intelligence ministry begin to investigate the case, under Khamenei’s direct orders.

According to the newspaper’s investigation, “the IAF F-35 “Adir” planes penetrated Iran’s airspace, circled high above Tehran, Karajrak, Isfahan, Shiraz and Bandar Abbas – and photographed Iran’s air defense system.”


One of the sources reported that Iran’s air defense system, including its Russian radar, did not detect the entry and exit of the fighter planes, and that Ismaili hid this information from the supreme leader to cover his service failure. However Iranian intelligence discovered that the Israeli fighter jets had carried out this sortie as a test of the possibility of an undetected attack on Iranian outposts and bases, during which they photographed those sensitive bases, evading the Russian S-300 missile system’s radar.

Extremely sketchy sources tbf
 
S300 is obsolete, S400 is just a soft upgrade of S300 (S400 export version) and I would assume it has same faults and is prone to being jammed due to sidelobe radiation which was fixed in domestic S400 non-export version.
TOR, S75 etc have insufficient range (45km) to protect against HARM (300km range). I don't know about HQ capabilities, but given french have original sw and hw, americans know how to exploit the system.
It wasn't long ago that all Iran AA's were completely jammed-hacked and they were blind.

Maybe this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...erattacks-on-iran-weapons-after-drone-downing
Tors can be used against harms, but I doubt Iranians are skilled enough to use both systems in synergy.
Last time they were attacked by cruise missiles flying right at the border.
 
Agree.
Trying for another ocuptions will be a drain on manpower.
They might make a buffer zone and do active defense like they do in Gaza/the west bank. although I think the Israelis want to create a real opportunity where the UN recognized Lebanese army can take over and do what the UN security council mandate says they need to do (make sure southern Lebanon is demilitarized). I would not be shocked if the Israelis hope to make some sort of join security situation exist like they currently have with Jordan/Egypt/ part of the PA. The big issue is that unlike Palestine, Lebanon is an actual UN member state so their options are limited. Palestine, for all the whinging lefties and Iranian bots love to scream and cry, is, according to international law, not a "real State". Sure it's a heavily debated topic, but Palestine is not a voting member of the UN, and thus has no power **legally**. This means that Israel can do what it wants/has a larger scope of action. While Lebanon is a UN state and thus Israel has a smaller scope of action. This is why the Lebanese government can ask the UN security council to force Israel to leave but the Palestinians have to beg some shit country to bring the motion foward to them.

And for those who are wondering, if you don't follow a UN security resolution you face sanctions and ultimately Operation Desert Storm/shield. Fun fact Operation Desert Storm/Shield is the only legal UN war to occur since 1945 and Bush made sure it went through the proper channels and was signed off by the security council. Korea while legal wasn't done "properly".
 
S300 is obsolete, S400 is just a soft upgrade of S300 (S400 export version) and I would assume it has same faults and is prone to being jammed due to sidelobe radiation which was fixed in domestic S400 non-export version.
TOR, S75 etc have insufficient range (45km) to protect against HARM (300km range). I don't know about HQ capabilities, but given french have original sw and hw, americans know how to exploit the system.
It wasn't long ago that all Iran AA's were completely jammed-hacked and they were blind.

Maybe this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...erattacks-on-iran-weapons-after-drone-downing
Tors can be used against harms, but I doubt Iranians are skilled enough to use both systems in synergy.
Last time they were attacked by cruise missiles flying right at the border.
Hence the words "Theoretically". The Herz-9 is a clone of a clone (not the improved 7B with a domestic design Chinese radar and C3 system) with whatever the fuck they slapped on top of it. Think of this, Iran's IADS system is probably horrible in the C3 department. You've got US HAWKS, Russian S-300/S-400s, Chinese HQs and whatever the fuck their domestic reverse engineered "improved" versions are.

They probably really lack in the radar department too. You can count the number of countries that will export a functional Actively Scanned Electronic Array radar on one hand and all but one of them would even consider selling to Iran. Said list is the US, China, EU, UK, and Sweden. The Russians have their own but aren't exporting, and considering PLA wants to take a crack at Taiwan (and prefer the Palestine issue go die in a fire) I highly doubt they want to sell this shit to the Iranians.

Then again, Iran's strat has always been to close the Hormuz straight to fuck with oil prices. Considering this is an election year, the US response is on a range of "who cares?" to "flatten Iran for fucking with my re-election". The Chinese reaction will not be pleased either since the economy is pretty shit and a lot of oil goes to China.
 
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Never in my life would I witness the BBC trying to sympathise and write about a terrorist organisation as some sort of martyr or “poor guys” bias.
An austere cleric

Ballsy motherfuckers just doing that out in the open in Iran. Mad respect
These are Kurds in the north west of the country. This would be like a bunch of hood niggers in Oakland celebrating the death of a cop. Police ain't rolling in just because they chanting some no-no thoughts.

Again, when i see things like that i just want to ask hamas, pals and those who supported and cheered on the terrorist attack, was it worth it? lol
Sure it was. We killed almost a 200 jews and all it cost us was about 20,000 worthless palestinian sandniggers.
And for those that WEREN'T jewflattened, now they can submit that refugee paperwork and get admitted to a country that currently has functioning infrastructure and shit that up. If another 20,000 of my fellow palestinians need to die so I can go live off the government tit in Germany while raping teenaged girls and working to turn it just as shit as Gaza, so be it - I never liked those guys anyway.

Most radars in Iranian service can't detect an F-35. The issue is fuel range.

Also, an Israeli air attack on Iran would probably use cruise missile and ultra long range glide bombs and drones on a one way flight.

The F-4 and F-14s radar guided missiles would probably be easily defeated by Israeli ecm, rheyr late 1970s vintage.

The best aircraft the Iranians have are mid to late 1989s vintage Mig-29s and Mirage F1s they got from Iraq at the tail end of the Gulf war. Even those are OLD here with old missiles
Israeli AIM-120s outrage anything Iran has besides their refurbished Phoenix and those probably wouldn't be able to achieve a good lock on an Israeli F-15I let alone an F-35.

Iranian jet's RWRs probably wouldn't even detect emissions from Israeli jets....so their jets would start exploding like Iraqi jets did when they encountered the F-14 for the first time.
The issue is that F-35s will still be spotted launching with all drop tanks. Iran, or at least someone who will blab to Iran. Drop tanks are also going to be as stealthy as the planes, and its likely they get picked up on Iraqi radar as "something".

Additionally, from my understanding because we haven't seen it tested by anyone who wasn't in on it, the F-35s stealth is incomplete. It makes the radar silhoutte small, and renders them FUNCTIONALLY stealth in that SAM radars won't auto detect unless turned so sensitive they the scrambling fighters to intercept birds, but they're going to know something is out there on a general bearing if they're watching.

Re: Missiles,
They are old missiles that its probably 40/60 if they'll even launch anymore, true. Again, the issue isn't that Iranian missiles would be a threat. Its that they COULD be, and unless you take the pretty ballsy move to tell your pilots to ignore "RDR LOCK" while deep, deep in hostile territory, Iran just needs to get them to burn fuel. This was a huge concern during Operation Opera.
20mm cannon also can't be jammed and maybe its no longer the case, but at least in the Axis of Evil days Iranian had some no-shit legit F-14 pilots.

Yes, IDF could wreak havoc with AIM-120s or really any missile, but that means you have more planes carrying A2A and that's less space/weight for A2G.
Which brings me the important closing point...

Anyway even if we remove Iranian air defense completely from the equation, give the IDF complete operational freedom do whatever they want but on a single tank of gas, they aren't going to be able to bring a very heavy load, and that's 4-8 hours round-trip. So maybe 2-3 strikes a day. with 36 fighters, you aren't going to do more than severely inconvenience a nation the size of Iran with that.
It won't be worth it unless/until (thanks to Obama) they have a weapons grade uranium plant.

More like institutional and operational arrogance and complacency.
[...]
A total outside context problem. A lot of "TheY JuSt WoulDn't DO ThAT" energy.
I'm not saying that its LIKELY just POSSIBLE.
More, before completely dismantling Hezbologna in a week, it was 1000% retarded to assume that Israel had done Oct 7. Why would they try to justify going to war with Gaza when they were clearly, clearly not ready to do so. Very slipshod, lots of false starts, Gaza has not been the IDFs finest hour because I don't think even their political masters know what they want the result to be since "throwing the Palestinians into the sea" isn't realistic. So this agreement could be readily dismissed out of hand and the retard suggesting it could be completely and thoroughly owned as they had no legit counter arguments.

Now, Hezballoon has been disarmed and rendered wholly gay in a week, Iran being BTFO and the usual tricks of the Eternal Persian have been anticipated and halted. So now the arab-fellating retard saying "Oct 7 was done by the jews to (so they could incompetently* flounder in Gaza for 11 months before deciding to) do something about Hezbollah" as at least a reasonable argument you can't definitely rule that out for 100% sure.

* There is only so good you can be at war with the UN up your ass and in bed with the enemy. But lucky for Israel their enemy is completely inept and the most garbage race at warfare in the history of humanity

People keep bringing up aircraft range for Israeli F-35s, but that's not really the issue. Israel does have tanker aircraft, and with their strikes against Yemen, show that they're perfectly capable of striking locations 1000+ km away.

The issue is airspace. F-35s are stealthy, but tanker aircraft are not. So they would need to have tankers flying over Saudi Arabia/Syria/Iraq and not have them be shot down/intercepted.
Not only stealth, but unless they are going to send the tankers out and around Africa they are going to have to go through someone's airspace. They will be noticed and someone will wonder what's up.

S300 is obsolete, S400 is just a soft upgrade of S300 (S400 export version) and I would assume it has same faults and is prone to being jammed due to sidelobe radiation which was fixed in domestic S400 non-export version.

It is difficult to separate the S300, 400, and 500 because by design all the components are interchangable. S-400 can use S-300 missiles, S-300 can use S-500's RADAR. Which why you have wacky shit like the S-350. They can even integrate older components liked the SA-2 launchers; there's something about SA-2 integration that makes it particularly fucky but I can't remember.

Remember also that there's a level of operator skill involved especially with Soviet AAD. (Don't care, they're still soviets). A serbian SA-2 operator was able to down a F-117 because he knew his system. Iranian missile men blew up a civilian airliner because they didn't.
 
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I hope it’s not boring but it’s funny to compare just this past couple of weeks to Bin Laden’s adage about “the strong horse” that midwits love so much.

You can write off anyone who ever thought that was a profound argument and not just magical bluster. Best case scenario they have some other (usually ethnic or racial) grievance with the mainstream and use geopolitics as an outlet.

It feels obvious to me that Biden as President and events like the Afghanistan withdrawal emboldened various rivals of The West. From Russia trying to take Ukraine and being stuck there, to all these fights with Israel. But le will to act means nothing. That’s why we live in such a materialistic and un-romantic age according to every warrior-poet who lived through the 20th century.

That's a retardedly stupid attitude and defeats the whole point of Kiwi Farms. If you want an echo chamber instead of dialogue, go to fucking Reddit.
His need to mention Kikes made me laugh. Failchuds who were on the wrong side of various paradigm shifts on the right use KF to lick their wounds. A lot of them being groypers or former groypers who stayed here because they want to a-log Fuentes, but still don’t have a home because everyone else still finds them too dumb and swarthy.
 
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