Off-Topic MtFs in Women's Sports / Title IX Demolition

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I mean, the troon ideology spent the last 15 years building seemingly unstoppable momentum until Bud Light decided to use a troon from TikTok as a spokesman. That, to me, seems the thing that normies actually noticed, pushed back on, and win against the trans movement. I think that was the start of the pendulum slowing down.
The way I saw it with the Bud Light thing was it had a very specific trigger, which was taking a tried and true brand that was associated with masculinity, hard work and everyday American life and then turning it into exactly not that. Normie Americans, more than any other First World society, seem to have a very specific line of how much you can fuck with things that matter to them, that a college educated marketing executive would be intellectually incapable of understanding - things like guns, cereal and the Superbowl. It wasn't even pushback, it was basically 'NO. Fuck off. We ain't buying'. You see the same, lesser reaction from multiple DEI organized advertising campaigns like the recent one from Jaguar (which is British, so fewer people cared). Most of them don't get any exposure to these issues on sports because Americans don't seem to really care about foreign competitions and troons aren't interested in infiltrating male dominated football.

The pattern seems to be like DEI people, trannies only make headlines getting into places which are safeguarded by normies (as opposed to nerdy spaces) who simply won't accept it. We're seeing the same with trans health care facing the Supreme Court - it's been a slower burn because Americans were slowly exposed to this stuff through their children buying into it before they even understood it. I don't think there'll be some mass reckoning for trans ideology, because contrary to what Leftists think, the public isn't retributive. It's just 'NO. We're not going to take it'.

For me, winning in this context would require an incident that got into the public consciousness that resulted in a mass exposure of what being transgender today actually means - the gaslighting, the cultlike mentality, the delusional lying, the barbaric surgeries, the fetishism, the lax medical gatekeeping, all of it. It would happen to affect something non-political that normies pay attention to and care about.
 
Great news. This is a good precedent because yes, its insane to allow men to compete against women in any sport, but golf is one of those interesting ones that lends itself to whataboutism moreso than contact sports or even racing sports. "BUT JOHN DALEY IS A FAT DRUNK AND HE BEAT (insert fit, non-drunk player here) SO THERES NO INHERENT ADVANTAGE OF BEING MALE", is what a fucking retard would say if they were trying to be argumentative. Golf is definitely one of those weird sports where athletic ability seems to much less a factor than say, basketball, but that doesn't matter. Its still a sport. All of the inherent differences between men and women still matter. And because they have drawn the line in golf, it should make it easier for other sports to do the same.

I would prefer it if they just outright stated that they would not allow men in the league no matter what they’re wearing or what self-imposed disabilities they inflict on themselves, but this is an acceptable compromise while the common sense ruling is too controversial.

I agree with you on both counts. I think the people who got this rule change through were prioritizing pragmatism and cleverly realized that getting a rule- any rule- on the books now to later refine into "no trannies fuck off" would be the path of least resistance and thus, the fastest way to fairness.
 
I think they went with male puberty being the line as IK and others like him could argue that they were born female. However they can’t argue that they didn’t go through make puberty.

If a kid is on blockers and given cross sex hormones, I really doubt they’d be healthy enough to be a professional athlete. Their bones will snap if they’re in any kind of contact sport.
 
Great news. This is a good precedent because yes, its insane to allow men to compete against women in any sport, but golf is one of those interesting ones that lends itself to whataboutism moreso than contact sports or even racing sports. "BUT JOHN DALEY IS A FAT DRUNK AND HE BEAT (insert fit, non-drunk player here) SO THERES NO INHERENT ADVANTAGE OF BEING MALE", is what a fucking retard would say if they were trying to be argumentative. Golf is definitely one of those weird sports where athletic ability seems to much less a factor than say, basketball, but that doesn't matter. Its still a sport. All of the inherent differences between men and women still matter. And because they have drawn the line in golf, it should make it easier for other sports to do the same.



I agree with you on both counts. I think the people who got this rule change through were prioritizing pragmatism and cleverly realized that getting a rule- any rule- on the books now to later refine into "no trannies fuck off" would be the path of least resistance and thus, the fastest way to fairness.
I know absolutely nothing about golf. But even I know sometimes the players need to hit the little ball pretty far, and a man is going to have more strength behind his swing than a woman.
 
This is absolutely my problem too.

Is it a good step that they have removed full-on adult men from claiming to be women to dominate in sports? Yes, but the wording just encourages the whole child grooming aspect even more, as now there is an actual incentive to get kids on puberty blockers and related shit.
Agreed. This wording specifically allows males with 5ARD (Caster Semena, Imane Khelif) to play unchecked. They're males, but they don't go through an unambiguous "male puberty" as the balls are stored inside; they are usually identified as females at birth; and they'll just lie about needing to shave. It's weaselly. Golf is an upper body sport. Any West Africans with internal testes will continue to lap actual women, as usual.
 
Agreed. This wording specifically allows males with 5ARD (Caster Semena, Imane Khelif) to play unchecked. They're males, but they don't go through an unambiguous "male puberty" as the balls are stored inside; they are usually identified as females at birth; and they'll just lie about needing to shave. It's weaselly. Golf is an upper body sport. Any West Africans with internal testes will continue to lap actual women, as usual.
No, with 5ARD, they specifically do go through a male puberty.

They're confused for females up until puberty starts, then it all kicks in.

Hence the name "guevedoces".
 
Agreed. This wording specifically allows males with 5ARD (Caster Semena, Imane Khelif) to play unchecked. They're males, but they don't go through an unambiguous "male puberty" as the balls are stored inside; they are usually identified as females at birth; and they'll just lie about needing to shave. It's weaselly. Golf is an upper body sport. Any West Africans with internal testes will continue to lap actual women, as usual.
Its really not an upper body sport though. You generate power even by planting your feet and your hips and torso are the main source of power. Just like basically all sports, the overall mass and dense muscle tissue that is the product of both test and male puberty already make the game patently uncompetitive between men and women. You may be right about there also being advantage to wider shoulders, narrower hips, but the upper body strength is there to ensure precision of form and a well conditioned woman would be able to get close to a man, at least shot for shot at those things than they ever could at power generation. A woman will statistically lose a par 4 or par 5 at tee off to a man playing at the same (or lower level) because they just cant get the yardage on the first shot.
 
Its really not an upper body sport though. You generate power even by planting your feet and your hips and torso are the main source of power. Just like basically all sports, the overall mass and dense muscle tissue that is the product of both test and male puberty already make the game patently uncompetitive between men and women. You may be right about there also being advantage to wider shoulders, narrower hips, but the upper body strength is there to ensure precision of form and a well conditioned woman would be able to get close to a man, at least shot for shot at those things than they ever could at power generation. A woman will statistically lose a par 4 or par 5 at tee off to a man playing at the same (or lower level) because they just cant get the yardage on the first shot.
Thanks for the collateral, it's not a sport I follow closely (am peasant). This article shows comparisons of stats for both sexes, which has a big male advantage for distance and individuals scoring better than average/birdies, and a female advantage for accuracy. But even based on that quick review, better accuracy doesn't seem to compensate for being a lady. Many of the women that played in the men's leagues needed sponsor exemptions because their scores didn't meet the cut-offs.

No, with 5ARD, they specifically do go through a male puberty.

They're confused for females up until puberty starts, then it all kicks in.
Fair, point taken. The issue is that "going through male puberty" is fairly ambiguous wording that lets coaches and players evade medical examinations. A black-and-white karyotype test is more solid evidence to prevent edge cases from dominating the rankings and can't be gamed by pre-medicating prior to a blood test.
 
thats interesting i didnt know women were more accurate. its such a mental shitshow of a game that theres probably a bunch of weird differences between how men and women and how they play when they are winning, chasing, or totally out of it.
 
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But that's why it really isn't a win. If this becomes the line from other sporting organizations, then by their own logic transgender activists could justifiably insist that underage transition is necessary for athletes to not be discriminated against.
Having been a kids swim coach for many years, while you can recognise potential prior to puberty, it isn’t until puberty that some kids really become athletes. Prepubescent boys might be deemed “sporty” but it would be very difficult to argue they are being discriminated against as “athletes” if they don’t get access to puberty blockers. Tanner stage 2 occurs around 11.5 years. There’s little chance the way the world is changing opinions with more mainstream troon coverage, there will be many boys that don’t hit Tanner stage 2. If medically transitioning children does eventually get banned throughout the world, and in time I do believe it will happen, then no males will qualify under these rules.
 
Having been a kids swim coach for many years, while you can recognise potential prior to puberty, it isn’t until puberty that some kids really become athletes. Prepubescent boys might be deemed “sporty” but it would be very difficult to argue they are being discriminated against as “athletes” if they don’t get access to puberty blockers. Tanner stage 2 occurs around 11.5 years. There’s little chance the way the world is changing opinions with more mainstream troon coverage, there will be many boys that don’t hit Tanner stage 2. If medically transitioning children does eventually get banned throughout the world, and in time I do believe it will happen, then no males will qualify under these rules.
Also, if you genuinely believe in a young boy's athletic potential you aren't going to handicap him so he can theoretically compete with women in 5-10 years
air, point taken. The issue is that "going through male puberty" is fairly ambiguous wording that lets coaches and players evade medical examinations.
I'd like to think that the ambiguity puts the onus on the troon or intersex male person to prove that they didn't go through male puberty. For now it's still generally considered acceptable to say that they're still male and therefore their puberty is male. Cases like Caster Semenya and Imane Khelif (and Lin Yu-Ting who always gets overlooked) got away with it by straight up lying, not by convincing people that intersex males were actually a type of female.
 
Fair, point taken. The issue is that "going through male puberty" is fairly ambiguous wording that lets coaches and players evade medical examinations. A black-and-white karyotype test is more solid evidence to prevent edge cases from dominating the rankings and can't be gamed by pre-medicating prior to a blood test.
I don't think the "going through male puberty" is meant to be ambiguous. It's supposed to be a euphemism for "didn't take puberty blockers before age twelve".

Yes, ideally we'd just say "only females; no males, regardless of their ladyfeels".

But demanding puberty suppression does make sense strategically from a realpolitik perspective. It makes you look like you're giving the troons a chance when practically speaking, you're basically wholesale banning them.

You're not really giving them a chance for two reasons: 1) puberty suppressed kids are much rarer than ordinary cheating troons; 2) even when you do get some poor abused kid on lupron, they are not remotely a challenge to anyone physically, in a competitive sense, and would not be caught dead near a field. I bet a lot of them turn out like Jazz and/or end up as noodle armed castratos with bones of glass.

Childhood transitioning sucks, and it needs to be shut down separately (and I think we're going to make good progress on this soon).

If an org says "female athletes only", that's going to be national news and going to start a giant legal fight. But if an org says "no male puberty allowed", that's going to come off as far more reasonable to normies and won't get nearly the same passion and attention. It sounds sciency and the troons would need to work harder to rebut it in the public sphere.

I think there's value in pulling goofy little tricks like that until the troon menace is truly dead and buried. They're on the way out, but it'll take awhile.

But if some red state does go full "female athletes only", I can't really criticize that. Either way works. I guess I'm just being especially cautious.
 
If an org says "female athletes only", that's going to be national news and going to start a giant legal fight. But if an org says "no male puberty allowed", that's going to come off as far more reasonable to normies and won't get nearly the same passion and attention. It sounds sciency and the troons would need to work harder to rebut it in the public sphere.
I’m pretty sure that this is the point. XY puberty is scientifically provable. “Female” on the other hand is now corrupted language, corrupted by the very people that have been able to argue legal (with successes) that sex is changeable. The exclusion rules need to be far more specific and unequivocal.
 
But if some red state does go full "female athletes only", I can't really criticize that. Either way works. I guess I'm just being especially cautious.
It needs, ultimately, to be that.

Yes, trans activists have destroyed the language, and a legally sound description needs to be used, but 'not going through a male puberty' implies that there are no relevant differences between boys and girls before puberty, which is false.

You can't even say 'the sex on your original birth certificate' because as we've seen Imane Khelif's says 'female' (or whatever female is in Algerian) and the trans menace is so ingrained that there are jurisdictions right now that allow 'X' in the sex space of a birth certificate (not for any kind of intersex condition, mind, but because some abusive attention whore parents have registered their newborn that way).
 
Being a runner, this one is particularly enraging to me.

"Trans-Identified Male Qualifies To Compete As 'Female' In 2025 Boston Marathon, Sparking Outrage From Female Runners"
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Yup.

"School told girls 'transgenders have more rights' as trans runner took away girl's varsity spot, parent says"
EXCLUSIVE: Taylor Starling, a high school cross-country runner at Martin Luther King High School in Riverside, California, lost her spot on the varsity team earlier this season to a transgender transfer student.

Multiple parents of students at Martin Luther King have told Fox News Digital that the school has allowed the trans athlete to compete on the varsity cross-country team despite missing practices for academic reasons. These parents include Starling's father, longtime firefighter Ryan Starling, and construction subcontractor Dan Slavin, father to Kaitlyn, another runner on the team.

"The fact that the male athlete was able to compete while attending less than 25% of the practices is not fair. In what era, on what team, in what sport can you barely show up to practice and still compete?" Dan Slavin told Fox News Digital. "It is not fair, and it is not right to those who work hard every day for the entire season."

Both families are currently engaged in a lawsuit against the Riverside Unified School District (RUSD).

Ryan Starling told Fox News Digital that the loss of his daughter's varsity spot disrupted his entire family emotionally, as cross-country played a pivotal role in her life. And then when his daughter and other girls on the team confronted their school administrators about it, he claims they were told "transgenders have more rights than cisgenders."

"It's been told multiple times to not just Taylor, but her sister," Ryan Starling said, adding that Taylor is one of three triplets, and all three are active on varsity sports teams. "All the administrators at Martin Luther King have stated this comment, and the Title IX coordinator for the Riverside Unified School District has stated ‘that as a Cisgender girl, they do not have the same rights as a transgender girl' to multiple girls, not just our daughters, but multiple girls on campus."

An RUSD spokesperson declined to give official comment on Ryan Starling's claims in a conversation with Fox News Digital.

The RUSD previously provided a statement to Fox News Digital insisting that its handling of the situation has been in accordance with California state law.

"While these rules were not created by RUSD, the District is committed to complying with the law and CIF regulations. California state law prohibits discrimination of students based on gender, gender identity and gender expression, and specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender in physical education and athletics. The protections we provide to all students are not only aligned with the law but also with our core values which include equity and well-being," the statement said.

California Code of Regulations section 4910(k) defines gender as: "A person’s actual sex or perceived sex and includes a person’s perceived identity, appearance or behavior, whether or not that identity, appearance, or behavior is different from that traditionally associated with a person’s sex at birth."

California Interscholastic Federation (CIF) Bylaw 300.D. mirrors the Education Code, stating: "All students should have the opportunity to participate in CIF activities in a manner that is consistent with their gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on a student’s records."

The RUSD also placed blame for its handling of the situation on officials in Washington, D.C., and California's state capital, Sacramento.

"As these matters play out in our courts and the media, opposition and protests should be directed at those in a position to affect those laws and policies (including officials in Washington D.C. and Sacramento)," their statement read.

But Starling, Slavin, other students and their families have been ready to do far more than simply send a letter to their local legislators.

Taylor and Kaitlyn ignited a viral trend in their communities when they showed to school in November wearing shirts that read "Save Girls Sports." Martin Luther King administrators allegedly confronted the girls about the shirts, comparing them to swastikas, according to their lawsuit against the district.

Then, more and more students began to show up each week wearing the shirts, as the school had to alter its dress code and start placing students in detention for wearing them. This didn't stop the shirts from spreading and growing. It became a weekly ritual for hundreds of students every Wednesday to show up wearing the shirts support of the girls and their messaging, and many of them created viral social media posts on it.

In early December, the school administrators gave up on their efforts to discipline students for wearing the shirts. Sources told Fox News Digital that more than 400 students have shown up wearing the shirts at a time, and students at other schools in the district have started to wear them to class.

While this was happening, Taylor was also taking steps to reclaim her varsity spot, according to her father. Ryan Starling says it was a "transformative" experience and motivated her both athletically and academically. She has since earned her spot back on the varsity team, and her father says she even beat the trans athlete in a recent competition by more than three seconds.

"She has had so much support from her friends, where her friends were wearing all the t-shirts," he said.

The Starling family haven't received only positive attention, as Ryan Starling says there have been multiple concerning negative messages and even a threat. The family had to delay their recent family vacation to accommodate Taylor's safety for a trip to the state competition, as her parents didn't feel comfortable allowing her to travel alone.

"There was some negative stuff online, there was some threats of violence towards our girls, there was different stuff, and we just didn't feel comfortable leaving Taylor for a day and a half and having her fly out a day later so she could run at state, so we chose to stay all together as a family and support Taylor, and then we delayed our vacation to the first of the year," Ryan Starling said.

The situation came to a potential turning point during a five-hour RUSD school board meeting on Dec. 19. Outside the office, there were competing protests between activists and parents wearing the "Save Girls Sports" t-shirts, and LGBTQ activists.

Sources have told Fox News Digital that the LGBTQ activists at the event were harassing the protesters on the other side, and even disrupted a women's prayer group during a prayer circle prior to the meeting.

Then inside the meeting, parents and opposing activists gave impassioned speeches on their thoughts on the situation, with multiple speakers yelling in hysterical tones. But Ryan Starling, who stayed for the whole meeting, got a glimmer of hope toward the end of the meeting. He says that after it was over, a newly-inducted board member spoke to the girls who were there to protest the trans athlete, and that the new board member suggested that their problem would be solved once President-elect Trump takes office on Jan. 20.

Trump has pledged to ban trans athletes from women's and girls' sports, and the new Republican-controlled congress has indicated an intention to do so as well.

The House rules package for the 119th Congress was posted this week, and the first step in its order of business is a bill that would bring about Title IX revisions that would only allow athletes to compete in the gender category that they were assigned at birth.

However, California and Governor Gavin Newsom have vowed to resist the incoming Trump administration.
 
WASHINGTON (TNND) — House Republicans have unveiled their legislative priorities, with a significant focus on amending Title IX to require athletes to compete in the gender category assigned to them at birth. This measure defines sex "based solely on a person’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth."

House Republicans push to amend Title IX, sparking debate

GOP Rules Package Prioritizes Targeting Trans Protections Under Title IX

Republican-Majority House Attempting To Save Title IX From Identity Politics
 
The way I saw it with the Bud Light thing was it had a very specific trigger, which was taking a tried and true brand that was associated with masculinity, hard work and everyday American life and then turning it into exactly not that. Normie Americans, more than any other First World society, seem to have a very specific line of how much you can fuck with things that matter to them, that a college educated marketing executive would be intellectually incapable of understanding - things like guns, cereal and the Superbowl. It wasn't even pushback, it was basically 'NO. Fuck off. We ain't buying'.
To piggyback on this, I think people more and more hate having their hobbies and leisure activities infiltrated by current-year politics. People want to watch a sporting event, drink beer, chill out with friends, or do whatever as a way to spend time away from all the crap happening around them day to day.

Between the anthem kneeling and pro-BLM/SJW messages at sporting events, Bud Light touting a transgendered person as stunning and brave, and the constant push for all activities to be "inclusive" - hobbies and downtime included - the Normie Americans mentioned by @Vect feel as if they no longer have any sort of outlet to blow off steam on their own terms. I also agree with Vect that these same people are starting to feel more emboldened to say, "I need my occasional break and escape from reality. Stop trying to fill that time with SJW/DEI crap!"

"School told girls 'transgenders have more rights' as trans runner took away girl's varsity spot, parent says"
Even though this is unsurprising since it's happening in California, I feel for the runner who has worked hard and done her best to be a true team member only to see some MTF get a spot on the team without meeting the same requirements as everyone else. That suggests the idea of "troon armor" really does exist because most sports teams would reduce playing time or bench an athlete that missed 75% of practices without a damn good reason; ditto for poor academic performance. While I'm not optimistic about the lawsuit, I like knowing so many students wore the protest shirts that the school finally conceded defeat and stopped trying to discipline those students wearing them.

However, California and Governor Gavin Newsom have vowed to resist the incoming Trump administration.
If one dislikes a rule, there are ways to challenge it or have it changed. Vowing lawlessness shouldn't be an option. Sadly, the liberal areas find ways to do this with impunity. My optimistic hope would be for the incoming Trump administration to roll back any pro-trans changes to Title IX and use the threat of withheld funds to ensure compliance which is SOP for federal mandates. Realistically, this battle doesn't appear to be ending any time soon.
E: Spelling.
 
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