Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

It looks like this whole thread is going through the stages of grief already

I'm feeling pretty optimistic about Trump.

Oh well, this all furthers my point that Trump, being the one who screwed Kabul and the Syrian Kurds, is just continuing his perfidiousness:

Trump was the one who made the deal to withdrawal from all US-held well-secured military bases with the Taliban last year; he even wanted the shorter deadline of May, rather than the end of August; see my post two pages ago. This is the same guy who withdrew US special forces from Kurdish-held parts of Northern Syria, supposedly 'to send the boys home' (and thus allowed Turkey and its Islamist Syrian rebel proxies to take over large chunks of Kurdish Syria), and yet at the same time had more US troops stationed to Saudi Arabia instead (to sabre rattle with Iran).

 

[Brain Problems]

Has anything changed materially or am I missing something outside of Trump doing what he always does which is running his mouth on Twitter/Truth/press conferences? Obviously it isn't a good look when Orange Man starts literally echoing basic bitch vatnigger talking points but even the level of bellicosity is new compared to previous flirtations. Wonder what game is being played here if any.

Did Z-man forget to call him on his birthday? Quick, there's still time to play a fast 18 at Mar-a-Lago!

 

[Combustion Engine]

This sort of histrionic chaos and confusion is the part and parcel of Zion Don's admin. Don't read too much into every single bit of idiocy and falsehood they spew at every opportunity.

The EU can keep funding Ukraine until Russia falls

Not without bankrupting itself against that zerg rush, if even that, which would be just fine for the US either way: just like how two world wars left the mainland unscathed, this too would have little impact on it, might even be the point of it. Anyone believing Europe will get their shit together is far too optimistic, the entire system is compromised and corrupted, ready to crumble apart if someone pulls some strings from overseas. There's an entire doctrine about not allowing anyone to be or get in a position to challenge them.

Moral of the story: keep your nukes.

And if you don't have them, haul ass. That Iran doesn't have any despite Israel's bitching since 1980s that they will within a few years is simply embarrassing. Strike the belly of the beast.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

On one hand I understand Trump. Ukraine is utterly irrelevant to the US. It has no of value to offer to the US and costs a lot to keep going.

Except that it's proven itself an otherwise capable doorstop to Russian westward expansion.
Ukraine is *kind of* our problem, because it CAN (if properly supplied) stop one of our top 3 major geopolitical rivals (and I would argue both economic and civilizational enemy); Ukraine is a minor inconvenience that has at this point a track record of cock-blocking America's enemy Russia from becoming a much bigger problem.

Sending all the hardware to get blown up in Ukraine isnt the best idea at the moment.

Problem is we've been sending small fractions of last-generation shit, a good portion of which was reaching the end of its service life and we'd need to pay to decommission anyways.

Bradleys are also of limited use in a hypothetical Air-Sea-Cyberspace war for the Pacific anyways.

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Oh well, this all furthers my point that Trump, being the one who screwed Kabul and the Syrian Kurds, is just continuing his perfidiousness:

Difference is I actively don't like the kurds, don't see them as relevant to American interests, and would laugh if Turkey made all the rainbow flag gurl power (yet also somehow still muslim?) Rojava-hoes into harem bitches.

When Trump throughs white Christian based Azov cryptobros want nothing more than to 1) survive as a nation 2) be on America's team under the bus, then yeah I'm going to have a negative opinion on it.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Sending all the hardware to get blown up in Ukraine isnt the best idea at the moment.

"If you kill your enemies, they win."

 

[Frederica Bernkastel]

Agreed. There were posters here trying to argue that Trump wouldn't be awful for Ukraine's future, as though this wasn't going to happen.

I mean, Ukraine has been struggling on the battlefield for quite some time. The failure of their 2023 offensive and trickling of aid from NATO did not help. Ukraine's failures on the battlefield are largely why it's in this mess today. Europe talks big rhetoric about freedom and democracy, but they're not sending troops there to fight.

she'd just continue Biden's policy of funding Ukraine until Russia falls because it's the "correct" thing to do;

The aid wasn't really enough. The US has been treating this conflict as a way to bleed out Russia, and not necessarily let Ukraine win.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Did Z-man forget to call him on his birthday?

Perhaps he was mislead on how good a Big Mac in Ukraine is:

Perhaps he is hankering for a VatnikBurger instead.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Not without bankrupting itself against that zerg rush, if even that, which would be just fine for the US either way: just like how two world wars left the mainland unscathed, this too would have little impact on it, might even be the point of it. Anyone believing Europe will get their shit together is far too optimistic, the entire system is compromised and corrupted, ready to crumble apart if someone pulls some strings from overseas. There's an entire doctrine about not allowing anyone to be or get in a position to challenge them.

Russia will go bankrupt first, especially since its economy isn't bigger than fucking California. They can outspend the Russians, the only thing the Russians have over them is numbers, and in that case, it'd be a repeat of WW1.

Oh well, this all furthers my point that Trump, being the one who screwed Kabul and the Syrian Kurds, is just continuing his perfidiousness:

I'm not that surprised. Dude did nothing but screw over our allies in Iraq, so this is just an extension of that policy. He abandoned Ukraine faster than Biden abandoned Afghanistan.

The aid wasn't really enough. The US has been treating this conflict as a way to bleed out Russia, and not necessarily let Ukraine win.

And it was working. Russia got so bad that they started leaning on China and NORTH KOREA for help.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

"If you kill your enemies, they win."

Trudeauist-MAGA Horseshoe Theory

 

[Brain Problems]

Perhaps he was mislead on how good a Big Mac in Ukraine is:

Perhaps he is hankering for a VatnikBurger instead.

Can see the Tucker Carlson big brains looking at this and shaking their heads. "Even during a so-called WAR that THEY CLAIM is terrorising their people... they still manage to make a burger better than America? Come on folks, what are we doing bankrolling this disaster?"

Related but a friend went to Moscow years ago and said you could get a gross caviar or something burger version at the McDonalds there. Unsure if it was true or not but if it was bullshit I still believe it.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

I remember Ukraine aid used to be bipartisan until house Republicans decided to make it partisan, notibly Mike Johnson who knowingly took "donations" from Russian companies.

 

[World in Scarlet]

UAZ-469/3151 or Hunter Chassis with a Desertcross 1000-3 UTV Body, apparently held together with wire

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ID by link

Russian BMP-1 with the roof of the troop compartment cut off and a machine gun installed in place of the turret.

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Whatever this is.

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Russian logistics cat.

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It's clear:
NATO has no chance of defeating this and imposing its will on the Russians, the only option is unconditional surrender by the United States on behalf of all parties and accepting every Russian demand.

 

[yydszmiteg2]

gross caviar or something burger version at the McDonalds there. Unsure if it was true or not but if it was bullshit I still believe it.

That sounds like Russia to me. Insane tasteless displays of conspicuous consumption to pretend you've "made it" even when you're still standing in a McDonald's.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I remember Ukraine aid used to be bipartisan until house Republicans decided to make it partisan, notibly Mike Johnson who knowingly took "donations" from Russian companies.

Exactly. And it was the Trump Republicans who made it a partisan issue. So at this point, Trump abandoning Ukraine was a certainty.

 

[Dead Lion]

Except that it's proven itself an otherwise capable doorstop to Russian westward expansion.
Ukraine is *kind of* our problem, because it CAN (if properly supplied) stop one of our top 3 major geopolitical rivals (and I would argue both economic and civilizational enemy); Ukraine is a minor inconvenience that has at this point a track record of cock-blocking America's enemy Russia from becoming a much bigger problem.

Not really because Belarus exists. If Putin wanted to attack Poland he could just go through his most loyal Puppet. In fact he has no problem dropping Muslims of varied origin there to bother the Polish border guard. If Russia attacked Poland instead of Ukraine in 2022 i doubt Ukraine would've lifted a finger.

Problem is we've been sending small fractions of last-generation shit, a good portion of which was reaching the end of its service life and we'd need to pay to decommission anyways.

Bradleys are also of limited use in a hypothetical Air-Sea-Cyberspace war for the Pacific anyways.

I was referring more to Europe, who has been sending fancy new toys there like the Leopard.

"If you kill your enemies, they win."

If you send a pice of very expensive military equipment to destroy some ancient Russian equipment and a couple ivans before dying you lose in the end. Especially when your army is starving for equipment like in most EU countries.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

If you send a pice of very expensive military equipment to destroy some ancient Russian equipment and a couple ivans before dying you lose in the end.

They are using "ancient Russian equipment" because the West gave Ukraine enough Cold War scraps to completely ACK their Soviet stockpile legacy.

 

[World in Scarlet]

If you send a pice of very expensive military equipment to destroy some ancient Russian equipment and a couple ivans before dying you loose in the end. Especially when your army is starving for equipment like in most EU countries.

It's destroying modern (as in, the kind of stuff the Russian army normally uses) Russian equipment at a favourable ratio, and its only purpose for existing is to destroy Russian equipment. Not destroying it now means it would have to be destroyed later when it invades EU and NATO countries.
Shipping it to Ukraine now also lights a fire under politicians asses and forces them to actually procure things instead of pointing to on paper stockpiles of old crap.
This also ignores that a lot of what is being sent is ammunition and artillery, which led to large and continuing expansions of the production capacity of these things.

 

[SuperGun]

This is fucking incredible. Every single second im start to thinking more and more about Trump being Putin bitch.

I understand that he wanted to end the war, everyone does, mind you. But just letting Ukraine fuck themself and leave them alone with no concessions or even being part of the negotiation table is wild.

What is worst, America could benefit of this (like always does since WW2) upgrading their weapons manufacturing facilities and letting Ukraine being the guinea pig for their new weapons ala Spain in the Civil War in 1936.

If Trump let Russia take whatever the fuck they wants from Ukraine (and even more since we know the mindset of Putin) Pax Americana is fucking dead then.

And let not think about Europe. They got fucked thinking USA would still "protect them" Now Europe need to pull up theirs pants and be less dependent of USA, but i see that kinda unlikeky.

 

[World in Scarlet]

And let not think about Europe.

East Asia is also watching and noting that the US protection is nonexistent when push comes to shove, that Russian psyops brought the US to its knees and that China can probably do the same.

 

[ReasonablyRetarded]

Not surprised in the least but I had a grain of hope somewhere in me that the fat bloviating retard would have someone tug at his sleeve and point out the obvious.
The main thing is, even if this all turns out to be talk, the fact that this was ever on the table already proves that the US's word & fancy little memorandums mean as much as that of the Russians.
If I was Taiwanese I'd be shitting bricks right about now.

Quite frankly I can't be only upset at the US leadership with this though, the EU has just as much if not more blame too.
And I say this as a European.
Yeah, a lot of European countries have done quite a bit, but those are typically all the small countries.
They do all they can and percentage wise it's impressive but the quantity is just not there.
The big fish that actually fucking matter fed stuff into Ukraine at a trickle, starting with the terror-machine that is the German bureaucracy back when leopards were a hot topic.

I just HOPE that Zion Don acting the way he does slaps the mule that is the EU on the ass enough for it to FINALLY kick off the burden of overly time consuming bureaucracy & dependence on the US, both militarily & economically, which is something I've been hoping for for years upon years.