UK The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US? - By George Monbiot - AgitatedGerbil is this you?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/27/britain-defend-itself-us-military

https://archive.ph/RDOJR

The question no one dares ask: what if Britain has to defend itself from the US?
George Monbiot

So much of our intelligence and military systems are shared or reliant on the US – if it becomes the enemy, it is already inside the gates
Thu 27 Feb 2025 09.00 CET

All the talk now is of how we might defend ourselves without the US. But almost everyone with a voice in public life appears to be avoiding a much bigger and more troubling question: how we might defend ourselves against the US.

As Keir Starmer visits the orange emperor’s court in Washington, let’s first consider the possibilities. I can’t comment on their likelihood, and I fervently hope that people with more knowledge and power than me are gaming them. One is that Donald Trump will not only clear the path for Vladimir Putin in Ukraine, but will actively assist him. We know that Trump can brook no challenge to his hegemony. Russia is no threat to US dominance, but Europe, with a combined economy similar to that of the US, and a powerful diplomatic and global political presence, could be.

Putin has long sought to break up the EU, using the European far right as his proxies: this is why he invested so heavily in Brexit. Now Trump, in turn, could use Putin as his proxy, to attack a rival centre of power. If Trump helps Russia sweep through Ukraine, Putin could then issue an ultimatum to other frontline and eastern European states: leave the EU, leave Nato and become a client state like Belarus, or you’re next.

In Hungary, Viktor Orbán might agree to this. If Călin Georgescu wins in Romania in May, he might too.
What form could US support for Putin in Ukraine take? It could involve intelligence sharing. It could involve permanently withdrawing Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite internet service from Ukraine, which is strategically crucial there, while making it available to the Russian armed forces. Already, the US government has threatened to nix the service if Ukraine doesn’t hand over its minerals, as reparations for being invaded. This is how Trump operates: blackmailing desperate people who are seeking to defend themselves against an imperial war, regardless of past alliances. In the extreme case, Trump’s support for Russia might involve military equipment and financial backing, or even joint US-Russian operations, in the Arctic or elsewhere.

Now consider our vulnerabilities. Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s director of national intelligence, in charge of the CIA, NSA and 16 other agencies. After she recited conspiracy fictions seeded by the Syrian and Russian governments, she was widely accused of being a “Russian asset” or a “Russian puppet”. At what point do we conclude that by sharing intelligence with the US, the UK might as well be sharing it with Russia?

Depending on whose definitions you accept, the US has either 11 or 13 military bases and listening stations in the UK. They include the misnamed RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, actually a US air force base, from which it deploys F-35 jets; RAF Menwith Hill in North Yorkshire, in reality a US NSA base conducting military espionage and operational support; RAF Croughton, part-operated by the CIA, which allegedly used the base to spy on Angela Merkel among many others; and RAF Fylingdales, part of the US Space Surveillance Network. If the US now sides with Russia against the UK and Europe, these could just as well be Russian bases and listening stations.
Then we come to our weapon systems. Like everyone without security clearance, I can make no well-informed statement on the extent to which any of them, nuclear or conventional, are operationally independent of the US. But I know, to give just one example, that among the crucial components of our defence are F-35 stealth jets, designed and patented in the US. How stealthy they will turn out to be, when the US has the specs, the serial numbers and the software, is a question that needs an urgent answer.

Nor can I make any confident statement about the extent to which weapons designed here might be dependent on US central processing units and other digital technologies, or on US systems such as Starlink, owned by Musk, or GPS, owned by the US Space Force. Which of our weapons systems could achieve battle-readiness without US involvement and consent? Which could be remotely disabled by the US military? At the very least, the US will know better than any other power how to combat them, because our weapons are more or less the same as theirs. In other words, if the US is now our enemy, the enemy is inside the gate.

Much as I hate to admit it, the UK needs to rearm (though cutting the aid budget to find the money, as Keir Starmer intends, is astonishingly shortsighted). I reluctantly came to this conclusion as Trump’s numbers began to stack up last July. But, if they are fatally compromised by US penetration, rearmament might have to begin with the complete abandonment of our existing weapons and communications systems.

This may need to start very soon. On 24 February, the UN general assembly voted on a Ukrainian resolution, co-sponsored by the UK and other European nations, condemning Russia’s invasion. Unsurprisingly, Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Hungary and several small and easily cowed states voted against it. But so did the US and Israel. This, more clearly than any other shift, exposes the new alignment. An axis of autocracy, facilitating an imperial war of aggression, confronts nations committed (albeit to varying degrees) to democracy and international law.
For many years, we have been urged to trust the UK’s oppressive “security state”. Yes, this security state is yanked around like a fish on a line by the US government, with such catastrophic outcomes as the US-UK invasion of Iraq. Yes, it is engaged in mass surveillance of its own citizens. But, its defenders have long argued, we should suck all this up because the security state is essential to our defence from hostile foreign actors. In reality, our entanglement, as many of us have long warned, presents a major threat to national security. By tying our defence so closely to the US, our governments have created an insecurity state.

I hope you can now see what a terrible mistake the UK has made, and how we should have followed France in creating more independent military and security systems. Disentangling from the US will be difficult and expensive. Failing to do so could carry a far higher price.

George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist faggot
 
This is just so fucking ridiculous. We already have bases there, had them over 80 years. Also agree many UK people would support us, since under US occupation they would likely have more rights than they presently have as British subjects. If we then made the UK a US state they would have full Constitutional rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms, freedom of speech, etc.

Which would improve that place a lot. I have a cousin in Britain. He's half serb half bosnian, and he hates the pakis as much as he hates the English.
 
This is just so fucking ridiculous. We already have bases there, had them over 80 years. Also agree many UK people would support us, since under US occupation they would likely have more rights than they presently have as British subjects. If we then made the UK a US state they would have full Constitutional rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms, freedom of speech, etc.
Your Second Amendment won't let me own a tank or landmine my front lawn, it's shite. When I can legally purchase some white phosphorus to drop on that woman I despise three streets over, we can discuss again.

@Overwritten Tapes Your fucking slav migrant cousin needs to go the fuck back where he came from.
 
It also misfired the time before that, flying the wrong way towards Florida instead of it's designated target off the coast of Africa
Someone input 'target a bunch of violent niggers with guns' and the AI in the warhead went straight for Miami.

Extremely histrionic article considering the UK hasn't been targeted as heavily as Canada or Mexico and neither of those countries are talking about 'disentangling' from the US defense network.
 
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Your Second Amendment won't let me own a tank
You can own a tank in the US, actually, although thanks to the ever loved NFA you do have to register it as a Destructive Device if you want to fire ammo from it, although unlike other guns if you an afford to own a tank you can certainly afford to do the paperwork for it.
 
Well. Britain basically has no military to speak of anymore. I don't think they could successfully defend the country against an invasion from France or even Ireland.
I'm fairly certain a well motivated troop of boy scouts could take over England at this point.
 
I'm fairly certain a well motivated troop of boy scouts could take over England at this point.
The UK has little in the way of actual combat troops, between the British Army and the Royal Marines. Not everyone in the UK Land Forces is a member of the combat arms, going to have a lot of people in support jobs.



Let's look at the UK's Army Reserve. Not too many.



Too many cutbacks due to money, folks. The UK, as always, has the heart of a fighter, but hasn't or doesn't want to expend the resources to field much of a land force.
 
You can own a tank in the US, actually, although thanks to the ever loved NFA you do have to register it as a Destructive Device if you want to fire ammo from it, although unlike other guns if you an afford to own a tank you can certainly afford to do the paperwork for it.
And if all you want is a tank to drive around? And have as a curiosity? You can de-mil the barrel, dismount the machine guns, and, as long as you obey traffic laws? Drive it wherever you want without having to register it as anything other than "wide load".

For those who've done the paperwork? There's also no law that says you can't let others shoot it with your permission...

There's a place in Texas with a Sherman tank that has a live 76 mil main gun and .50 cal mounted that you can shoot as long as you pay for the ammo.

Military vehicles without guns can be bought at auction and licensed and driven around too, as long as you can afford the upkeep.
 
Almost certainly. After WW1 the U.S. had war plan red. (gas them all and let god sort them out) Canada had defense scheme no.1. (flail around like a sped and hope daddy can save them) And the U.K. (no name, the plan was basically the same one japan tried just in the Atlantic. lol).
Na, the UK plan was even worse: shit themselves, do nothing, and amputate Canada because it wasn't worth risking the Royal Navy over. The UK was well aware they couldn't win the inevitable war of industrial attrition with the USA so their whole plan was to just not have one, and if that means the Canadians are now American, so be it.

(Seriously, it was a wash in many ways between the USA and UK when it came to warship capabilities, save for the fact the entire point of the Standard Battleships was that they almost completely interchangeable between one another in terms of war planning, crew training, and the UK would have had no means at all to support its fleet in sustained combat operations on the far side of the Atlantic from them. Leaving aside the serious issue of fuel supply, any ship of theirs that took a serious hit would have needed to be scuttled since the only repair yards were on the other side of the ocean, whereas ours were right there.)
 
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It's equal parts hilarious and distressing that they think they can just flip a switch and be back to a 80's standard of defense overnight.

Unwilling or unable to see that 40 years of dismantling their industry and demoralizing their citizens means it'll take just as long to bring it all back.
I'm not even sure going back to the '80s would be far enough: We'd need to go back to the '60s and un-cancel Blue Streak and TSR2 to retain the advantage we used to have.

Setting aside the malding about Trump, I guess it's nice that they've noticed we've been sat in the cuck chair for fucking decades, but I don't see us getting out of it any time soon.
 
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This is just so fucking ridiculous. We already have bases there, had them over 80 years. Also agree many UK people would support us, since under US occupation they would likely have more rights than they presently have as British subjects. If we then made the UK a US state they would have full Constitutional rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms, freedom of speech, etc.
Aren't the UK Conservatives to the left of the US Democrats?
Many people have been indoctrinated to fear freedom.
It'd be like adding a new California, but with worse weather.
 
Through the “Five Eyes” partnership, the UK automatically shares signals intelligence, human intelligence and defence intelligence with the US government. Edward Snowden’s revelations showed that the US, with the agreement of our government, conducts wholesale espionage on innocent UK citizens. The two governments, with other western nations, run a wide range of joint intelligence programmes, such as Prism, Echelon, Tempora and XKeyscore. The US National Security Agency (NSA) uses the UK agency GCHQ as a subcontractor.
All this is now overseen by Tulsi Gabbard
It's almost as if you shouldn't cooperate and allow forgien governments to mercilessly collect data on your populace to get around pesky limitations on government power.
 
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