The Indiana Jones Thread - "It belongs in a lolcow museum."

What's your favorite Indy adventure flick?

  • Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    60

Patrick Bait-man

The Perfect Bait-er
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As Star Wars continues to be shoved further and further down the gutter with apathy increasing, my appreciation for Indiana Jones has only grown and emerged as my favorite film franchise of all time. While you might disagree, it has surprisingly managed to survive largely unscathed throughout the years with relatively consistent quality as well as being unaffected by today's pozzed bullshit (for the most part).

I love this whipcracking archeologist like you wouldn't believe.
 
temple of doom is the best. Ark and Last Crusade are great, too but i love how temple feels like a complete sequiter in presentation. It captures that idea of a Sunday Serial he was going for the best with characters and plot.

Crystal Skull is just 2000s meddling with a franchise, and I actually didn't *mind* dial of Destiny? It wasn't the worst thing ever made and i wish they had let him *disappear* in the end. I liked the nazi train scene in theory but it was far too much cgi and drags the monie into "too long" tier.

i heared people liked the new game as well which i was sorta surprised by, but i guess there hasn't necessarily been an indy game in a traditional sense. I think i remember watching some of the Young Indiana Jones show and thinking it was pretty good.
 
I used to prefer the third one, because it was funnier, the effects were better there's some great action sequences and the chemistry between Harrison Ford and Sean Connery was incredibly fun to watch.

Henry Jones Sr: Well, I'm sorry about your head though, but I thought you were one of them!
Indiana Jones: Dad, they come in through the doors.

Now I think the first was better because it was very pure. A straightforward plot, a competent and feisty heroine, a punchup in a bar, a complex but slimy main villain, an exotic local in Cairo, iconic physical comedy, colourful bad guys, Indy punching Nazis, a U-Boat, a futuristic flying wing that explodes and a karmic death for the bad guys. It's straight up action and adventure.

I've never liked the second one - even rewatching it feels like a bad drug trip. Kate Capshaw is hard to like and it was just too nightmarish in places while also being weirdly goofy. Apparently Spielberg intended that the Indians were leaning into stereotypes of themselves just to troll the white characters but it ended up just feeling outright racist (seems so tame after spending time here). Also I don't like how it ends in that they're save by English riflemen who I'm pretty sure were not set up.

I liked Crystal Skull because the inclusion of the Soviets as villains, the pop science fiction references and reincorporating the government artifact warehouse with the paranoia of the Cold War made a fair amount of sense, and I liked Cate Blanchett's Dr. Spalko. However, the effects were hazy and often unconvincing, the third act was silly and contrived and it suffered from the modern sequalifcation effect of allowing characters to survive things they had no business surviving.

And then there's this.

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Dial of Ding-Dong was just awful and is one of the few things Disney has made I would say actually deserves to be decanononized. The story is nonsensical, Indy is only allowed some dignity in rare moments and Phoebe Waller-Bridge's portrayal of Helena Shaw is a textbook insufferable Mary Sue. Nazis (working with a black CIA spook) shooting at people in the street in 1969, Antonio Banderas shows up for a second and dies, and all to culminate in this stupid sequence where they go back to the past and shoot machine guns at Romans, crash a War War II era bomber (and just leave it there) and meet Archimedes, all so Indiana Jones can save Adolf Hitler.
 
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Crystal Skull is just 2000s meddling with a franchise, and I actually didn't *mind* dial of Destiny? It wasn't the worst thing ever made and i wish they had let him *disappear* in the end. I liked the nazi train scene in theory but it was far too much cgi and drags the monie into "too long" tier.
I've never fully understood the visceral hatred for Dial of Destiny and especially Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I find them both to be flawed but enjoyable entries not even remotely comparable to say most of what Disney has squeezed out of Star Wars' bleeding body within the last several years.

It still baffles me that some grifters "fans" say they're some of the worst sequels ever made that "destroyed Indy's legacy."
 
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I've been collecting the VHS for these movies for a bit. Got the DVD collection but I miss seeing them on Spike and on VHS back in the day. Been looking around for young indy too because it seems like a good meme and I really wanted to see the WW1 episode thats apparently hellish to normies.

I like all of them but my favorite sequince was the chink mafia sequence in the beginning. I kind of wish they stayed in chinatown longer but thats not what the movies about. also it puts a smile on my face everytime I see the Thompson smg.
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It still baffles me that some grifters "fans" say they're some of the worst sequels ever made that "destroyed Indy's legacy," smh.
I don't think crystal was the worst movie ever made. That beginning sequence in the small town where they get into fights with greasers and drive through the school is pretty fun. I do agree though that its alot more disneyfied than the old ones. I heard that Spelberg didn't really want to reheat the series but George and the usual suspects wanted to make more jew coin and It gave him a excuse for a cast reunion. I think the problem is they nutered the thrill of the films with them cutting out gore and such, Like I'm cool with the movies being PG-13 if you can watch a guy get impailed or his face melt off. Unfortunately they really want to keep the audiences kids and Spelberg lost that angst and edge he had durring the 80s.

Overall not the worst not the best. Haven't seen the newest one because I'm getting Biden "lights are on but no-ones home vibes" from Harrison. At this point he is way too old to be trotted out for something thats played out in his life and it shows with how much he phones it in sometimes. It reminds me of when he got plastered when he was recording the narration of blade runner. He is still pretty okay in that one show about him being a therapist. It's pretty okay for normie shows so its something for my family to watch.

The most recent game they made is lacking. I enjoyed Emperors tomb and the original lego Indie game. Didn't mind 2 but didn't like it as much for some reason and I don't know why.

Do you guys remember when competent directors made great films that didnt get milked to infinity yet? Pepperidge farms remembers...:(
 
It still baffles me that some grifters "fans" say they're some of the worst sequels ever made that "destroyed Indy's legacy."
That's certainly hyperbole, but since this is most likely his last outing, it gives Indy a really sour note to end on.

If we just stick to Indy himself, he's almost completely shorn of everything that made him cool. He's a drunk, getting divorced, lost his son, now working at a cramped school, hates his job (his passion, archaeology), hates his students who show him no respect, and has no interest in anybody or anyone, almost all his friends and family have left him or are dead. That's not even going into the fact that he's slow, old and can no longer believably fight. This state of affairs doesn't change by the time Indy decides to die in the past.

We find out later in probably the nicest scene in the film as to why he's depressed - Mutt was killed in the Vietnam War, which he'd joined to spite Indy - but this makes no sense. Mutt was a greaser, a rebel and anti-authoritarian in every sense and resented his father - who was a decorated veteran and a patriot. How the hell would Indiana 'I Like Ike' Jones unintentionally convince his rebellious authority-adverse son to join the army? It also damages Marion, since it's implies she left because of his depression and guilt over losing Mutt. Talk about kicking the dog when it's down.

We also find out Indy realised Basil Shaw was becoming obsessed with the Antikythera piece, and Shaw realises how dangerous it is and begs Indy to destroy it. Indy looks him in the eye and promises...then doesn't. He keeps it at the university, which means the only reason anything is happening and why people are dying is because Indiana Jones betrayed a close friend who turns out to be right, and ultimately abandons Helena.

Indy is barely a protagonist because his actions are entirely lead by everyone. He's constantly outwitted, outshone and overpowered. It's Helena who visits him, then steals the half of the Antikythera, then abandons him to sell it in Tangiers, does the majority of the physical action during the zany tuk-tuk chase and remembers the bulk of the information of her father's notebook. It's Sallah who saves him from a randy who was about to expose him for being a murder suspect. Indy hires a boat, but the crew are all killed by the Nazis (more dead friends), and it's Helena who bails them out by realizing the grafikos has a hidden message, and then throwing some dynamite. Indy gives Voller the Dial piece after he threatens Helena (this is done much better in The Last Crusade because Donovan actually shoots Henry Sr., and getting the Grail was the only way to save him), then gets shot himself.

Teddy then rescues them from the Nazis in the Tomb of Archimedes and assists Helena in rescuing Indy by flying a plane despite never having flown anything before. The Romans shoot down the Nazi's plane that kills Voller and the Nazis. Finally, Indy irresponsibly begs to be allowed to die in the past, and Helena Shaw somehow knocks him out for days with a single punch, drags him back into 1969, fixes his bullet wound, fixes his marriage, finds Sallah (who she's never met) and presumably clears him of being a murder suspect.

I honestly don't mind Phoebe Waller-Bridge, but she's not an action hero, and she doesn't have the gravitas necessary for this kind of role, and the smug know-it-all way she plays Helena made me think the big reveal of the film would be that she herself was a time traveller from 2024 come to 1969. In the age of Angelia Jolie's Tomb Raider, I would be quite happy if Harrison could hand over the role to a woman, but I can't think of anybody now who could do it.

TL ; DR, Indiana Jones was assassinated in Dial of Destiny. His situation, his son's death, his divorce, his depression, Helena's grudge against him are entirely the result of decisions he's made, some of them bizarrely out of character. He's a burdensome passenger in his own film, almost dragged or pulled places by literally everyone but himself. Even the one thing he should be allowed to still be good at, archaeology, is shared equally with Helena.

There are many other reasons its a bad film, but these would be the primary ones that the so called Fandom Menace types hate it - it's badly written, clumsily edited, it frequently makes no basic sense, it's disrespectful to the main (male) character in favour of an overpowered female non-character, which in turn damages a lot of other characters, and it's a lot of cheap nostalgia bait. If you switch your brain off, yes it's dumb fun, but it feels like the film was originally building up to replace Indy with Helena Shaw (they've certainly floated that idea) and have him die or be lost in the past, but they didn't have the guts to replace him.

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was disliked because it was seen as unneeded and a bit forced? The Last Crusade ended with Henry Sr. getting closure for his life's work, reuniting with his son, and the four of them riding off into the sunset, a perfect ending for a trilogy. Arguably Crystal Skull was very cliched and the special effects were oddly abysmal so some people thought the price wasn't worth paying.
 
destroyed Indy's legacy
Last Crusade already did that. It shit all over the character and ruined him at every turn.
By the end we're left with a loser copycat who took his dog's name for himself.
Can't have a cool pulp hero having adventures anymore when you ruin every shred of mystique he had and turn him into a loser. The only difference between it and modern subversions is that Spielberg still made the movie surrounding it decent.
 
The originals are fine movies but, personally, I have never been a big fan of anything Spielberg does. Its hard to put it into words. I can always tell when I'm watching a movie made by Spielberg, and it has this uncanny quality to it where it feels off and fake in a way I don't get from watching films by other well-regarded directors. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?
 
Here's what I said a year ago about the future of Indiana Jones:
Do you think Indiana Jones can even work in the 21st century global marketplace?
I kind of feel that xenophobia is a necessary component of adventure serials. These movies were made in America for a mostly white American audience. The stories were about going to terrifying places with xenophobic natives that would kill a white person without hesitation. The audience felt this terror and apprehension.

And today we have pajeets on TV and the internet whining about Temple of Doom. That it misrepresented their culture or something and how it's some kind of travesty. But that movie wasn't made for them. Similarly, when Crystal Skull came out I saw some people online whining that the extras were speaking the wrong dialect of Quechua in South America. Again, these movies aren't supposed to be a realistic travelog documentary.

I don't know how they can keep these movies culturally sensitive and entertaining at the same time. I don't see how it would be possible.
My feeling stands. He is just as "problematic" as James Bond. There's no way to keep Indy interesting by taking away his balls. He needs to be an unapologetic 20th century tomb robber that whips the shit out of anyone in his way and even shoot them to death if necessary.
 
I was surprised by how good the TV show was, having always heard it was meant to just get children interested in history. There are definitely some episodes that are pretty much just that (young Indiana Jones bumps into famous historical figure and learns something about them in the course of an adventure), but much of it stands alone on its own merits, without having to resort to overly indulgent and self-referential nods to the existing films.

Especially the WWI episodes have a very uncommonly explored setting in colonial East Africa with very high production value. It's definitely overly exaggerated in scale and extent from the historical fact in order to make for a more exciting action adventure. In reality, the East African campaign was mostly just 2 starving armies death-marching their way across half the continent, not any high octane train/car chases or sneaking around enormous military bases.

But it's definitely the last time you will see Colonial Belgians as the heroes in any mainstream media.

I remember there's also episodes set on the Italian front, and in Austro-Hungarian Empire. Basically all the non-Western Front episodes were in interesting and seldomly explored theaters of the war.

The post-war episode about early Hollywood was also pretty good, I thought. Some of the episodes like that involving/introducing historical figures are interesting, in that it's an odd choice with some less important or well known figures, like silent film stars and directors.
 
I was surprised by how good the TV show was, having always heard it was meant to just get children interested in history. There are definitely some episodes that are pretty much just that (young Indiana Jones bumps into famous historical figure and learns something about them in the course of an adventure), but much of it stands alone on its own merits, without having to resort to overly indulgent and self-referential nods to the existing films.

Especially the WWI episodes have a very uncommonly explored setting in colonial East Africa with very high production value. It's definitely overly exaggerated in scale and extent from the historical fact in order to make for a more exciting action adventure. In reality, the East African campaign was mostly just 2 starving armies death-marching their way across half the continent, not any high octane train/car chases or sneaking around enormous military bases.

But it's definitely the last time you will see Colonial Belgians as the heroes in any mainstream media.

I remember there's also episodes set on the Italian front, and in Austro-Hungarian Empire. Basically all the non-Western Front episodes were in interesting and seldomly explored theaters of the war.

The post-war episode about early Hollywood was also pretty good, I thought. Some of the episodes like that involving/introducing historical figures are interesting, in that it's an odd choice with some less important or well known figures, like silent film stars and directors.
Someone has uploaded Young Indiana Jones onto Youtube in HD. Rip 'em while you still can!


The only part of Temple of Doom I really liked (apart from the opening sequence) was the mine ride. Speaking of which...

 
The biggest problem I have with Temple is it's set before Raiders, but at the beginning of Raiders Indy says he doesn't believe in any of that mumbo-jumbo magic stuff. His character arc in Raiders ends with him accepting it as real. But he has no reason to not believe in any of because he'd already seen it and experienced it first hand in India a few years before Raider. He saw a guy get his heart ripped out, was turned into a living voodoo doll, and personally held the Shiva Stones and saw that as soon as he put them back in their rightful place the village went back to normal. I know it's not really supposed to be thought too long or hard about, but it just bugs me.

As far as Nuking the Fridge, I never had a problem with that. I'd seen Indy dragged under a truck, fist fight a German while a Flying Wing turns around him, use a life raft to go down the side of a mountain, have a chase in mine cars, go from the Hindenberg to a fighter plane dogfight to taking out the last plane with a tunnel and none of that felt off. Riding out an A-bomb test in a fridge was just par for the course.
 
I see no one voted for the 2 newest movies, I wonder why? Could it be because Harrison Ford is an old man in his 80s and he isn't the star of his own movie anymore (the latest movie is all about some women)? He had a good run, he should know when it's time to hang up his hat and whip.

Temple of Doom is my fav. In the days before the requirement to make all F characters "strong and independent" we had utter bimbos like the women Indy lets tag along in this one who screams every time she sees a bug. The movie is very cheesey but in a fun way. Kali-Ma! Kali-Ma!
 
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