Marvel Cinematic Universe

Why Marvel refuses to recast there actually popular characters after their actors left I'll never understand. There have been 3 live action of Spider Man and 4 versions of The Fantastic Four are Christ sake.

I refuse to watch Wakanda Forever on principle. I thought it was gross how Disney used Chadwick Boseman's death to basically advertise the movie. I've heard the movie sucks balls anyway.

Boseman's family has publicly stated that Chadwick himself would have wanted Marvel to recast T'Challa, because he didn't want the kids to see Black Panther die.

Welp, Marvel definitely screwed that pooch.
 
Can I just take a moment to remember the first two Captain America movies?

The First Avenger is the most underrated and underappreciated MCU movie, in my opinion. I absolutely love it, and I legitimately think it's in the higher tier of Marvel movies. This movie (and Iron Man 1) are the beating heart of the MCU, if you ask me.

And as for The Winter Soldier ... My God, it's still great. Marvel is simply unable to make a movie like this ever again, and it's sad.
Winter Soldier showed how to properly use an aging former A lister. Robert Redford killed it in Winter Solider, and other than holding a gun he didn't do any stunts.
 
its crazy considering how conservative the writers in the 1960s were, they were literally pro-vietnam war.

what a retarded idea. wasn't he a mind controlled government assassin for an enemy of the US until only a few years ago at most? beyond that he's a white dude born in the 1920s, no one is voting for those types especially in an entire state. beyond that his politics regarding finances or abortion or other issues comics don't really go into is going to keep him from being elected. like Bucky has to be RDR 2 Dutch tier faggot to be a-ok with most social issues of the modern era, you really think Bucky's pro-trans and anti-pornban? how about his views on geopolitical rivals or free trade? you think Bucky is pro-hamas or pro-israel?

Meanwhile Ant rattles off his one liners like he thought of them off the top of his head in twisted metal.

you can tell the differences in writing and comfort level between this and twisted metal for him, if you read between the lines Ford really made the movie a miserable experience for everyone, which he's apparently rather fond of doing considering Shia literally gave up being "the next tom hanks" after being forced to work with ford on Indy 4.

you sure? this is an obvious "one and done" style role, wouldn't you prefer it being wasted on an asian instead of someone who might be a bigger deal later on?
I'd love to hear Bucky's policies on the economy.
 
I honestly can't see the movies continuing after secret wars and X-Men. They are not adapting stories properly, the writing is low quality and they are running out of star power. They need to slow down and pull a Lucas or something.



Why Marvel refuses to recast there actually popular characters after their actors left I'll never understand. There have been 3 live action of Spider Man and 4 versions of The Fantastic Four are Christ sake.
It's gotta be contract issues or some cheapskate bullshit.
I refuse to watch Wakanda Forever on principle. I thought it was gross how Disney used Chadwick Boseman's death to basically advertise the movie. I've heard the movie sucks balls anyway.

Boseman's family has publicly stated that Chadwick himself would have wanted Marvel to recast T'Challa, because he didn't want the kids to see Black Panther die.

Welp, Marvel definitely screwed that pooch.
Ugh. It was so unnecessary. Especially considering how the character has a full fledged death and funeral in what if.


Honestly, I would love an accurate, in-depth exploration of the political climate in the MCU.
I love that shit too. Political infrastructure and clashing Nation states are always interesting. Unfortunately Disney thinks their audience are idiots ( and let's face it, a great deal are) so your never going to get something good outside of a game or side story if you're lucky.
 
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Winter Soldier showed how to properly use an aging former A lister. Robert Redford killed it in Winter Solider, and other than holding a gun he didn't do any stunts.
I'd argue Michelle Pfeiffer too. Despite missing for most of the film, she is the emotional core of AMaTW. Also they didn't need to use that CGI technology to make her look younger like they did with Michael Douglas.

Redford loved the role so much that he returned for one scene in Endgame. Reminds me of Kelsey Grammer returning for Days of Future Past and The Marvels. He loves playing Beast.

Worst ones were probably Annette Benning in her nothing role in Captain Marvel, Mickey Rourke in Iron Man 2, and Glenn Close in GotG. I do know Glenn said she gets recognized for it and Cruella by kids the most, so blowing up her planet was a stupid move on the writers part. In a sense you can also say Julie Delpy, Ben Kingsley, Hiroyuki Sanada and Michelle Yeoh were all completely wasted as well.
 
Why Marvel refuses to recast there actually popular characters after their actors left I'll never understand
It doesn't work. It worked for phase one because the films weren't huge yet and fuckery like that was still common in the 2000s.

Avengers deliberately is written so you don't have to have seen the previous films to understand this one and it retcons some of the stuff in previous films so it hurts your viewing if you did bother watching the other films (which most did not)
Boseman's family has publicly stated that Chadwick himself would have wanted Marvel to recast T'Challa, because he didn't want the kids to see Black Panther die
The problem is who could they have cast, plus the optics would be rough, especially in a post Floyd era with the only big recasts being two black dudes and ed Norton.

Honestly, I would love an accurate, in-depth exploration of the political climate in the MCU.
You laugh but somehow Obama only got one term then replaced by the iron Man 3 president then trump than Ross if you accept the premise that the Netflix shows are canon. Trump also wins reelection in 2020. Which means in a way superheroes made the country a fuck load more conservative, I guess Obama era Democrats fucking with Tony Stark really led to them being destroyed in the 2012 election. It also makes sense when you realize Tony Stark is treated as a stand in for Republicans in the comics and acts like a mix between trump and musk and would spend his fortune to force the Democrats to get fucked over for treating him badly in iron Man 2 and why you stop hearing about government trying to demand he give up his tech.

Stark suddenly having an entire tower in NY despite being the embodiment of an LA Republican is sus as well. Also the city going to complete shit in the avengers and there being enough alien tech years later to make sure the vulture and his buddies can live good lifestyles is crazy too.

If you notice they don't focus too much on it but when they do, the world is fucked up by superheroes. Every other year some crazy shit happens. You know them mostly being white dudes saving the day would piss off libs too.

People forget the daily bugle is a play on the daily News which mr.objectivism and the WW2 vets of 1960s marvel despised with a passion. The lack of trans representation in the MCU even in extras also means there's a pretty big shot that the US is way more conservative the last 20 years than it is in our universe. You only have a couple gay background characters too, meaning it's probably socially closer to 2006 than the current year.

Wasn't ms.marvel bullied in school too? You really think that was allowed in schools past the bush era? Way less smartphone use as well besides as phones.
 
Well I watched it. Thoughts in no order:

  • The whole exposition dump at the beginning is unnecessary, they should have just cold opened on the plane.
  • It was a cool nod to see Sam reusing a lot of Steve's fight choreography. They also did a good job of marrying the Falcon gummicks with the Cap gimmicks, and exploring what can be done with both. In general the combat and action was pretty well done when they're suited up, though the civvy combat was pretty shit.
  • The score actually had some discernible melodies, which is something composers and academics have made fun of Marvel about for a long time, though it's weird that the Danny Elfman Batman leitmotif has become a catchall for capeshit. It also juxtaposes weirdly against the rap music, though I think that awkward rub actually does a good job of tonally representing Sam's role as housenigger mediator/peacekeeper, not really fitting into any of the worlds he occupies and coming off as patronizing.
  • I wonder if Giancarlo Esposito gets tired of playing Gus Fring
  • Ross was clearly written to be Trump but the performance feels so much like Biden that it's actually funny
  • Holy fuck the last couple years of politics could not have been worse for the people making this movie. Between assassinations, Israel falling out of favor, Trump getting reelected, USAID getting outed -- almost every thread and plot point has a real life equivalent that it brings to mind that played out very differently in real life and it serves as a reminder of how propagandistic it all is.
  • The mind control is so fucking stupid and lazy, especially when you have the Leader as an antagonist. This could have been written to be an actually intelligent political thriller with sophisticated manipulation of groups and individuals, but I guess just like everything else that would be too close to the truth and would go against the agenda.
  • The Manchurian candidate angle actually could have worked for Bradley since they make a point of mentioning that he was imprisoned and experimented on, AND they make a point of drawing the parallel to Bucky. It would have been a perfectly passable explanation that the Leader had figured out how to trigger Bradley if it was just him, but instead they made it the crux of everything.
  • The Leader being outplayed by a random chair force niggo is so god damned fucking stupid. I kept waiting for the reveal where everything Sam was doing was all according to keikaku and instead I got just a big steaming pile of horseshit. What a fucking waste.
  • They gutted Sabra so fucking hard that I didn't even realize it was her, I kept waiting for her to show up. I didn't catch a single reference to her being Israeli, unless you count her sizing up an American congressman and saying "I can work with that." Also aren't Widows supposed to be attractive, isn't that like a tool in their arsenal?
  • I'm sure they intended Rulk-Trump to be a villain but after the assassination attempts and political assassination attempts and criminal accusations and collusion and conspiracy and corruption there's a 0% chance the right wouldn't take it as a vindication, if they saw the film that is. If you told me they tried to make him less like Trump so the wrong people don't root for him and enjoy themselves I'd believe you.
  • Another instance of that cowardly Joss Whedon thing where somebody (Bucky) says something serious and heartfelt and then they punctuate it with a shitty quip so you don't think too hard about it. I saw somebody point out that this is the Daily Show/Colbert Report formula -- tell the audience what to think and then make them laugh before they can question it -- and now I notice it everywhere. In this case I get what they're going for with Sam succeeding Steve with the idea being that America needs to be a more even tempered and diplomatic entity than it used to be -- I just disagree, and a Whedon quip won't change my mind.
  • Holy shit this movie must be impossible to get into as a standalone experience. Even if you can get past all the references to Steve and TFATWS and the larger universe, I can't imagine what goes through someone's mind when they're watching a relatively grounded action movie and then suddenly there's an island made of a dead god's head in the ocean. I've said it before but the MCU is starting to feel like the comics with the yellow boxes telling you what issues from another series you're supposed to read to understand what the fuck is going on and I am NOT here for it, this shit should be winks and nods unless it's a direct sequel or a crossover event, aka a movie with Avengers in the title. They've been talking for decades about the capeshit movie bubble bursting, well this is how it happens.
  • My god is it apparent that this has been reshot to hell. Had a lot of the same problems I've mentioned about Kraven and other Sony shit. Stop fucking adding/changing lines in ADR, it never helps, Ford showed us that in Blade Runner, just edit what you shot.
  • Everybody is talking about using Japan to avoid upsetting China, but they try so hard to avoid portraying Japan as doing anything wrong at all that I'd suspect China wouldn't have minded, assuming they'd even watch a movie with so many POCs as protagonists. I'm betting it was just a clumsy throughline for the cherry blossom thing.
  • Everybody talking about this movie wanting to be Winter Soldier is dead on though.
  • I actually do like the conflict being resolved by Sam talking Ross down, even if I disagree what it represents propagandistically.
  • The post credits stinger is, I'm guessing, a holdover from the Kangz thing, with "others" being in reference to other Earths/multiverse incursion shit, which I guess means they're still going to do that moving forward. Which isn't so much a surprise as a disappointment.
  • E: also how the fuck are we supposed to believe that they just let Sam walk into the bunker after his close personal friend and fucking +1 just tried to assassinate the president
tl;dr solid D tier as Marvel movies go, skip it and rewatch Winter Soldier instead. It didn't even make me want to lift or go shooting, which is all I really ask for from an action movie.

Everybody speculating on whether it loses money is gonna have to wait for the USAID receipts on this one.
 
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I love that shit too. Political infrastructure and clashing Nation states are always interesting. Unfortunately Disney thinks their audience are idiots ( and let's face it, a great deal are) so your never going to get something good outside of a game or side story if you're lucky.
Space Marvel is also lacking in Galaxy infrastructure. Thanks to superheroes, Earth is the Aghanistan of the galaxy, so Aliens would treat it as Arakis. Instead, they float and villnuder.it unused.
 
I wonder if Giancarlo Esposito gets tired of playing Gus Fring
he played super ghetto thugs up until that role, playing Gus is a lot better than playing crackheads.
but the performance feels so much like Biden that it's actually funny
thats because harrison acts like a politican and much like Biden you can feel the contempt even when he's trying to be a nice guy to the blacks around him. 0 sincerity.
Everybody speculating on whether it loses money
no need to speculate it 100% lost money. disney was lying out their fucking ass about it being $180 million, it needs roughly $450 m to "break even" but was expected to hit $800 m a month ago. by July we'll find out it actually was made for $350 million. just like how The Marvels was supposedly made for $170 million and then after it bombed at the box office they admitted it actually cost $345 million.
 
no need to speculate it 100% lost money. disney was lying out their fucking ass about it being $180 million, it needs roughly $450 m to "break even" but was expected to hit $800 m a month ago. by July we'll find out it actually was made for $350 million. just like how The Marvels was supposedly made for $170 million and then after it bombed at the box office they admitted it actually cost $345 million.
Yeah the joke is that it feels like the budget came from USAID rather than investors so they don't have to worry about making money back.
 
I'd argue Michelle Pfeiffer too. Despite missing for most of the film, she is the emotional core of AMaTW. Also they didn't need to use that CGI technology to make her look younger like they did with Michael Douglas.

Redford loved the role so much that he returned for one scene in Endgame. Reminds me of Kelsey Grammer returning for Days of Future Past and The Marvels. He loves playing Beast.

Worst ones were probably Annette Benning in her nothing role in Captain Marvel, Mickey Rourke in Iron Man 2, and Glenn Close in GotG. I do know Glenn said she gets recognized for it and Cruella by kids the most, so blowing up her planet was a stupid move on the writers part. In a sense you can also say Julie Delpy, Ben Kingsley, Hiroyuki Sanada and Michelle Yeoh were all completely wasted as well.
Respectful disagreement on just two points. The de-aging on Michael Douglas was during a flashback to his days as Antman. Unless they used it elsewhere and I missed it. So that's justified. And solely on Ben Kingsley I don't think he was wasted in that role because even though it was a minor one, you needed someone of his calibre to pull off what they wanted there. Playing a character is one thing, playing an actor playing a character is actually pretty hard. And Kingsley can do comedy pretty well too which the role also needed. (He was also a supporting role in Shang-Chi as well fwiw)

Wasn't ms.marvel bullied in school too? You really think that was allowed in schools past the bush era? Way less smartphone use as well besides as phones.
Not really. She has friends and is mainly left alone. In fact, it's very minor but it's one of my favourite things in the show that when she gets her powers and starts feeling more confident, she gets the guts to confront two of her "bullies" - a pair of girls who block her locker - and just say "excuse me" and they notice that she's there and let her by. I.e. the show explicitly shows that she wasn't being bullied, it was just her perspective. I love that little element of the show for being actually helpful to kids: she wasn't bullied, she just saw herself as a victim and then stopped doing so.

I know I go to bat for that show a lot but it's because I think people see the characters in it and think it's Woke DEI stuff when actually the show is the least Woke property in the franchise. Even Iron Man leans into the trope of "smart woman corrects dumb male" not infrequently. Given the show probably had one of the lowest budgets of all the MCU shows but one of the best responses from those who actually watched it, they should have green-lighted a Season 2.

Sadly as we've seen over and over, the studio has no confidence in their own products, being almost wholly led by pleasing people on Twitter. Number of reshoots for CA4 seems testament to that.
 
Also The Sentry/The Void is 100% the antagonist of Thunderbolts, no chance in hell Disney/Marvel gives us a literal Aryan ubermensch in 2025 without making him the bad guy, especially when they're trying so hard to replace their last Aryan ubermensch with a POC and turn the other one into a joke. Sucks that it's PG-13, I would love to see him go Homelander on the rest of the cast
 
Space Marvel is also lacking in Galaxy infrastructure. Thanks to superheroes, Earth is the Aghanistan of the galaxy, so Aliens would treat it as Arakis. Instead, they float and villnuder.it unused.
Holy crap did they badly mismanage the space aspect of marvel. If they were smart they would lean more into it and actually adapt some kickass arcs like annihilation or just play around more with the major powers. They completely screwed up the kree-skrull dynamics. Admittedly rights issues were involved early on, but come on. They could have made a half way decent retcon. Lot of missed opportunities to bring in heroes from that area. Should have been the arc between endgame and secret wars.
 
Also The Sentry/The Void
it actually sucks that they're using him like this. it would have made a neat anniversary miniseries for Disney+, literally adapt the first mini-series which treats sentry like the Marvel Forest Gump, and just splice him into everything, have him shoot new scenes with all the cast and boom instant "love letter to the fans" hit. Of course they sort of did that already with endgame but they can always do it for the 20th anniversary or whenever.
the space aspect of marvel.
people don't seem to realize how much it costs to do space bullshit. GOTG 2 mostly takes place on one planet and two different star ships which had both sets already made, and it still cost $200 million. you can't really do any of it cheaply, so it has to be a billion dollar hit. because of the modern film economy, in general its retarded to do blockbusters now. there's a reason you aren't seeing many movies with budgets beyond $125 million outside of kids animated films anymore, the ROI is shit.

On the flip side movies with a $100 million budget are so fucking cheap looking nowadays as well, the latest beetlejuice film looks so small and pathetic its insane, your average HBO show a dozen years ago had better production quality. bad boys 4 looks like it has the same budget as the original. plus when you combine the cost of streaming it doesn't make sense to spend a months' worth of streaming on a 2hr film that will be on the same streaming site a month later.

the costs of film making have exploded so much that shit that would have been midbudget films 20 years ago like the upcoming Mickey 17 are the new "blockbusters" today. like remember Push from 2009? it was a superhero film starring Chris Evans and Dakota Fanning in one of her big last roles, it was made for $40 million, which is roughly $160 million today.
 
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