Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

I was just thinking if there are any good christian role-playing games. I find playing super powerful beings really lame and i really dislike magic being predictable and morally neutral. Also most fantasy feels weird because it feels like it was written by people without imagination.
Is there such a thing? Something that is not unfun to play as well?
 
I was just thinking if there are any good christian role-playing games. I find playing super powerful beings really lame and i really dislike magic being predictable and morally neutral. Also most fantasy feels weird because it feels like it was written by people without imagination.
Is there such a thing? Something that is not unfun to play as well?
Two that come to mind is Testament: Role-playing in the Biblical Era and Dogs in the Vinyard.

Though I'd also say they don't fit because one is based more on playing multiple near east peoples including the Israelites, and it's set in the BC period, so not really Christian. The latter's closer, but it'd only count if you count the LDS as Christian. I personally do not due to the Book of Mormon, but that's me.

I also remember Holy Lands: the Dark Age, and that thing was so goddamn dull that I legit bait-and-switched because it was that boring. It is written in such a way to solve insomnia.
 
we are seeing more "OSR" projects and not just endless "5e" "5e" "5e compatible!" "Includes 5e conversion!". Which is really more of the same honestly but its at least SOMETHING else.
I think a lot of people are using the release of 5.5/6e/D&D2024 as a crowbar to finally get their players to play something else. A lot of the newcomers have been stuck with 5e and nothing but since the Pandemic because that's all anyone was comfortable with. One of the most common complaints I see from DM's is "I really want to play another system but my group won't let go of 5e."
It also helps the new "edition" has such aggressively faggy artwork and language it pretty much makes your argument for you of why to never touch D&D again.
 
I think a lot of people are using the release of 5.5/6e/D&D2024 as a crowbar to finally get their players to play something else. A lot of the newcomers have been stuck with 5e and nothing but since the Pandemic because that's all anyone was comfortable with. One of the most common complaints I see from DM's is "I really want to play another system but my group won't let go of 5e."
It also helps the new "edition" has such aggressively faggy artwork and language it pretty much makes your argument for you of why to never touch D&D again.
I dunno how successful that will be; I will shit on 5e all day, everyday but if you/your group legitimately like 5e there is enough content out there there isn't any need to move to another system.

Paizo should have written off PF2 and made PF3 for all the 5e grogs.
I guess otoh its modern Paizo so they aren't going to fix one of the main issues with D&D 6e which is the infestation of faggotry.
 
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I was just thinking if there are any good christian role-playing games. I find playing super powerful beings really lame and i really dislike magic being predictable and morally neutral. Also most fantasy feels weird because it feels like it was written by people without imagination.
Is there such a thing? Something that is not unfun to play as well?
Black Lodge Games, check out their YT channel, and their latest release "Cults of Zahak" (sic?)

 
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And yeah the 4e massive-HP-tank-serious-enemies was someone went a little too hard on the math to ensure they lasted long enough in combat to be able to use their abilities. Which honestly wasn't as big of an issue as.... by class players had max two dailies, two encounters, and two utilities which may or maynot be useful in combat, and the might have upto three abilities from their gear, and after these powers were expended they were down to at one of two at-wills (three for humans).
In heroic tier you have 3 encounter, 2 daily, in paragon you have 4 encounter and 3 daily, in epic you have 4 encounter and 4 daily+ upgraded at wills.
In earliest levels you are expected to use you at wills mostly but as the game progresses into the paragon tier, you will use your encounter abilities. 5 players all have 4 encounter powers. So in 6 turns you will use all 4 of them and a daily power(optional)
I still dm 4e games. Until epic tiers, combat turns take 4 to 8 rounds. Of course if the players insist on only using at wills, at paragon tier the game would take at least 10 turns but lets hope they will not.
 
I think a lot of people are using the release of 5.5/6e/D&D2024 as a crowbar to finally get their players to play something else. A lot of the newcomers have been stuck with 5e and nothing but since the Pandemic because that's all anyone was comfortable with. One of the most common complaints I see from DM's is "I really want to play another system but my group won't let go of 5e."
It also helps the new "edition" has such aggressively faggy artwork and language it pretty much makes your argument for you of why to never touch D&D again.
They're either going to duck out from playing anymore due to the lack of perception and trendiness, or they're just gonna become grogs and stick with 5e like what happened with each change in edition prior to that. It's what I did with 3.x due to Wizard's antics tuning me out of 5e, and the new edition is doing that even better.
 
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They're either going to duck out from playing anymore due to the lack of perception and trendiness, or they're just gonna become grogs and stick with 5e like what happened with each change in edition prior to that. It's what I did with 3.x due to Wizard's antics tuning me out of 5e, and the new edition is doing that even better.
Out of curiosity, I've got a copy of PF1e. As a 3.x grog, how do you think it stacks up as a fix for that editions problems?
 
Out of curiosity, I've got a copy of PF1e. As a 3.x grog, how do you think it stacks up as a fix for that editions problems?
It doesn't fix them at all; it just hides them better by giving fun abilities and stuff to the Martials. Wizards and Clerics actually are more broken in it than they are 3.5, and the only one of the broken fucks that got nerfed were Druids, the weakest of the lot. Players won't tend to notice the imbalance for a while longer at least.

It also has the added cheese of intimidate being really good since almost nothing resists fear and you can absolutely use it to break apart encounters if you want.

It's a fun system though, just like 3.5.
 
One of the most common complaints I see from DM's is "I really want to play another system but my group won't let go of 5e."
You can name drop me. I won't be offended.

But seriously, yes. Part of the problem, and I know people here will disagree, but 5e is a complex game. Not to me, not to you, but to a normie who only knows Snakes and Ladders and Monopoly, they find 5e complex with a lot to learn. They refuse to learn a new system because they assume it will be just as complex if not more so, I don't want to go through the many sessions of learning classes, attributes, skills, etc. Even though most RPGs are not that. The big 3 (CoC, DnD, and PF) absolutely are that.

Paizo should have written off PF2 and made PF3 for all the 5e grogs.
That's an interesting idea. They could even have kept the upgrades like the 3 action economy, fixed the worst feats, reduced the skills.

Fuck, I don't understand why PF2 wasn't changed to PF3 after the OGL, instead of this weird limbo where people keep getting confused with PF2 Legacy and PF2 Remastered or whatever they call the non-OGL version. There's some minor rules tweaks so it would've worked.

Players won't tend to notice the imbalance for a while longer at least.
I'm not sure. When I first started playing PF1, our DM sent us a pdf called "elephant guide to feat taxes" or something, and told us to choose "unchained" if there were two classes the same.

I get it. It's a game with a decade of updates, and I imagine someone coming to 5e today would have the same problem. But PF1 had multiple revisions, fan made and official to address balance problems, and the game is still completely broken.
 
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I hate "just run 5e conversion for other games" is just the goto for so many. I want to try out these other weird and sometimes old games. I know it's been mildly mentioned but I've enjoyed playing and running Mothership occasionally, but I started with the older 40k RPGs so d% is my shit.

I'm biased against 5e just due to how shit most GMs and people I've interacted with who want to force everyone to use it are. I've had one good session with 5e and that was with someone I've played in several games GMing for the first time ever. I think there's something magical about players and a GM unfamiliar with a game. It's just you fuck around and find out until both groups figure things out.
 
Out of curiosity, I've got a copy of PF1e. As a 3.x grog, how do you think it stacks up as a fix for that editions problems?
It doesn't. At all. It makes them worse. The only 'improvement' (for non-minmax munchkins) is they clarify some rulings and simply a few linked mechanics. People call PF1 it 3.75 for a reason.
What it mainly does is open the game to brand new and exciting ways to break it, new monsters, and expanded gear and spell list.

I guess its more accurate to say its "D&D 3.5e - GOTY Edition" with all the Expansions included.

In heroic tier you have 3 encounter, 2 daily, in paragon you have 4 encounter and 3 daily, in epic you have 4 encounter and 4 daily+ upgraded at wills.
In earliest levels you are expected to use you at wills mostly but as the game progresses into the paragon tier, you will use your encounter abilities. 5 players all have 4 encounter powers. So in 6 turns you will use all 4 of them and a daily power(optional)
I still dm 4e games. Until epic tiers, combat turns take 4 to 8 rounds. Of course if the players insist on only using at wills, at paragon tier the game would take at least 10 turns but lets hope they will not.
You're right; I run 4e when I can and most of my games are lvl-2 one-shots or megadungeons at lvl 5-with-optional-advancement-to-6 so I forgot you get a 3rd encounter at 7 and a 3rd daily at 9.

Honestly I think more dailies/encounters needed to be "Reliable" or at least do more when they miss, because its usually a morale hit when they whiff with.
Actually thinking on it now, next time I run 4e I'm going to do that. For encounters, everything's reliable and anything with the reliable keyword gets a +2 Power bonus next time its used.
Same for dailies, and anything that does half-damage on a miss gets reset but only does goes the "on a miss" damage/effects.

Fuck, I don't understand why PF2 wasn't changed to PF3 after the OGL, instead of this weird limbo where people keep getting confused with PF2 Legacy and PF2 Remastered or whatever they call the non-OGL version. There's some minor rules tweaks so it would've worked.
Same. There just aren't that many 4e grogs and those that are didn't want the return to caster supremacy PF2e started back down the road of again. But there are so many 5e players who don't want a new system; even if 6e is really just 5.gay edition. But those PF2 things like tiered action economy and race/class feat chains would map well I think.
 
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I'm biased against 5e just due to how shit most GMs and people I've interacted with who want to force everyone to use it are. I've had one good session with 5e and that was with someone I've played in several games GMing for the first time ever. I think there's something magical about players and a GM unfamiliar with a game. It's just you fuck around and find out until both groups figure things out.
System influences the GM. For me for 5e, the system is just... extremely unsatisfying. I read someone else saying it was soulless and that matched with me. I borrow some stuff from 5e, I like their healing system, but the parts just don't gel together for me.

3.5 had the issue of characters being unlikely to die and taking a long time to build, 4e is straight up Fantasy Superheroes, and 5e is effectively "if anyone permadies its because you are a shit player".
This just leads to less dramatic stories.

I also used to hate "skillless" systems or things that were like "you should be able to do anything a cleric can do", but I'm appreciating that approach as I encounter more and more "only played 5e" players and instead of skills being used to adjudicate probability, they use them as limiters on their imagination. "I investigate..... 16" instead of describing what they'd do to investigate.

How is the combat in Mothership? I like that ease-of-use in everything else about it but combat seems a bit underbaked in theory. I don’t know how fun it is in practice, though.
The combat is underbaked because you are supposed to be fighting horror movie villains and you aren't supposed to actually be able to kill them until act 3.
 
4e's power system in theory would make this trivial but while 4e is forgiving on stats, even if we assume ruling out incompatible powers for your class options, despite the fact everythings using the same math powers are often not even close to equal. So selection can be brutal especially when you start adding in the ancillary books.
4e assumes you min/max on a party level, so in some way it's even worse than 3.5, since you need to choose your powers to maximize party synergies.
 
4e assumes you min/max on a party level, so in some way it's even worse than 3.5, since you need to choose your powers to maximize party synergies.
True, but I guess since you get to swap a power & feat at every level, that happens more fluidly and requires the players to collaborate and discus. Vs. sitting around with the PHB and reddit/slackoverflow on their phones trying to make the most broken shit possible. I haven't seen a lot of "you should take this power because it'll let me do an extra 1d6" from the frontliner, and more the rear line saying "Do you have anything that hits extra hard with Combat Advantage? You should take that because I have something that will distract enemies."

Honestly I usually give my players free swaps on combat powers for the first few sessions. 4e is heavily encounter focused so if you aren't feeling effective that's going to mean you'll have a bad time.
 
I hate "just run 5e conversion for other games" is just the goto for so many.
There's a tweet I've not been able to find that summed it up perfectly. To paraphrase.
If DnD was a videogame, people would say "I want to play Half-Life", but instead of playing Half-Life, HL2, HL2 Ep1, HL2 Ep2, Portal, or HL Alyx. They instead mod Skyrim to replace all the drauger with Combine.
Then someone replies "but DnD is a framework to build anything", completely missing the point.

3.5 had the issue of characters being unlikely to die and taking a long time to build, 4e is straight up Fantasy Superheroes, and 5e is effectively "if anyone permadies its because you are a shit player".
This just leads to less dramatic stories.
I won't beat a dead horse, but I'm the opposite. I find meat grinders lead to less interesting stories, because how could you be interested in, say, LotR if every 10 minutes half the fellowship is replaced with new characters, and by the end none of the original characters are left. Or where they get a bunch of hirelings they send to do all the dirty work.

I forget what OSR game it was that had an elegant solution to the latter problem. Hirelings would never enter dungeons. Adventurers would, but they demand a cut of the loot and are DM controlled.

I also used to hate "skillless" systems or things that were like "you should be able to do anything a cleric can do", but I'm appreciating that approach as I encounter more and more "only played 5e" players and instead of skills being used to adjudicate probability, they use them as limiters on their imagination. "I investigate..... 16" instead of describing what they'd do to investigate.
Or the opposite problem, where someone wants to do something creative but there's no rules for that. eg. In one game there were giant walking candles (basically golems) and one player wanted to put a bucket on it's head to snuff out the flame. What skill is that? I quickly made up an athletics number and told them to roll. I don't really find it to be a 5e problem, but a crunchy games problem.

The far bigger problem is the nat-20 issue, where players expect nat 20 to basically be magic and grant whatever they want.
 
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Two that come to mind is Testament: Role-playing in the Biblical Era and Dogs in the Vinyard.

Though I'd also say they don't fit because one is based more on playing multiple near east peoples including the Israelites, and it's set in the BC period, so not really Christian. The latter's closer, but it'd only count if you count the LDS as Christian. I personally do not due to the Book of Mormon, but that's me.

I also remember Holy Lands: the Dark Age, and that thing was so goddamn dull that I legit bait-and-switched because it was that boring. It is written in such a way to solve insomnia.
That testament one sounds intriguing but not quite what I'm looking for. Something less mythical. Where the supernatural isn't something normal, which it seems like to be in this.

I don't consider LDS to be anything other than people perpetuating a 100+ year old scam.

Nonetheless, I thank you for your suggestions.

Black Lodge Games, check out their YT channel, and their latest release "Cults of Zahak" (sic?)

I'll look into them. From what little I have seen they make supplements for other games right?
What makes their games specifically christian?
Thanks to you as well for your suggestions.
 
I'll look into them. From what little I have seen they make supplements for other games right?
What makes their games specifically christian?
Thanks to you as well for your suggestions.
Cults of Zahak does use the Mythras system, yes. They are primarily world developers, but they delve into mechanics as well. The two creators are Christian, but the fictional environment I cited is polytheistic. Utilize that info as you wish. BLG frequently do Q and A livestreams and the nuances of their games, gaming environments and offline philosophies can be found there. It really doesn't summarize well in a sound bite or even a series of sound bites.
 
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