Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

The interview probably won't change many minds but I so badly wanted more people to be aware of what a disgusting traitorous pigshit Zelensky is, and this couldn't have gone better to show how he really is. Zelensky has never cared about Ukraine or the Ukrainian people so that's not even a relevant point in trying to defend his behavior, he only cares about his own wallet and life and to enrich his goons. Vance didn't even poke at him directly, the coked up clown just jumps at shadows. His ego is unbelievable, the little man actually thinks he's important.
 
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So, I guess, it's time to post this gem again
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Rough translation:
"Russia is trying to create for the world an image of the boorish Ukrainian" by Podolyak, Ermak's advisor
 
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I'm surprised how many are jumping uncritically to the "Z-Man fucked up" position here. I'm not the most prolific poster in this thread but people know me as not exactly pro-Kiev so it's odd to find myself going so much against the grain. Zelensky has undoubtedly made numerous mistakes, though as someone whose ascent was orchestrated by powerful backers and who well knows there's a bullet waiting for him if he goes too far off script, it's not all on him. He's an actor, after all. But it's not prior fuck-ups I'm contesting but this specific visit. Trump is not an idiot nor inexperienced as a negotiator. Nor is he as hot-headed and impulsive as he effects. That's part of his negotiating strategy. There is zero chance that he went into this meeting without knowing exactly what he wanted to get out of it and if he had wanted this to end with some signed agreement it would have. He's not wrong when he was going on about the USA holding the cards.

I didn't see Zelensky causing this debacle and I'm not sure how others appear to. Zelensky barely got a word in edgeways and was actually attempting to answer Vance's gish-gallop of questions before Trump cut him off before getting to reply to even one. If I were president of a country that had lost maybe a million lives and had significant parts of it occupied by a foreign power and my economy was teetering on collapse and someone starts aggressively telling me "your country has problems" I too would raise my eyebrows like Z-Man and say "Yes, I know!"

People can nitpick at things and say "oh, imagine turning up not wearing a suit" but frankly, Trump knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe there's an element of Trump being already pissed off from previous discussions and something setting him off but in the main, what happened, was exactly what Trump wanted. He wants out of this mess, I believe. He wants rid of Zelensky. And he wants to change public perception of Ukraine and Zelensky as a hero so that he isn't bound by public reactions when he forges some sort of deal with Russia.

This is how he gets it. He has a debacle of a press conference, casts it as Zelensky being ungrateful and rude and sends him way telling him to come back when he's learned some manners. People here can respond and say how they think Zelensky and Ukraine are ungrateful if they want, but Trump could have calmed that down at any point. Instead he clearly let Vance be his attack dog and then once there was blood, came in with the coup de grace. This is what Trump wanted and it gets him the three things in particular: Changes the narrative around Zelensky from heroic underdog to causative factor in the war in much of the public, distances the USA from involvement in Ukraine's war, and quite possibly leads to Zelensky's ejection from power.

TL;DR: Anyone thinking Trump impulsively threw Zelensky out of talks for personal rudeness is naive. Trump like a practiced negotiator knew what he wanted before he even went into that room, and he got it.
 
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Kola said:
The entire world production of rare earth minerals is worth only about $8 billion annually. They are not especially valuable or rare in the grand scheme of things. It was probably a way of strengthening business ties between the two countries, and putting some burgers in Ukraine.
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My understanding is that the overhead on rate earth's is retardedly high especially if your country has any real laws about environmental or worker protection.
 
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'Ole Dente said:
Trump had one job: Take a weak leader, who is extremely vulnerable and desperate, and make a simple deal revolving around mineral rights in exchange for protection against a country that, frankly, we already fight through proxies anyway and who is a significant threat to democracy. He couldn’t even do that. Even the tariff thing isnt working out, the prices are just being bounced back across borders and there’s new trade agreements being made to cut the US out entirely.

All this fat nigga can do is sit in his office and sign papers about transgenders. What a massive L.
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You're a bit retarded ain't ya?
 
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Kola said:
The entire world production of rare earth minerals is worth only about $8 billion annually. They are not especially valuable or rare in the grand scheme of things. It was probably a way of strengthening business ties between the two countries, and putting some burgers in Ukraine.
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I remember reading that it's really more of a matter of having the industry in place to extract those minerals, which is a tremendously polluting and dirty industry.

Of course the US would never have it in their lands, which is why China does it instead.

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A chart like this makes me question the validity of such claims if Canada has so few reserves in its vast territories- it may be more likely that the socioeconomics don't permit their extraction, which means that lands are never fully prospected.

China makes up about 80% of the world's rare earth trade, not because rare earth is concentrated in China, but because China is pretty much the only country in the business due to the lax environmental law and its unsuccessful enforcement.
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Rare-earth minerals are not ‘rare’ per se, as they can be found all over the world. It’s that they are found in very low concentrations where they are found. We know that there is a concentration in California and have known that for years. The question is whether it can be extracted economically.

Rare-earth extraction requires digging up a LOT of ground, processing it using a lot of nasty chemicals, and then figuring out what to do with the leftover material. There is a LOT of pollution and environmental damage that accompanies rare-earth extraction, so in democracies the people usually don’t want it near where they live. It’s the NIMBY issue (Not In My Back Yard).
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This is the key for Rare Earths

Who manufactures Extraction Equipment in the world?
  • China - 46.7%
  • Japan - 28.1%
  • Germany - 9.3%
  • Switzerland - 7.1%
  • Others - 8.8%
Who manufactures the Rare Earth Refining Equipment in the World?
  • China - 92.9%
  • Others - 7.1%
Who owns Rare earth refineries in the World?
  • China - 53.7%
  • Chile - 15% (At least 25% Chinese Owned)
  • Australia & Indonesia - 13.8%
  • Canada - 10%
  • Others - 7.5% (Peru, Brazil etc)
Who owns Rare Earth Refining Patents?
  • China - 516 (468 Active, 48 Lapsed)
  • Canada - 107 (22 Active, 85 Lapsed)
Thus as you can see
It's not about having Rare Earth Deposits

It's about Profitably extracting the same and refining the same for use
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Overly Serious said:
TL;DR: Anyone thinking Trump impulsively threw Zelensky out of talks for personal rudeness is naive. Trump like a practiced negotiator knew what he wanted before he even went into that room, and he got it.
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Trump is acting like a Dad who found out his teenager stole his credit card digits and maxed it out. It's probably and act but the underlying outrage is real.

There have always been people in the Pentagon doing proper war intel in the background while the PR bagdad bobs fed the western media pure shit, Trump is clearly privy to it; Biden's administration were lying out their asses, but they also were always privy to it which is why they never showed the fully detached from reality stupidity of the Eurocrats or straight up now out of the loop retards like Bolton.

I believe this is a big reason the neocons/neoliberals in the USA are not pitching a real boots on the ground rebellion over Trumps geopolitcal actions, they know Ukraine is fucked beyond any repair so any light at the end of the tunnel will be with a Russian deal. They are pretty much letting Trump rip off the bandaid, force the deal he wants; he would get all the woulda-coulda blame regardless so no one who matters cares. This way the Nuland types can scatter from the blowback like roaches.
 
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JDS said:
So, I guess, it's time to post this gem again
View attachment 7038974

Rough translation:
"Russia is trying to create for the world an image of the boorish Ukrainian" by Podolyak, Ermak's advisor
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Hmm… Maybe time to investigate Zelensky for being a Russian agent?

Krokodil Overdose said:
My understanding is that the overhead on rate earth's is retardedly high especially if your country has any real laws about environmental or worker protection.
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Yeah, there’s no way to refine them in a clean way. Which is why Ukraine would be perfect. Lots of land, corrupt shithole where you can pay to change the laws.

Overly Serious said:
TL;DR: Anyone thinking Trump impulsively threw Zelensky out of talks for personal rudeness is naive. Trump like a practiced negotiator knew what he wanted before he even went into that room, and he got it.
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I’ve long given up on pretending to be a Trump whisperer, and only know this: Don’t take everything he says seriously, but he knows what he’s doing and he’s far from as dumb or boorish as you’d think reading the media.

Did Trump cunningly lead lil’ Z into a trap or did Zelensky royally fuck up?

The answer is in there somewhere.
 
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Overly Serious said:
Changes the narrative around Zelensky from heroic underdog to causative factor in the war in much of the public, distances the USA from involvement in Ukraine's war, and quite possibly leads to Zelensky's ejection from power.
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And most importantly, scares Europe even more into increasing their military spending. Division of labor, letting Europe hold the bag so the USA can bow out of the war.
 
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Overly Serious said:
TL;DR: Anyone thinking Trump impulsively threw Zelensky out of talks for personal rudeness is naive. Trump like a practiced negotiator knew what he wanted before he even went into that room, and he got it.
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I don't believe this was pre planned attack on Zelensky, Trump wanted that worthless mineral deal to show he doing something about Ukraine. Zelensky fucked up.
 
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