Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Padme is a really bizarre character in the prequels. I don't think she was entirely thought out because her storyline with Anakin makes no logical sense with how she's initially portrayed.

Oh, that's easy to explain. Padme is basically Lucas entertaining his hippie vibe. If Palpatine was Richard Nixon, Padme is Ghandi/MLK with tits. Lucas made Anakin fall in love with her because Lucas thinks a woman like Padme is to die for, especially with his hippie ethics basically forming the backbone of Padme's political sense.

A good queen would've reacted to the Droid Invasion by arming the populace and bracing for assault. Instead Padme surrenders for the sake of the people, and Lucas obviously wants us to ssd that as good.

 

[The handsome tard]

I think the older I get, the sadder scenes like this feel because the inherent innocence that kid Ani just oozed, just a slave boy who tries to remain optimistic despise the cruelty he sees, mostly because he believes the greater galaxy is far more civilized and kind. I mean, suddenly this mystical lightsaber wielding kind man from an order of legendary heroes arrives and believes that you, a slave that is constantly pushed around and told how worthless he is by grown ups, have potential? Imagine how happy one would feel.

Anakin truly believed it was all uphill from here...but then Qui-Gon dies and its a domino of pain and loss until that boy is now stuck in a mobile metal coffin for 20 years, seeing an now worthless universe through an aggressive red tint.

 

[Ghostse]

that boy is now stuck in a mobile metal coffin for 20 years, seeing an now worthless universe through an aggressive red tint.

Oh no twenty whole years you say no oh how awful.
*makes jerk off motion with siege claws*

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I think the older I get, the sadder scenes like this feel because the inherent innocence that kid Ani just oozed, just a slave boy who tries to remain optimistic despise the cruelty he sees, mostly because he believes the greater galaxy is far more civilized and kind. I mean, suddenly this mystical lightsaber wielding kind man from an order of legendary heroes arrives and believes that you, a slave that is constantly pushed around and told how worthless he is by grown ups, have potential? Imagine how happy one would feel.

Anakin truly believed it was all uphill from here...but then Qui-Gon dies and its a domino of pain and loss until that boy is now stuck in a mobile metal coffin for 20 years, seeing an now worthless universe through an aggressive red tint.

Basically, one of the few things Filoni was right about is that if Qui-Gon survived, Anakin would've had the father he needed and he would've grown up right. Imagine Anakin as Qui-Gon's second apprentice during the Clone Wars. Palpatine wouldn't be so easily able to influence Anakin, and Anakin would probably just kill Palpatine to make Qui-Gon happy. The Clone Wars and the galaxy as a whole might've changed.

Hell, the old SWEU had Dooku fall because Qui-Gon died. If he didn't die, Dooku might've also stayed on the straight and narrow path to salvation.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Oh, that's easy to explain. Padme is basically Lucas entertaining his hippie vibe. If Palpatine was Richard Nixon, Padme is Ghandi/MLK with tits. Lucas made Anakin fall in love with her because Lucas thinks a woman like Padme is to die for, especially with his hippie ethics basically forming the backbone of Padme's political sense.

A good queen would've reacted to the Droid Invasion by arming the populace and bracing for assault. Instead Padme surrenders for the sake of the people, and Lucas obviously wants us to ssd that as good.

It's clearly stated that the security forces are no match against the Trade Federation invasion. Giving rando schmucks guns wouldn't have done much. Being taken into custody, but not legally surrendering, and trusting that Palpy and the Senate would legally redress the issue made political sense at that time. Like getting arrested by the cops and waiting to speak to your lawyer instead of chimping out.

What is silly is Senator Amidala railing against the Military Creation Act despite having fought for Naboo personally. Had the Republic have a military, the Trade Federation invasion wouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It's clearly stated that the security forces are no match against the Trade Federation invasion. Giving rando schmucks guns wouldn't have done much.

More than you think. I mean, if the Gungans can put up that kind of resistance using primitive weaponry (the fuckers don't even have guns) then an entire armed populace can also put up stiff resistance. Hell, in Galactic Battlegrounds' Trade Federation campaign, the Naboo ignore the Queen's order to stand down and fight like hell to keep the TF out, and they give the Federation more than a few black eyes, like when they stole a droid control program and a whole battalion of droids went inert. Literally most of the campaign is you playing the role of a droid commander knocking out Naboo assets and besieging cities that are fighting hard to remain independent.

Amidala could easily have her followers and the people abandon the city for the countryside and organize a resistance there. Then make an alliance with the Gungans to help expel the Trade Federation in exchange for some political concessions. The whole plot of TPM is Amidala realizing that she doesn't need the fucking Senate in the first place, and all she needed to expel the corpo rats from her world was right in her grasp this whole time.

Being taken into custody, but not legally surrendering, and trusting that Palpy and the Senate would legally redress the issue made political sense at that time. Like getting arrested by the cops and waiting to speak to your lawyer instead of chimping out.

Except it's not the cops arresting you, it's a corporate army that will not give a fuck if they kill you. I'm pretty sure the moment Amidala signs that ''treaty'' that Gunray wants her to sign, she'd either be consigned to permanent house arrest or get assassinated so that Gunray can put a more pliable candidate on the Naboo throne.

What is silly is Senator Amidala railing against the Military Creation Act despite having fought for Naboo personally. Had the Republic have a military, the Trade Federation invasion wouldn't have happened in the first place.

The Trade Federation wouldn't have an army, period. The Republic Military would protect their assets but also forbid them from building such a large droid army for themselves, neutering them as a threat and keeping them as what they should have been-a corporation that makes taxable wealth.

Creating a Republic army was the logical thing to do; Amidala's opposition to it is naive idealism that we're supposed to believe is right because the author believes it's right.

View attachment 6514441
Oh no twenty whole years you say no oh how awful.
*makes jerk off motion with siege claws*

To be fair, 40K is just too tryhard to take too serious. It's more fun when you're drunk, because the world-building falls flatter than the PT if you take a second to think about it.

If it was any bit realistic, all the logistical, leadership, and technological problems of the Imperium would've taken them down within less than 15 years. At least Star Wars was more realistic with the Republic lasting for 25K years because the Jedi were baby-sitting them and the Republic relied on the goodwill of its constituents to run, meaning that for most of those 25K years, the people of the galaxy ruled themselves and abided by their own laws, they just pretended to be one government and waved Republic flags, making it logistically easier for Coruscant to maintain a government.

A terribly oppressive regime like the Imperium of Man has rules on top of rules on top of rules, and it punishes disobedience with annihilation. Such a system would require a constant source of soldiers to oppress the populace and keep their heads down. Eventually, like the Nazis and the modern-day Russians, they will run out, especially since they don't rely on clones or droids. And even before they run out of people, morale would've sunk to an all-time low, especially since they actually have officers who shoot people for retreating instead of having officers who value the lives of their men.

Even Palpatine had to make sure he didn't step on too many toes to ensure that people still joined his army so that he can have them patrol the skies and keep his regime intact, and when push comes to shove, he does have some clone and droid foundries to pop out artificial soldiers should the natural-born ones lose their nerve. We see this in the Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire, where in the former, Thrawn supplements his birth-born army with clone Stormtroopers, and in the latter, droid soldiers fight alongside Stormtroopers and other organic troops in Palpatine's army.

 

[Breadbassket]

I think the older I get, the sadder scenes like this feel because the inherent innocence that kid Ani just oozed, just a slave boy who tries to remain optimistic despise the cruelty he sees, mostly because he believes the greater galaxy is far more civilized and kind. I mean, suddenly this mystical lightsaber wielding kind man from an order of legendary heroes arrives and believes that you, a slave that is constantly pushed around and told how worthless he is by grown ups, have potential? Imagine how happy one would feel.

Anakin truly believed it was all uphill from here...but then Qui-Gon dies and its a domino of pain and loss until that boy is now stuck in a mobile metal coffin for 20 years, seeing an now worthless universe through an aggressive red tint.

One of the most enduring qualities of Star Wars has been and always will be the tragic nature of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader as a character and the story of his life.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Except it's not the cops arresting you, it's a corporate army that will not give a fuck if they kill you. I'm pretty sure the moment Amidala signs that ''treaty'' that Gunray wants her to sign, she'd either be consigned to permanent house arrest or get assassinated so that Gunray can put a more pliable candidate on the Naboo throne.

That's why she was in custody, but refusing to sign the document itself. She was stalling for time while working under the belief that the Senate would intervene. It isn't until she actually goes to Coruscant does she see the corruption and incompetence firsthand and conclude that politics was a waste of time.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That's why she was in custody, but refusing to sign the document itself. She was stalling for time while working under the belief that the Senate would intervene. It isn't until she actually goes to Coruscant does she see the corruption and incompetence firsthand and conclude that politics was a waste of time.

Basically, yes. But there's nothing guaranteeing that the Trade Federation won't just poison her drink, blame someone else, and just put somebody else on the throne who's under their pocket-someone who would sign the treaty and happily rule Naboo as a TF client state. If the TF leader wasn't a spineless toad like Nute Gunray, that's what would've happened.

 

[Sneedmiser]

Basically, one of the few things Filoni was right about is that if Qui-Gon survived, Anakin would've had the father he needed and he would've grown up right.

Didn't Lucas say that almost verbatim? There's no way that thought came from inside that cowboy hat, he was just regurgitating someone else's words.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Didn't Lucas say that almost verbatim? There's no way that thought came from inside that cowboy hat, he was just regurgitating someone else's words.

Yes, Filoni was just quoting Lucas somewhat, about why the ''Duel of the Fates'' was called that.

 

[BullfrogBill]

If Palpatine was Richard Nixon

Real ones know that Valorum is closer to a Nixon character and Palpatine would be more comparable to someone like FDR

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Real ones know that Valorum is closer to a Nixon character and Palpatine would be more comparable to someone like FDR

Not according to Lucas, who openly made the allegory between Palpatine and Nixon.

 

[Sneedmiser]

Not according to Lucas, who openly made the allegory between Palpatine and Nixon.

If only Nixon had shot lightning hands at the CIA when they tried to pin Watergate on him.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

A lot of the prequel material literally comes down to because Palpatine is a Mastermind of some supreme 4D chess level and he needs it to be so, so it is so. I think George wrote himself into a bit of a corner in having Palps have such reach and so many strings he's pulling. He's basically basket weaving every galactic event in his favor as much as possible so that the only way you could gently segue into the storyline is if you had a prequel to the prequels that shows Palpatine's beginning and the starting off point of everything he does to begin his slow rise to power.

But it makes sense. What we see is execution of a plan that was in the making for a thousand years.
A series of novels between Darth Bane trilogy and Darth Plagueis detailing lives and works of the most prominent Sith following the rule of two would've been awesome.

Second is a lot of older fans they knew that the OT cast wasn't getting any younger. If Lucas had made sequels instead of prequels, all the core OT cast would have been young enough to reprise their roles without any issues.

I think that he was satisfied with the ending at that time.

The "too much politics" crowd can now just be chalked up to dimwits who think taxation leading to conflict is silly.

It's something Mike Stoklasa brought to the mainstream. Before his reviews main points of criticism were Jar Jar and Anakin being whiny and awkward.
Plinkett, while entertaining, is in part responsible for the state of Star Wars today.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It's something Mike Stoklasa brought to the mainstream. Before his reviews main points of criticism were Jar Jar and Anakin being whiny and awkward.
Plinkett, while entertaining, is in part responsible for the state of Star Wars today.

That's basically my point. Hell, just looking at early Disney SW and how they milked OT nostalgia so much shows that they paid attention to those RLM reviews and the general sense of ''OT good, PT bad'' that Stoklasa brought about.

Ironically enough, brought about by a Trekkie. Maybe he was jealous that even though the PT wasn't Star Wars at its best, it was still more successful and mainstream than anything Star Trek ever did.

I think that he was satisfied with the ending at that time.

That, and the actors weren't in any hurry to make more films. People tend to forget that filming those movies wasn't all sunshine and peaches, and more than one actor voiced their displeasure at how it went.

But it makes sense. What we see is execution of a plan that was in the making for a thousand years.

Palpatine was like Tokugawa Ieyasu in that regard; just as Tokugawa profited from taking over the unified Japanese state that Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Oda Nobunaga were building, so too did Palpatine profit from being the executor of the plan that generations of Sith were working towards.

Although for my ten cents, destroying the Jedi and the Republic was completely unnecessary. It would've been more profitable and sustainable to have the Republic slowly become an Empire while stacking the Jedi High Council with Jedi knights who are amenable to Sith teachings, the way Revan corrupted the Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars. Palpatine had full control of the Clone Wars; he should've let it go on until most Jedi became more warlike, and started thinking like the Sith, believing that the ends justified the means when it comes to making a safe and secure galaxy.

Then once he has enough Jedi in his pocket outside of Anakin, Palpatine could have the war wind down using his patsies from both sides, and to prevent such a conflict from rising again, Palpatine can propose a new Imperial state with the support of the Senate, the Separatists, and sympathetic Jedi Masters and their students; the Jedi who resist them will be outnumbered, and at best, they can be expelled from power and retired to some dumb farmworld where all they do is plant crops all day. And if push comes to shove, if those Jedi continue to resist, the Clone Army, the CIS droids, and Palpatine's Jedi minions can eradicate them. Then Palps would have an Empire that has Jedi enforcers at the helm, Jedi who can be amenable to Sith teachings and wouldn't mind taking orders from a more powerful Force sensitive like Sidious if he can give them more power and knowledge, as well as a stable government that actually fucking works.

This is why I think Revan had the superior plan when comparing him to the Rule of Two Sith. The latter only sought to destroy the Jedi without figuring out that they'd have to fill the massive power vacuum that destroying the Jedi would obviously leave, hence why Sidious had to do things like create Death Stars and other superweapons to cow entire systems into obedience. Whereas Revan waged a war to corrupt the Jedi and turn them to his thinking, and he even had the idea of converting as many Jedi to his cause, knowing that the side with the most Jedi will eventually win the war. Revan just had the bad luck of having to deal with Bastila the Jedi wunderkind, Malak the traitor, and Vitiate the OP Sith, whereas Sidious had the good luck of dealing with a Jedi Order that not only was losing its power in the Force, but they were also pissing off their own Chosen One, making it easy to corrupt him and turn him against his Jedi friends.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

Then once he has enough Jedi in his pocket outside of Anakin, Palpatine could have the war wind down using his patsies from both sides, and to prevent such a conflict from rising again, Palpatine can propose a new Imperial state with the support of the Senate, the Separatists, and sympathetic Jedi Masters and their students; the Jedi who resist them will be outnumbered, and at best, they can be expelled from power and retired to some dumb farmworld where all they do is plant crops all day. And if push comes to shove, if those Jedi continue to resist, the Clone Army, the CIS droids, and Palpatine's Jedi minions can eradicate them. Then Palps would have an Empire that has Jedi enforcers at the helm, Jedi who can be amenable to Sith teachings and wouldn't mind taking orders from a more powerful Force sensitive like Sidious if he can give them more power and knowledge, as well as a stable government that actually fucking works.

While his plan was indeed inferior to this, it can probably be justified within the story.
He genuinely hated the Jedi and probably enjoyed killing them more than anything. When he's conversing with Maul on Coruscant they are both exhilarated by the idea of revealing themselves and taking revenge on the Jedi.
He likely wanted the Jedi and their teachings eradicated, just like the Jedi thought they eradicated the Sith after New Sith Wars.
And he probably needed a scapegoat \ potential threat that can be used to justify reforming the Republic into the Empire.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

The whole plot of TPM is Amidala realizing that she doesn't need the fucking Senate in the first place, and all she needed to expel the corpo rats from her world was right in her grasp this whole time.

And then a whole bunch of Outer Rim planets and corporate powers wonder why they are paying taxes and following the regulations of a government that does nothing when one of their planets is under siege.

Almost like this was Palpatine’s plan all along. Playing the galaxy like a damn jizz instrument!

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

While his plan was indeed inferior to this, it can probably be justified within the story.
He genuinely hated the Jedi and probably enjoyed killing them more than anything. When he's conversing with Maul on Coruscant they are both exhilarated by the idea of revealing themselves and taking revenge on the Jedi.
He likely wanted the Jedi and their teachings eradicated, just like the Jedi thought they eradicated the Sith after New Sith Wars.
And he probably needed a scapegoat \ potential threat that can be used to justify reforming the Republic into the Empire.

The thing is, hating the Jedi is asinine when the Jedi in the Clone Wars were not the ones who wiped out the Sith. The latter were mighty conquerors and champions of the Light who bathed themselves in Sith blood. The former, prior to the Clone Wars, were overburdened servants of a corrupt state, barely able to use the Force, according to their own admission. It would've been easier to just corrupt and recruit them-especially when Sidious had control of both sides of the war.

Also, think for a minute-Darth Bane's Rule of Two disagrees with the idea of there being a Sith Order in the thousands or millions. So from that POV, it was good that the Jedi wiped out the Sith Order of the past, since it's a corruption of Sith teachings, and they became just like the very same Jedi they despised.

I just interpreted what Palpatine said to Maul as something to indoctrinate him as a weapon. If he hated all Jedi, he wouldn't bother trying to recruit Anakin to become his potential soulmate. Or give certain Jedi the right to join outfits like the Inquisitorius.

And then a whole bunch of Outer Rim planets and corporate powers wonder why they are paying taxes and following the regulations of a government that does nothing when one of their planets is under siege.

Almost like this was Palpatine’s plan all along. Playing the galaxy like a damn jizz instrument!

That is the point. But right or not, Palpatine exposed the weakness of the Old Republic for the galaxy to see.

 

[Gorton Colu]

Wasn't Palps preparing the galaxy for the Vong?