Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

Starting with a big picture overview of the rotation and breaking each section down into it's individual GCDs is way easier than going in reverse. There's a reason most people suggest looking up your rotation and it's not laziness, it's because it's way more efficient.
Nothing wrong with that. What most people have an issue with are the people who don't do that or don't want to do that and you watch them attack things with strength equal to a wet noodle.
And then when you tell them to practice or get better, they have a conniption and report you to daddy yoshi because yadda yadda yadda you don't pay their sub blah blah blah you know how it is.
 
Looking at a literal big picture of a rotation makes the different stages of your rotation immediately obvious.
No it doesn't. If you don't understand how those buttons fit together, you're essentially just following a flowchart, like I said, and I would assume this is where you run into a twofold issue with a lot of people who want to maximize uptime, no matter the situation (healers adjust), and the most common problem when it comes to logging parses, i.e., many people don't actually understand how to read their logs – all they know is "big number good, go up".
 
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This is retarded. Looking at a literal big picture of a rotation makes the different stages of your rotation immediately obvious. Opener, filler, odd minute burst, cooldown, even minute burst, repeat, etc. Take pic related, for example. Starting with a big picture overview of the rotation and breaking each section down into it's individual GCDs is way easier than going in reverse. There's a reason most people suggest looking up your rotation and it's not laziness, it's because it's way more efficient.
I really don't care if people are failing their rotation in most content though. As long as someone's always casting, avoids attacks and isn't doing a complete meme like ice mage I couldn't give less of a shit. I can't think of any jobs where the basics aren't obvious enough to get through a dungeon dealing adequate damage when DPS doesn't matter. The tooltips in this game are fine for casual content and more in-game tutorials won't help the retards that still fuck it up.

If people want to do harder content then they should ask better players, look up a rotation guide or (shocking) just experiment on Stone Sky Sea (then look up a guide afterwards, realise you got something backwards, and just follow the fucking guide). That's what I've done every time I want to learn a new rotation and it's gotten me through midcore content in different roles just fine.

The only real complaint I have about learning rotations is that synced dungeons force you to adjust your toolkit to different points as you level, but I don't know how to fix that. If you gave people their level 100 toolkit for a level 50 dungeon it'd have to be nerfed into the ground to compensate.
 
Understanding the why-s of the rotation helps you when you recover from a mistake.

But just looking at a rotation and memorizing it is probably more helpful overall - particularly since there have been cases (and will again be cases no doubt) like SHB summoner, which had to cancel its Dreadwyrm trance several GCDs early because not doing so would cause you to drive your burst out of the 2-minute buff window. If you had just tried to base it around the kit, you'd logically assume you wanted to get all of the GCDs in the stance window as possible... since, well, why else would it be that long?

Similarly, if you're using HF2/HB2 in BLM's AoE rotation, that's what it seems like you're supposed to do, and that's not really doing it wrong per-se - it's just a giant drop in damage potential versus just swapping between AF/UI for flare and freeze. So to say, if the job design team actually played their own game, I think there would be a stronger argument for logically piecing together every job's rotation out of an understanding of its components - but that just isn't a universe we live in.
 
hangover-calculations-gif-9.gif
Me, a casual player reading all this autistic shit.
Are...are we still talking about casual players?
 
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Quick Bard question: does it matter which song gets played in what order or is it just YOLO them all during Burst windows depending on the fight?
 
I can't put the blame entirely on the game. They have ways for people to learn and get better. Players can't expect to have every little thing handed to them on a platter.
True, it isn't entirely the games fault, But the game is very wishywashy with the traits unlocking. A trait can either just be like a 10-20 potency bump.
or it can fundamentally restructure a classes rotation and change an action, despite it still being a generic named "Mastery" trait.

Its a combination of tooltips changing as you level, and behaviours changing as you level restructuring the jobs.

It isn't so bad for old or returning players, but new players need to untangle things and have massive gaps in changes for each job, meaning multiple level points need muscle memory adjustments.
With there being ultimates at 50, I really believe every job should have a basic level of feature completeness at 50, and this can be reflected in the number of classes that clear ultimate teirs based on level tbh

I say it's a mixture of bad players and bad information.
Any retard can operate an Ipad because it's intuitive.
ff14 class feature progression is not, so retards cant operate it at even a basic level, on top of some jobs just being fundamentaly worse or not even getting similiar actions to other jobs with 30-40 level differences. (Early AoE's being a good example of that, some get AoE's at like level 10, others not until 45)

Tbh it'd easily be solved if they squished the basic 1-2-3 combo into all being level 1 unlocks and building from there.
(because yeah, sure some jobs totally need a 20-30 level difference to finish a 1-2-3)
 
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Quick Bard question: does it matter which song gets played in what order or is it just YOLO them all during Burst windows depending on the fight?
Bear in mind my knowledge comes from Endwalker but I assume they didnt really change the job beyond giving it a shiny new capstone on top of apex arrows. (From a glance on the job guide, they really did just add an additional finisher for barrage lol).

Traditionally, your best burst comes from Wanderer's Minuete, where you get to launch pitch perfect arrows along with whatever oGCD you proc'd. So usually I'd start with that assuming everyone pushes their buff first. Else you just try and align that song with the buff window.

Ideally you want to sync your coda with burst windows so as to stack buffs, but that should come naturally since you would clip the last 15s of Paeon to fit into the 2minute burst meta anyway.

Tbh it';d easily be solved if they squished the basic 1-2-3 combo into all being level 1 unlocks and building from there.
(because yeah, sure some jobs totally need a 20-30 level difference to finish a 1-2-3)
The game's long overdue for a level squish and fundamental rework on how abilities are unlocked and not just because they had to stat squish multiple times just to keep the frankenstein engine from shitting itself due to massive numbers.
 
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Outdated guide. Samurai doesn't use Hakegure outside of downtime realignments anymore. Also that doesn't say Tendo anywhere.
Not relevant to the point I was making, it's just an example.

just experiment on Stone Sky Sea (then look up a guide afterwards, realise you got something backwards, and just follow the fucking guide). That's what I've done every time I want to learn a new rotation and it's gotten me through midcore content in different roles just fine.
Same, I got more than half way through DSR on SAM (first end-game content I ran with SAM) by following a guide, getting familiar with the rotation, and making adjustments on the fly when it came to boss disengages, phase changes, etc. Rotations in this game aren't so autistically complex that you need to know the ins-and-outs of every ability to be competent.

No it doesn't. If you don't understand how those buttons fit together, you're essentially just following a flowchart, like I said, and I would assume this is where you run into a twofold issue with a lot of people who want to maximize uptime, no matter the situation (healers adjust), and the most common problem when it comes to logging parses, i.e., many people don't actually understand how to read their logs – all they know is "big number good, go up".
So you've moved the goalposts from casual players just learning their rotation to people parsing :story:
See above: Rotations in this game aren't so autistically complex that you need to know the ins-and-outs of every ability to be competent.
 
So you've moved the goalposts from casual players just learning their rotation to people parsing :story:
See above: Rotations in this game aren't so autistically complex that you need to know the ins-and-outs of every ability to be competent.
First, I gave two examples of situations in which people don't actually learn how their Job plays just by following a rotation guide and stubbornly fall into really dumb habits that end up detrimental to their playstyle specifically because they blindly follow a rotation guide without accounting for adjustments.

Second, why even bring up your DSR progression if this is just about casual players learning their rotations? It's almost like following a rotation guide is inherently conducive to non-casual play.
 
Calling it now: Meracydia will be fantasy Wakanda and the first thing you'd be greeted with when you step off the boat is nigger rap. Tiamat will be an honorary nigger and suddenly speak of reparations from Eorzeans for killing her husband and dragon slavery.
if I don't get my australia with dragons I will riot.
 
(Early AoE's being a good example of that, some get AoE's at like level 10, others not until 45)
Tanks: 10
Black Mage (Ice 2): 12
Red Mage (Scatter): 15
Ranged DPS, Black Mage (Fire 2), Red Mage (Verthunder 2): 18
Red Mage (Veraero 2): 22
Pictomancer, Reaper, Viper: 25
Summoner, Black Mage (Thunder 2), Monk (Arm of the Destroyer), Samurai: 26
Monk (Rockbreaker): 30
Reaper (Whorl of Death): 35
Ninja: 38
Dragoon: 40
White Mage, Astrologian, Monk (Four-point Fury): 45
Scholar, Sage: 46
Red Mage (Moulinet): 52
 
Second, why even bring up your DSR progression if this is just about casual players learning their rotations? It's almost like following a rotation guide is inherently conducive to non-casual play.
My point was it's the fastest way to start playing the class. Getting experience hitting dummies and running normal raids is the most important part of learning a class and the guides get you there faster.

Also, the "deep understanding" isn't learned from reading the tooltips like you think it is. Stuff like the heals from Bloodwhetting auto-crit while you're under effects that make your attacks auto-crit. That shit is learned from looking up your class online.

Reading tooltips and looking at a guide are just two methods of getting basic competency, they're nothing more or less than the first step in learning your job. Its just that the guides are way more efficient.
 
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Stuff like the heals from Bloodwhetting auto-crit while you're under effects that make your attacks auto-crit. That shit is learned from looking up your class online.
Only Primal Rend, (Primal Ruination?), Chaotic Cyclone, and Inner Chaos. It doesn't apply to Berserk/Inner Release guaranteed crit skills.

Also this information is basically useless outside of parse runs, ultimates, and solo content.
 
Only Primal Rend, (Primal Ruination?), Chaotic Cyclone, and Inner Chaos. It doesn't apply to Berserk/Inner Release guaranteed crit skills.

Also this information is basically useless outside of parse runs, ultimates, and solo content.


Point is you learn more about the game by looking stuff up and not just using the in-game resources.
 
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Point is you learn more about the game by looking stuff up and not just using the in-game resources.
Nigger, I am trying to avoid dragging out this circular argument any further because you, yourself, keep shifting your own goalposts around, but you can't use "We're talking about casual content!" and then circle back to "Muh guides are better and more efficient than everything!" every time someone tells you "Nobody really uses this information outside of non-casual content."
 
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No it doesn't. If you don't understand how those buttons fit together, you're essentially just following a flowchart, like I said, and I would assume this is where you run into a twofold issue with a lot of people who want to maximize uptime, no matter the situation (healers adjust), and the most common problem when it comes to logging parses, i.e., many people don't actually understand how to read their logs – all they know is "big number good, go up".
I was never able to perform at my best just trying to cold follow class/rotation guides.
When I was still playing, if a newish player to end-game of MMOs mentioned that they were ready to take their first baby steps out of super casual tier, my advice for them was to follow what I did for all the classes I cared about.
1. Get a roulette buddy to stick with you for several weeks
2. Make YoshiP cry and download ACT
3. Engage in friendly competition with your roulette buddy to try and beat each other (if both of you are DPS) or use them as an accountability partner to encourage you to keep getting better as you go
4. Mix up what you que as every once in a while to see how others perform in your role and compare your numbers to them
5. After you've got a good feeling for what works and pumps out decent numbers, THEN go get the flowchart/class guides and use them to see if there's anything you overlooked while naturally learning the class
6. Fix any mistakes you were making and practice in future roulettes
7. Get as much of your rotation as you can in muscle memory and set your UI up so you can see your cooldowns easily
8. Congratulations! You are now ready to stick your feet in savage or attempt the harder solo challenges. If you did steps 3-7 enough times you'll blow 95% of the population of the water at your gear level just from practice alone.

I've found the simple idea of having someone there to ensure you can't slack off even in casual content helps force the learning experiance along much better.
That said, this method is totally incompatible with most people who want results ASAP, but I think the results and feeling of comfort you'll have with your job will speak for themselves.
 
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