General Wrestling Discussion

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Kanyon was fucking amazing. Taker is a retard for burying him like he did.


Taker would happily bury the shit out of the new guys to keep his spot. Taker in late 90s, early 00s was notorious for this shit. He buried the everliving shit out of DDP and others who were a threat to his spot. Once he got older and the writing was on the wall that he was on his way out, he'd put others over, but otherwise he was a notorious dick who took himself way too seriously.

He was dog shit in the ring, his promos sucked ass, but his entrance, look and gimmick were 10/10

I always hated Taker's MMA larp gloves, especially since he has no real background in the sport.

Batista was the new young talent that everyone gave a shit about

Relatively speaking; Batista is four years younger than Taker but was 38 years old back in 2007.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Who did he actually "bury" ill agree ddp is basically his one black mark but who else did he actually bury that wasn't someone who clearly had no
Buisness being a main eventer?

Hulk is just still salty over that tombstone chair spot from this Tuesday in Texas.

The only guy I can think of is Jericho, because of fallout over him interrupting that promo with Big Show that was posted in here. I always thought DDP and Kanyon were both company edicts and not Taker choosing to bury a dude, but could be wrong on that.

Mordecai? I wasn't really watching during that time but what I know of him is that he basically suffered from Tazz-itis (being criminally short) but I dunno if it was Vince or Taker who vetoed him.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Taker would happily bury the shit out of the new guys to keep his spot. Taker in late 90s, early 00s was notorious for this shit. He buried the everliving shit out of DDP and others who were a threat to his spot. Once he got older and the writing was on the wall that he was on his way out, he'd put others over, but otherwise he was a notorious dick who took himself way too seriously.

How much control do these guys actually have? I think acting like Hulk, Taker, and Cena were politicking for wins is a bunch of bullshit. Yes all three did have direct lines to Vince so there was obvious favoritism but at the same time all three continue to sell boatloads of merchandise. You turn wrestlers into icons by feeding other talent to them in storyline. Undertaker's whole act was being the heel anti-hero and that's only as effective as making them generally win matches and then losing only to the top stars. I think you're just still mad that Taker buried Kamala .

Undertaker was such a perfect gimmick that they cloned him with Kane. I imagine within 10 years time or so the WWE is going to find another 6'10 monster of a man and make him the "Son of the Undertaker." I know they have the Wyatts doing their spooky thing right now but those guys are already old they need to find a guy in his 20s, like a college football player who couldn't make it in the NFL.

 

[trent]

Pentagon Jr is a free agent as of a couple of days ago. The general vibe is that he will end up in WWE but i personally wouldn't be surprised to see him go back to Mexico or end up in TNA.

His gimmick would be sort of out of place in WWE and his hybrid rudo/technico style isn't something you really see in the company.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Pentagon Jr is a free agent as of a couple of days ago. The general vibe is that he will end up in WWE but i personally wouldn't be surprised to see him go back to Mexico or end up in TNA.

His gimmick would be sort of out of place in WWE and his hybrid rudo/technico style isn't something you really see in the company.

I'd really love it if he was a solo act again.

 

[trent]

I'd really love it if he was a solo act again.

Fenix got a bunch of time added to his deal because he was out injured and he's not going to be out of AEW until the middle of next year.

 

[The Nothingness]

I imagine within 10 years time or so the WWE is going to find another 6'10 monster of a man and make him the "Son of the Undertaker."

And he would like fare better than this guy with that gimmick.

 

[Kaizer Ghidorah]

I started watching in 2007, I was young at the time so I wasnt browsing forums or anything, I could only imagine how hard people were bitching that Taker won the World Title from Batista at WM23, it must of been a big deal considering the fact that Batista was the new young talent that everyone gave a shit about

Considering they had a match of the night contender and then proceeded to have one if the best feuds of 2007 i don't imagine too many people were that bothered if anything people were making fun of batista for seemingly having infinite rematches in kayfabe

Hulk is just still salty over that tombstone chair spot from this Tuesday in Texas.

The only guy I can think of is Jericho, because of fallout over him interrupting that promo with Big Show that was posted in here. I always thought DDP and Kanyon were both company edicts and not Taker choosing to bury a dude, but could be wrong on that.

Mordecai? I wasn't really watching during that time but what I know of him is that he basically suffered from Tazz-itis (being criminally short) but I dunno if it was Vince or Taker who vetoed him.

Does jericho even count? Does having probably minor heat backstage qualify as as "burying" when you still go on to be a hof-worthy main eventer?

 

[ElHijodeDeficienciaCogni]

I always thought DDP and Kanyon were both company edicts and not Taker choosing to bury a dude, but could be wrong on that.

Pretty sure I have heard Prichard, JR, and maybe someone else mention that the Taker/Kanyon bullshit was a direct call from Vince himself.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Does jericho even count? Does having probably minor heat backstage qualify as as "burying" when you still go on to be a hof-worthy main eventer?

I'm going off of memory, but from what I recall in Jericho's first book he got a lot of shit for what he said in his promo towards Undertaker and he got shuffled into a feud with Chyna, but earned respect over how he handled it.

I guess it was more an example of politicking than 'burying' but would you say what Hogan did to Austin in WCW constitutes burying even though Austin went on to the heights he did?

 

[Figantic Gaggot]

Pretty sure I have heard Prichard, JR, and maybe someone else mention that the Taker/Kanyon bullshit was a direct call from Vince himself.

i can picture vince in his office yelling at taker to do it. "mark do you remember the game "smear the queer?" i need you to smear that faggot kanyon all over smackdown. BASH HIS BRAINS IN MARK OR YOUR FIIIIIIIIIRED"

 

[Well Intentioned]

How much control do these guys actually have? I think acting like Hulk, Taker, and Cena were politicking for wins is a bunch of bullshit.

I think that they do have a say and being the guy who is the face of the company gives you come cachet. Also back in the territory days, being a legit tough guy could lead to things changing (Luger and Bruiser Brody being an infamous example of that.) I think it has gone largely by the wayside as modern WWE has really put the company before the stars, creative control contracts don't really exist anymore, and WWE is far more stable than they were in the 90s where WCW posed an actual financial threat to them.

Hogan is pretty well documented, with three big instances (his WCW contract, the clusterfuck that was Bret/Yoko/Hogan at Mania, the Shawn feud where Michaels turned into a human pinball.)

Taker usually has been a pretty good company guy (what else can you say about a dude who had to work against guys like Mabel, Giant Gonzalez or Heidenreich?) Only thing I've ever really heard of was asking for Mabel to be put into the Ministry so he didn't have to work against him and him pushing for Kronik because they were buddies of his (leading to that horrible match between Taker/Kane and them.)

Cena is another pretty straight up company guy, but he has done some stuff. He's gone on record as saying it was his call for his team to beat the Nexus at Summerslam and it was a decision he regrets in hindsight.

I'd probably put Michaels, Austin (he vetoed a lot of shit including a feud with Jarrett and his infamous 'taking his ball and going home') and Brock as being more 'political' than Cena or Taker.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

The whole incentive for working with Hulk in his prime was that you were going to make a shit load of money. It wasn't so much about him making you look good or putting you over. When One Man Gang saw his paychecks for his house show run with Hogan, I doubt he cared that he had to lose to him. "The money and the miles..."

Exactly. Plus, Hogan would generally make you look real good during the match. You would be kicking his ass until you made one mistake, when he would then hulk up and beat you. I think it was Bad News Brown of all people who said he loved working with Hogan and had a lot of fun working with him and he made BNB look good.

Not talking about anything else that you said in this post... but I remember this angle, I remember how shitty it was when Taker's wife (at the time) pinned DDP, and it was indeed shit... but DDP was ^never^ a threat to Taker's spot... At any point in time.

Kanyon, Brian Adams, Brian Clark in matches. Outside of matches, I believe Heidenreich and there was a bunch of others behind the scenes. He had a lot of pull with Vince.

I always hated Taker's MMA larp gloves, especially since he has no real background in the sport.

Same. He was a basketball player and in Scott Steiner's words, "who is afraid of a basketball player except another basketball player?"

The only guy I can think of is Jericho, because of fallout over him interrupting that promo with Big Show that was posted in here. I always thought DDP and Kanyon were both company edicts and not Taker choosing to bury a dude, but could be wrong on that.

Taker was one of the few guys who actually had some sway with Vince and could've easily refused to do that shit.

 

[Nicholas II of Russia]

Taker burying DDP is perhaps the only thing I hate about him. He DEFINITELY did it on purpose and not give DDP any chance to shine, because by his reasoning allegedly it was something along the lines of “We've been competing with these guys for our jobs, and now we have to work with them?”

And that's why he didn't decide to give DDP any momentum and bury him from the get-go. Although Page admitted that he was able to handle his position even better and try to learn to say “no” from time to time, and that experience helped him become a better businessman.

Still, screw Taker for burying DDP for the reason on being such a mark of WWE. -no pun intended-. He was out of control in 2001, he NEVER lose a match during that time in a clean fashion

 

[COME ON OUT YOU RAPIST]

i can picture vince in his office yelling at taker to do it. "mark do you remember the game "smear the queer?" i need you to smear that faggot kanyon all over smackdown. BASH HIS BRAINS IN MARK OR YOUR FIIIIIIIIIRED"

Mark and Maven discussed this on the former's podcast. Take (lmao) it as a biased source if you must, but apparently the chair shots were standard procedure and weren't uniquely malicious toward Kanyon. The book Kanyon wrote, where he had the opportunity to tell his side of the story, didn't single out Mean Mark as some homophobe out to get him. Lastly, this era of Undertaker's character was behaving in a more malicious way for some storyline reason, which I only remember because he was doing that gay red sweatshirt-scarf and skullcap look at the time.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

Mark and Maven discussed this on the former's podcast. Take (lmao) it as a biased source if you must, but apparently the chair shots were standard procedure and weren't uniquely malicious toward Kanyon. The book Kanyon wrote, where he had the opportunity to tell his side of the story, didn't single out Mean Mark as some homophobe out to get him. Lastly, this era of Undertaker's character was behaving in a more malicious way for some storyline reason, which I only remember because he was doing that gay red sweatshirt-scarf and skullcap look at the time.

There were a few chairshots that hard from Taker, but most weren't that hard and unprotected, even at the time.

The whole spot made no sense from a storyline perspective, too. Like why the hell would Kanyon be in the box, singing as Boy George, and why would Taker get so upset over it? Kanyon having a steel chair in the box and then attacking Taker would make a lot more sense. Even having Taker defend himself and beat Kanyon up after would make more sense

 

[COME ON OUT YOU RAPIST]

There were a few chairshots that hard from Taker, but most weren't that hard and unprotected, even at the time.

The whole spot made no sense from a storyline perspective, too. Like why the hell would Kanyon be in the box, singing as Boy George, and why would Taker get so upset over it?

I don't know, but I also don't think Mark was in the writing room going "And then we dress him as a faggot so I can bludgeon him with a chair, because I hate fags." All Mark wants to do based on his own and other wrestlers' testimony is go out and do what Vince asks. The angle itself is idiotic, but I could see any number of wrestlers getting out of the box dressed that way and taking chair shots.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

I don't know, but I also don't think Mark was in the writing room going "And then we dress him as a faggot so I can bludgeon him with a chair, because I hate fags." All Mark wants to do based on his own and other wrestlers' testimony is go out and do what Vince asks. The angle itself is idiotic, but I could see any number of wrestlers getting out of the box dressed that way and taking chair shots.

I am pretty sure that Taker was not the one who came up with the idea. But he certainly could've refused to do it. He had tons of sway and could've easily done that.

 

[COME ON OUT YOU RAPIST]

I am pretty sure that Taker was not the one who came up with the idea. But he certainly could've refused to do it. He had tons of sway and could've easily done that.

He could have. Why would he? All he knows is this mid-carder is doing a comedy routine, and the Undertaker character at this exact moment was supposed to be more aggressive and angry. The mid-carder eats some smacks with a chair and Undertaker continues to look like the monstrous heel that the audience wants to see.

 

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

He could have. Why would he? All he knows is this mid-carder is doing a comedy routine, and the Undertaker character at this exact moment was supposed to be more aggressive and angry. The mid-carder eats some smacks with a chair and Undertaker continues to look like the monstrous heel that the audience wants to see.

People knew that Kanyon was gay, even back then. Why else would they have a random Boy George spot like that? It had nothing to do with the storyline. Yes, Heyman and Taker were feuding but why not have Kanyon attack Taker with a chair instead?