The Indiana Jones Thread - "It belongs in a lolcow museum."

[frozen_runner]

Here's what I said a year ago about the future of Indiana Jones:

My feeling stands. He is just as "problematic" as James Bond. There's no way to keep Indy interesting by taking away his balls. He needs to be an unapologetic 20th century tomb robber that whips the shit out of anyone in his way and even shoot them to death if necessary.

This goes to a bigger issue of political correctness demanding that certain types of stories (and, by extension, certain types of thought) be off-limits.

You're not allowed to fear "the other" even if they all see you as the other and hate you because of it. Every human being on Earth has experienced this feeling, even if its only because you've gone into a different neighborhood. But the modern church ladies will not allow you to express it. (However, they'll celebrate you for it if you're non-white. See: Get Out. Even the "good" whites are evil!)

Regardless of who you are, there are places in the world you can't go today without being singled out and shunned (at best) for being an outsider. Human beings innately fear that kind of experience because it's dangerous. Why shouldn't we be able to explore that feeling in our fiction?

The other part of it is the idea that you can't think of that "other" as so alien that they're impossible to understand or get along with. At its margins that becomes "the other is a subhuman enemy"... and that's the experience of warfare. The same church ladies say we have to think of everyone like they're reasonable equals who can be negotiated with. And that's just not true: at a minimum, cultures are not equal, and it's a fact that not everyone wants to get along or treat you with regard.

We are the creatures we evolved to be, and we evolved to be deeply tribal. I think it's okay for us to engage in a little of that tribalism in a harmless, extracurricular way through fiction... but no, we're not allowed to do that, either. These are the same kinds of people (mostly women, it must be pointed out) who didn't want anyone playing full contact sports as a kid because someone might get hurt.

I know it's not a movie, but this is why, for example, Resident Evil 4 has to be set in a fictional part of Spain. Can't offend anyone in your global audience by demonizing any part of the real world! Even though everyone can imagine being in a strange place filled with a strange, hostile population.

Basically, you're right. Indiana Jones is a character from serials, and you're not allowed to tell serial stories anymore. Of course, we should continue to do that anyway and refuse to apologize for it.

 

[The Nothingness]

This goes to a bigger issue of political correctness demanding that certain types of stories (and, by extension, certain types of thought) be off-limits.

That is how I feel about the action-adventure genre that also includes bits of archaeology seen in Indiana Jones and the Brendan Fraser Mummy movies. You just can't make these kind of movies anymore with the current crop of screenwriters. They rather write diatribes on how white people stole precious artifacts from indigenous cultures. And you just know they would not have an Indian cult or a mummified Egyptian high priest as the main antagonist.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

It's definitely a bizarre thing where the nazi-killing aspect of Indy makes leftoids want to claim it, but then they have to shoot themselves in the foot by then apologizing to natives because a fictional character took a fictional idol from a fictional tribe that's from some place they are

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

As far as Nuking the Fridge, I never had a problem with that. I'd seen Indy dragged under a truck, fist fight a German while a Flying Wing turns around him, use a life raft to go down the side of a mountain, have a chase in mine cars, go from the Hindenberg to a fighter plane dogfight to taking out the last plane with a tunnel and none of that felt off. Riding out an A-bomb test in a fridge was just par for the course

Part of it is the batshit way they massively oversold the nuke, also unless you actually encounter one of those old bastards irl it's hard to really understand how tough they are.
My aunt had one running 247 outdoors in the woods in Florida for years.
The only effect weather had was hurricanes might cut power. Wouldn't damage or dislodge it.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Necroing this thread because, having seen Temple of Doom in the theater last night, I have seen all 3 OG Indy movies in theaters. Here are my thoughts on each:

Raiders of the Lost Ark: Objectively the best out of all of them. Perfect pacing, great side characters, a menacing as all hell villain, and of course, one of the most show-stopping finales in cinematic history.

Temple of Doom: I...actually kinda dug this one. At least for your first time watching, it has a sort of batshit "what in the fuck are they gonna do next?!" quality to it. Also has a few genuinely great set pieces (the lifeboat bailout of the plane, the minecart ride, etc.). Even Kate Capshaw's character Willie isn't as much of a liability here since, well, it's emulating 30s serials, and that's typically how females in those types of films were. I agree that ToD comes the closest to capturing that feel out of all 3. Also Short Round is a precious cinnamon roll that must be protected at all costs.

The Last Crusade: Sean Connery as Henry Jones Sr. is great, but aside from that, looking back, this is just a slightly watered-down retread of Raiders.

In personal ranking, it actually goes in chronological order: Raiders > Temple > Crusade

 

[UnKillFill]

My spiciest Indiana Jones take is that of the 3 real films, Last Crusade is easily the worst.

 

[Jason Wynn]

Temple of Doom was the first Indy movie I saw, so I have a bit of a bias towards it. I don’t think it’s as bad as some people make it out to be. Willie is a bit annoying, but I can overlook it.

Gotta laugh in hindsight over how the film portrays pajeets, funny stuff.

 

[crowabunga]

Gotta laugh in hindsight over how the film portrays pajeets, funny stuff.

Me circa 200x's: "I can't believe how racist this is towards India"

Me now: "I can't believe how flattering this is towards India"

Bring back Orientalism in media

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

I don’t think it’s as bad as some people make it out to be.

I had no idea for the longest time that Temple of Doom wasn't universally liked, and now I'm hearing some don't like Last Crusade that much.

Indy fans, never change.

 

[ChampFantana]

Raiders is an absolutely perfect movie. Last Crusade is the perfect ending to Indy's story. Temple has grown on me, but I still have a large distaste for gross-out scenes.

 

[NoBueno]

I was just thinking about the Last Crusade and the first scene where Indy steals the cross of Coronado. While he's escaping on the circus train he's confronted by two major foes:
The Lion, the symbol of Babylon

And the Serpent, the symbol of the corruption of the Divine Blueprint (Adam&Eve)

Ultimately in that sequence he is eventually chased down and undone by the cabal

 

[Rusty Hinges]

I find Dial of Destiny fascinating in that it truly was the worst-case scenario for an Indiana Jones film. Barring how desperately the character needs to be recast, even as an “Old Indy” film, it misses what should have been an easy slam dunk.

Killing off Mutt was an abysmal overcorrection that dealt Indy an emotional toll he can’t bounce back from. If Mangold did the tiniest bit of homework, he’d understand that these films carry a sense of triumph. Dial of Destiny lacks that entirely due to Indy’s perpetual depression. What forces him to pursue the dial is an illogical attempt at clearing his name in a fugitive plotline that the film itself forgets. What baffles me is that there was already an obvious source of motivation for the character.

After being just a professor for more than a decade, it would logically follow that Indy would reflect nostalgically on his fieldwork. We already know from prior films that his passion was never in teaching. Making the problem worse is that he can’t expect people to believe his previous escapades. Students and faculty aware of Jones’ 1936 claims of finding the Ark might still mock him for it on occasion. Spending a long time in that environment alone would give him all the reasons he could need to take up any opportunity for a final exploit that presents itself to him.

You’d have to fix practically everything else, but at least this is a good start. Indy should become enthusiastic in the face of danger and acquire a sense of gratitude for the many friends he has made throughout the years. He can return to his classroom with a newfound sense of optimism and understand that even if people would never believe his stories, he can still leave a legacy by teaching his students how to be great archaeologists.

It's a bit safe but much stronger final outing material than whatever was written, replaced, rewritten by committee, hastily reshot, and promptly dumped onto the silver screen.

(Also, bring back Short Round. Maybe use him for the opening instead of an obviously de-aged Harrison Ford.)

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

Barring how desperately the character needs to be recast, even as an “Old Indy” film

If you don't think Harrison Ford is the only person eligible to play Indy then you're a sock of the German Reich trying to discredit Indiana Jones' legacy. Sorry, but those artifacts belong in a museum and NOT Nazi Germany.

 

[Rusty Hinges]

Joking aside, the way Harrison Ford insists no one else can be Indy will always come across as egotistical. Not only has Indiana Jones been played by many different actors and stuntmen already, but John Williams, Stephen Spielberg, George Lucas, and Lawrence Kasdan all contributed to the character in some way. Harrison wasn’t even the first choice to play him. The role was originally assigned to Tom Selleck of Magnum P.I. fame.

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

Joking aside, the way Harrison Ford insists no one else can be Indy will always come across as egotistical. Not only has Indiana Jones been played by many different actors and stuntmen already, but John Williams, Stephen Spielberg, George Lucas, and Lawrence Kasdan all contributed to the character in some way. Harrison wasn’t even the first choice to play him. The role was originally assigned to Tom Selleck of Magnum P.I. fame.

YWNBHF