UK The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US? - By George Monbiot - AgitatedGerbil is this you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/27/britain-defend-itself-us-military

https://archive.ph/RDOJR

The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US?
George Monbiot

So much of our intelligence and military systems are shared or reliant on the US – if it becomes the enemy, it is already inside the gates
Thu 27 Feb 2025 09.00 CET

All the talk now is of how we might defend ourselves without the US. But almost everyone with a voice in public life appears to be avoiding a much bigger and more troubling question: how we might defend ourselves against the US.

As Keir Starmer visits the orange emperor’s court in Washington, let’s first consider the possibilities. I can’t comment on their likelihood, and I fervently hope that people with more knowledge and power than me are gaming them. One is that Donald Trump will not only clear the path for Vladimir Putin in Ukraine, but will actively assist him. We know that Trump can brook no challenge to his hegemony. Russia is no threat to US dominance, but Europe, with a combined economy similar to that of the US, and a powerful diplomatic and global political presence, could be.

Putin has long sought to break up the EU, using the European far right as his proxies: this is why he invested so heavily in Brexit. Now Trump, in turn, could use Putin as his proxy, to attack a rival centre of power. If Trump helps Russia sweep through Ukraine, Putin could then issue an ultimatum to other frontline and eastern European states: leave the EU, leave Nato and become a client state like Belarus, or you’re next.

In Hungary, Viktor Orbán might agree to this. If Călin Georgescu wins in Romania in May, he might too.
What form could US support for Putin in Ukraine take? It could involve intelligence sharing. It could involve permanently withdrawing Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite internet service from Ukraine, which is strategically crucial there, while making it available to the Russian armed forces. Already, the US government has threatened to nix the service if Ukraine doesn’t hand over its minerals, as reparations for being invaded. This is how Trump operates: blackmailing desperate people who are seeking to defend themselves against an imperial war, regardless of past alliances. In the extreme case, Trump’s support for Russia might involve military equipment and financial backing, or even joint US-Russian operations, in the Arctic or elsewhere.

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s director of national intelligence, in charge of the CIA, NSA and 16 other agencies. After she recited conspiracy fictions seeded by the Syrian and Russian governments, she was widely accused of being a “Russian asset” or a “Russian puppet”. At what point do we conclude that by sharing intelligence with the US, the UK might as well be sharing it with Russia?

Depending on whose definitions you accept, the US has either 11 or 13 military bases and listening stations in the UK. They include the misnamed RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, actually a US air force base, from which it deploys F-35 jets; RAF Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire, in reality a US NSA base conducting military espionage and operational support; RAF Croughton, part-operated by the CIA, which allegedly used the base to spy on Angela Merkel among many others; and RAF Fylingdales, part of the US Space Surveillance Network. If the US now sides with Russia against the UK and Europe, these could just as well be Russian bases and listening stations.
Then we come to our weapon systems. Like everyone without security clearance, I can make no well-informed statement on the extent to which any of them, nuclear or conventional, are operationally independent of the US. But I know, to give just one example, that among the crucial components of our defence are F-35 stealth jets, designed and patented in the US. How stealthy they will turn out to be, when the US has the specs, the serial numbers and the software, is a question that needs an urgent answer.

Nor can I make any confident statement about the extent to which weapons designed here might be dependent on US central processing units and other digital technologies, or on US systems such as Starlink, owned by Musk, or GPS, owned by the US Space Force. Which of our weapons systems could achieve battle-readiness without US involvement and consent? Which could be remotely disabled by the US military? At the very least, the US will know better than any other power how to combat them, because our weapons are more or less the same as theirs. In other words, if the US is now our enemy, the enemy is inside the gate.

Much as I hate to admit it, the UK needs to rearm (though cutting the aid budget to find the money, as Keir Starmer intends, is astonishingly shortsighted). I reluctantly came to this conclusion as Trump’s numbers began to stack up last July. But, if they are fatally compromised by US penetration, rearmament might have to begin with the complete abandonment of our existing weapons and communications systems.

This may need to start very soon. On 24 February, the UN general assembly voted on a Ukrainian resolution, co-sponsored by the UK and other European nations, condemning Russia’s invasion. Unsurprisingly, Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Hungary and several small and easily cowed states voted against it. But so did the US and Israel. This, more clearly than any other shift, exposes the new alignment. An axis of autocracy, facilitating an imperial war of aggression, confronts nations committed (albeit to varying degrees) to democracy and international law.
For many years, we have been urged to trust the UK’s oppressive “security state”. Yes, this security state is yanked around like a fish on a line by the US government, with such catastrophic outcomes as the US-UK invasion of Iraq. Yes, it is engaged in mass surveillance of its own citizens. But, its defenders have long argued, we should suck all this up because the security state is essential to our defence from hostile foreign actors. In reality, our entanglement, as many of us have long warned, presents a major threat to national security. By tying our defence so closely to the US, our governments have created an insecurity state.

I hope you can now see what a terrible mistake the UK has made, and how we should have followed France in creating more independent military and security systems. Disentangling from the US will be difficult and expensive. Failing to do so could carry a far higher price.

George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist faggot
 
Well. Britain basically has no military to speak of anymore. I don't think they could successfully defend the country against an invasion from France or even Ireland.

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government.

Well. Considering which way most of that information flows (hint - its not to the US), I wouldn't consider Five Eyes a vulnerability. Its perhaps the only thing that keeps your intelligence services functioning.

Its also worth a mention that this supporter of British re-armament and defending Britian is an outspoken supporter of full Scottish independence, full Welsh Independence and the annexation of northern ireland to Ireland.

George Monbiot

- Oxford Graduate in Zoology. Known for years as a "media tart" in Britain for his constant camera mugging at protest events.

- Wrote alot of "peak oil" hysteria right before the fracking boom in oil production. Predicted global oil production would peak in 2004.

- Attempted a citizens arrest of John Bolton for war crimes in 2008.
 
Much as I hate to admit it, the UK needs to rearm (though cutting the aid budget to find the money, as Keir Starmer intends, is astonishingly shortsighted).
"Do this really expensive, difficult thing but for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT take money away from the keeping niggers compliant fund to do it!!! You can just take loans from the financial system!"

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s director of national intelligence, in charge of the CIA, NSA and 16 other agencies. After she recited conspiracy fictions seeded by the Syrian and Russian governments, she was widely accused of being a “Russian asset” or a “Russian puppet”. At what point do we conclude that by sharing intelligence with the US, the UK might as well be sharing it with Russia?

Incredible hand that feeds biting. Five Eyes is one of the most nefarious, expansive and tyrannical intelligence systems in the world. I can feel the absolute seethe as they know in their hearts that it will never be "4 eyes"
how we should have followed France in creating more independent military and security systems.

When the party is over and the sun rises, we swear we will never drink again
 
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If we're doing bad acid paranoid freak out time, why not up the ante and say Russia and America invade bongland together?

It doesn't matter either way, because your country is essentially a bureaucratic black hole propped up by arbitrage and money laundering at the expense of the entire rest if the population. You have no capacity to fight for yourself and your system is too inert and disconnected from reality to build that capacity. The Russians, Americans, or Chinese would roll you in a week and probably govern the place better to boot.
 
Fun facts about Britain's "Military":

Lowest number of men in the service since the aftermath and demobilization in the Napoleonic wars (73 thousand today vs. 72 thousand in 1823)

The Royal Navy, once the Queen of the Seas who had a policy of being able to fight the number 2 and number 3 navies at once, currently has more admirals than warships.

The last time one of their precious few nuclear subs tried to fire a SLBM it misfired and crashed a few dozen feet from it. It also misfired the time before that, flying the wrong way towards Florida instead of it's designated target off the coast of Africa. The last time a Trident launch went O.K. was in 2012.

The British Army currently has more horses than it does Main Battle Tanks (Around 240 tanks to about 500 horses)

The UK owns 2 Aircraft Carriers, which is pretty nice and the Queen Elizabeth class is quite decent and modern. However, they do not have enough aircraft to operate both at full capacity.

If we're doing bad acid paranoid freak out time, why not up the ante and say Russia and America invade bongland together?

I think I saw that book once. It looked pretty fucking insane. (It was some Alternate-History crack fueled insanity about Britain trying to support the Confederacy, fucking up, and the USA and Tsarist Russia teaming up to destroy them)
 
"Do this really expensive, difficult thing but for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT take money away from keeping niggers compliant to do it!!! You can just take loans from the financial system!"

That game is playing out all over Europe. The game is to get everyone to agree to deeper government deficit spending in the same of re-arming. But what they are really going to do is use the legal changes to say that military deficit spending should not count in terms of legal limits on deficit spending. And with military spending removed from the debt caps, they will increase non-military spending. And in the end likely not increase military spending at all either.

There is a strong belief in Europe right now that increased government spending, printing money and inflation is the solution to all of Europe's economic problems. Even Germany has bought into this now. But there will be legal and public resistance to the police if done openly. So its being done in the name of saving Ukraine and defending Europe against Trump.
 
The UK owns 2 Aircraft Carriers, which is pretty nice and the Queen Elizabeth class is quite decent and modern. However, they do not have enough aircraft to operate both at full capacity.
They also gimped at least the first one by dicking around too long with if they wanted F-35 B or C and so QE almost became a giant helicopter carrier. This alone is a shocking display of how inept the MoD is.

How this whole thing would play out if done showily, i.e. Trump Style:

B-2 with a rotarty dispenser flies over. Big Ben eats the first 2000 pounder, then just walk the stick along Parliament, then the last one craters that fancy MI5 HQ. No real decap attacks on MoD or #10, at least until the SLBM threat is neutralized.

The thing is what I think would happen then: That afternoon I think you would see the SNP go opportunist, do a UDI and ask for EU protection. "Not our war!" Then chaos. I don't think you'd have effective resistance to a ground invasion, everyone would be busy trying to sell out to someone.

But this is all silly? Why would we? Like even if the friendship of the past hundred years is discarded, what's the fucking upside?
 
We're reaching levels of delusion here that shouldn't be possible even with perfect laboratory conditions.



It's equal parts hilarious and distressing that they think they can just flip a switch and be back to a 80's standard of defense overnight.

Unwilling or unable to see that 40 years of dismantling their industry and demoralizing their citizens means it'll take just as long to bring it all back.


If not longer, because they also have millions of freeloaders to clear out on top of the same damage from globalization and right-side-of-history thinking that has visited every Western Nation since the 90's.
I mean by the 60s shit was dire, Britain was broke and this was reflected in the most down-to-earth movies of the time (IPCRESS File a big example). Then by the 80s? lol.
 
I mean by the 60s shit was dire, Britain was broke and this was reflected in the most down-to-earth movies of the time (IPCRESS File a big example). Then by the 80s? lol.
Then you had the 'military coup handing the country to the crown' plan not long after, which only got derailed when (((Baron Zuckerman))) reminded Lord Mountbatten that it would technically be treason.
 
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It wouldn't even be a war. The US would essentially be having to tardwrangle our mean dementia addled grandpa if we intervened in UK affairs.

All it will take is a slap to get Grandpa UK to move into the shower and we'll have to wash the plastered shitskin off him.

The UK needs to sort their shit out instead of fear mongering about Trump and Putin. I feel sorry for anyone who has Starmer as their PM and Charles as their king.
 
The Royal Navy, once the Queen of the Seas who had a policy of being able to fight the number 2 and number 3 navies at once, currently has more admirals than warships.

The last time one of their precious few nuclear subs tried to fire a SLBM it misfired and crashed a few dozen feet from it. It also misfired the time before that, flying the wrong way towards Florida instead of it's designated target off the coast of Africa. The last time a Trident launch went O.K. was in 2012.
What were thinking!?!
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