Animal Breeding Horror Show - Featuring trendy bulldogs, exotic bullies and the dog cum cartel

Would you jerk off animals daily for $10,000 a month?


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Id be happy to shell out for a couple of purebred kittens once he finally goes to the big sunbeam in the sky
The Russian Blue, British Shorthair, American Shorthair, Siberian, and Bombay cats are prone to fewer diseases than most purebreds, and all tend to have very well-rounded personalities and all besides the Siberian are fairly low maintenance when it comes to their coat. They all have genetic issues to be informed about, the main one being hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It can be genetically tested for and usually is by good breeders. I wish you luck with your potential kitten hunt and wish your elderly kitty well!
 
The Russian Blue, British Shorthair, American Shorthair, Siberian, and Bombay cats are prone to fewer diseases than most purebreds, and all tend to have very well-rounded personalities and all besides the Siberian are fairly low maintenance when it comes to their coat. They all have genetic issues to be informed about, the main one being hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It can be genetically tested for and usually is by good breeders. I wish you luck with your potential kitten hunt and wish your elderly kitty well!
Can confirm, for the Bombay breed at least, mine is a solid chunk of a cat that hasn't had any major health issues other than needing some teeth out last year (he was a stray prior to us getting him, so he wasn't exactly getting the best tooth care on the streets). He's very needy though, and vocal as heck, so not a breed for you if you prefer quiet, solitary cats (he really loves lying on my chest while I'm sleeping, it's like a little purring paralysis demon).
 
There is some public pearl clutching over the ethics of these double merle studs. The breeders' pages tend not to mention the lack of eyes though. There are enough people buying merle jizz to keep these dogs going rather than euthanized at birth as the genetic cripples they are.

Single merles aren't universally healthy as far as eyes and ears go, but pretty so who cares. Pic upthread of a dumped bully is a merle btw.

Pigment is really important in neural development. The more white, the more risk. Dogs, cats, horses, hamsters, guinea pigs and probably other "fancy" species have plenty of examples.

Any gene that fucks with pigment distribution is risky, with the possible exception of things like palomino in horses and blue in cats which lighten pigment but do not themselves add white. But they fuck dogs up. Blue dogs frequently have associated skin problems. Albino mutations are shitty too and absolutely are not just all white animals with pink eyes.

The optical pathways are fucked (crosseyed siamese cats) or they are hypersensitive to light and squint all the time ("white" dobermans), they're nearly blind (albino humans), etc. It's a stupid thing to breed for but hey they're cute. Animals in the wild have black skin and dark eyes because those ones survive and reproduce. Look what happens to fair skinned humans who stay out in the sun too long. But who doesn't love redheads and blondes, right? Even human sexual selection is fucking stupid.

Edit: accidentally a a word

There has been a way to do it, as there had been white dog breeds going for centuries. But those usually have brown eyes and aren't albinos. Polar bears maybe similar.

Humans worked out because guess what, there isn't a lot of sunshine in the Uk, roight moite?
Blue eyes were linked to better aiming and low light vision. So it works better outside apefrica.
 
There has been a way to do it, as there had been white dog breeds going for centuries. But those usually have brown eyes and aren't albinos. Polar bears maybe similar.

Humans worked out because guess what, there isn't a lot of sunshine in the Uk, roight moite?
Blue eyes were linked to better aiming and low light vision. So it works better outside apefrica.
White dogs are prone to deafness too, along with horrible skin issues and they can get sunburned if out in the open on a sunny day.
Polar bears do not have white fur in the same sense. They have black skin with fur that is hollow and pigmentless. They reflect light and scatter it, making them appear white. That's why in zoos etc they are more of a weird yellowish/very off white color. The black skin absorbs the suns heat to keep them warm (since the fur doesn't block the light like it would if it was actually pigmented).
Also people in Africa can still be born with lighter eye colors due to mutations, either because of distant ancestry from Europe somewhere or various syndromes. It's rare, but it happens. Much of the human genome and appearance factors are the results of mutations and spontaneous happenings, evolution and nature often does not care about usefulness, more 'if it lives to breed, it will pass on, even if its not super useful at the time or ever'.
 
White dogs are prone to deafness too, along with horrible skin issues and they can get sunburned if out in the open on a sunny day.
Polar bears do not have white fur in the same sense. They have black skin with fur that is hollow and pigmentless. They reflect light and scatter it, making them appear white. That's why in zoos etc they are more of a weird yellowish/very off white color. The black skin absorbs the suns heat to keep them warm (since the fur doesn't block the light like it would if it was actually pigmented).
Also people in Africa can still be born with lighter eye colors due to mutations, either because of distant ancestry from Europe somewhere or various syndromes. It's rare, but it happens. Much of the human genome and appearance factors are the results of mutations and spontaneous happenings, evolution and nature often does not care about usefulness, more 'if it lives to breed, it will pass on, even if its not super useful at the time or ever'.
There are breeds of dog that have ONLY white coats, like Samoyeds, Bichon Frise, and Pyrenees, and they're not all deaf. It depends on the exact gene causing the whiteness, not the whiteness itself, that greatly increased risk of deafness is specifically in dogs or cats which have mixed color coats. Like dalmations and border collies. Albinism specifically is linked to a ton of negative health effects regardless of animal, but genes that make an animal white aren't linked to deafness in all animals either. Piebald sheep don't suffer deafness issues, neither do birds with white feather patterns, or humans with vitilgo. Coloring does link to brain development and related issues in almost every animal, but you can't conflate whiteness with deafness as a general rule or one species' pattern problems to a different species altogether.

And while the appearance of harmless mutations is fairly common and inconsequential, the appearance of solely negative traits historically almost never passed on. Useful traits passed on because they were, hey, useful! It helped you survive to adulthood and beyond, letting you have more children and, in social animals, to guide and protect your group even beyond your fertile years. Random mutations often have zero affect and aren't visible, but the major (I.E. visible) ones are almost always hugely consequential. It's not "random mutations and happenings and stuff", the odd genetic once-off fuck up or the rare dredging up of a harmful gene that's been buried and turned off for generations is not the rule in evolution, it's the exception, the mistake. Even traits we see as net negatives today, like diabetes and sickle cell anemia, were actually useful traits actively passed down once upon a time. Sickle cell anemia can make you sick, but it also makes you completely immune to malaria, which is why sickle cell disease is almost exclusive to Africans from areas where malaria infection is very common. Neanderthal metabolisms worked a bit differently than ours, they almost had a form of insulin resistence which allowed them to supply their muscles with higher levels of more bioavailable energy. In freezing temperatures, this along with their body fat distribution (mostly in the belly) allowed them to survive. Today, with our inherently lazy lifestyles and overly carb-heavy diets, these genes cause diabetes. There are plenty more examples of this.

It wasn't until civilization started increasing the lifespans of the genetically screwed up, and people started intentionally breeding plants and animals and keeping them alive despite serious issues, that we started seeing these things get any kind of commonplace. It's simply not natural - all of these domestic cats and dogs with color-related deafness would have died out long ago without human interference, and isn't that literally what this entire thread is about? Horrific, fucked up abominations who live to suffer and make their owners money when they had no business being born that way in the first place? We get upset because we see these smashed and slammed dogs, the radar dish headed horses, the eyeless and deaf double merles, and we know on some deep, inner level that it's just wrong, even cruel because it was, to some degree, completely intentional. It goes against the rules of nature and disturbs the empathetic part of us.

As an aside, I believe that person was saying that blue eyes/light skin was less useful in Africa than in other places, not that it doesn't exist there at all. We do know blue eyes/light skin was a helpful adaptation in humans in the far North.
 
I ask because my beloved cat is rather elderly. We got him from a non breeder source and have dealt with his multiple health issues and vet bills for years (which we do gladly, we love him but it’s an expense I’d like to try to avoid.) Id be happy to shell out for a couple of purebred kittens once he finally goes to the big sunbeam in the sky, and I don’t trust our local cat rescue much.
The sickest cat I ever had was a semi-feral stray and somehow, while being continually sick, he lived 17-18 years (not entirely sure when he was born).
 
White dogs are prone to deafness too, along with horrible skin issues and they can get sunburned if out in the open on a sunny day.
Polar bears do not have white fur in the same sense. They have black skin with fur that is hollow and pigmentless. They reflect light and scatter it, making them appear white. That's why in zoos etc they are more of a weird yellowish/very off white color. The black skin absorbs the suns heat to keep them warm (since the fur doesn't block the light like it would if it was actually pigmented).
Also people in Africa can still be born with lighter eye colors due to mutations, either because of distant ancestry from Europe somewhere or various syndromes. It's rare, but it happens. Much of the human genome and appearance factors are the results of mutations and spontaneous happenings, evolution and nature often does not care about usefulness, more 'if it lives to breed, it will pass on, even if its not super useful at the time or ever'.
I was gonna ask about white dogs like my Great Pyr, but now that you mention it his belly skin is dappled with black coloring, his lips are black, and the tongue is pink (iirc great pyrs are considered flawed if their tongues are black or spotted) just the hair is white w some off white patches. Is that healthy? Cause there are several dog breeds where white or mostly white predominate, like bichons.
 
There are breeds of dog that have ONLY white coats, like Samoyeds, Bichon Frise, and Pyrenees,
I don’t want to nitpick but Pyrs can have light markings and it’s not considered a flaw. Mine has light brown ears with a charcoal grey fringe (this is called Badger color and was way more vibrant when he was a puppy) and a very light brown crescent over the butt. I don’t think that is true of Samoyeds or Bichons though - they’re always pure white all over.
And while the appearance of harmless mutations is fairly common and inconsequential, the appearance of solely negative traits historically almost never passed on. Useful traits passed on because they were, hey, useful!
I read somewhere that early dog domesticated and breeders had a really strong preference for white dogs. I think this is because a white dog is easily distinguished from a wolf or other predator and you can visually detect it more easily compared to the natural agouti brown color that just looks like the same as the ground. So whiteness may not be useful to dogs per se but artificial selection promotes it anyhow.

Photos: Bear recently vs. Bear when I got him as a puppy, to show you the markings and how they faded.
 

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I was gonna ask about white dogs like my Great Pyr, but now that you mention it his belly skin is dappled with black coloring, his lips are black, and the tongue is pink (iirc great pyrs are considered flawed if their tongues are black or spotted) just the hair is white w some off white patches. Is that healthy? Cause there are several dog breeds where white or mostly white predominate, like bichons.
Your dog is adorable, I love him.
Also he's healthy and having patches of other colors and splotches on the tongue are normal for a lot of dog breeds, its all connected to the genes for their fur pattern and color, and is just melanin showing up on the tongue surface. Some breeds, like Chows, have lots of it so their tongues are that clear black/blue color.
It's mostly just dog shows that demand dog breeds be uniform in color and patterns, with no deviations from the 'standard' accepted show patterns/colors. Also the breed is known for the puppies having patches of grey/darker colors that fade on adulthood, that's normal.
 
I don’t want to nitpick but Pyrs can have light markings and it’s not considered a flaw. Mine has light brown ears with a charcoal grey fringe (this is called Badger color and was way more vibrant when he was a puppy) and a very light brown crescent over the butt. I don’t think that is true of Samoyeds or Bichons though - they’re always pure white all over.

I believe both Sams and Bichons can/do have cream colored fur as pups eg ears, but this fades to white as their adult coat comes in. Both have dark eyes and black noses. They look white but they're genetically cream or something.

If the smashed n slammed people want pure white dogs, I'm sure as a matter of principle they'll choose the most genetically harmful way of doing it.
 
Just found this thread and still reading through it but wanted to add my two cents (hopefully no one has brought up this specific point before) about reptile breeding. Snakes are wayyy worse than lizards, at least in my experience.
I'm relatively familiar with the reptile breeding scene in the southeastern United States - even have some connections to the Florida scene, which seems to be the biggest. For the most part, lizard breeders are pretty good and prioritize the health of the animal
I am also a reptile person, though my experience is mainly with boas and arboreal geckos. Both groups have some cases of morphs/mutations that cause health issues in the most common species but I don’t know of any that are very popular, really most of the morphs are fine. I don’t think it’s a snake vs lizard thing, the two species that have the most fucked genetics/breeding are by far ball pythons and leopard geckos. 90+% of the time that I hear about a morph with inherent health issues it’s one of those two species. It’s basically a handful of the most popularly kept species vs everything else.

You don’t really see SMASHED and SLAMMED non-avian reptiles, just ones that have a bad mutation or two (i.e. Spider in ball pythons, which is such a fucked gene that if a snake has two of the defective alleles it will be fully incompatible with life). If the offspring of a spider ball python lacks the spider allele, it will be a normal, healthy snake, but if you breed an exotic bully with a normal pit the offspring will be half-normal and half-fucked, which is still a dysgenic animal. IMO fish and bird breeding gets a lot worse than reptile breeding, probably because goldfish, bettas, pigeons, chickens, etc have distinct breeds, not just pattern and color morphs. There are some boa morphs that have inherent health issues but they’re mostly so ill that they are difficult to breed so you don’t see many on the market.

Albino or Leucistic (all white, often with blue eyes) reptiles can be unhealthy/controversial in some species though they are usually alright in captivity. True scaleless snakes tend to be pretty fragile and miserable but I guess it might be different for bearded dragons. Snakes really need their belly scales to slither around comfortably and IIRC certain face scales are also important (especially in burrowing species). There are several species that have partially scaled morphs which are fine because they have the important scales. Hybridization of closely related species (or even very distantly related localities in some species) can be pretty controversial. Most of the hybrids I’ve seen seem healthy, though there are combinations that don’t do well. In some cases the health of hybrids can vary widely between individual animals based on which traits they got from each parent. I imagine that if you bred a bunch of hybrids, selected the healthiest, then bred those healthy ones for a few generations you could eliminate any issues, though there’s not much reason to develop hybrid populations like that when so many species already exist.

Edit: Like @Petrusha the White said below, often the argument against albinos, hybrids, partial scaleless, etc is that they wouldn’t survive in the wild, which has nothing to do with their quality of life in captivity. If that’s the only negative thing you can find to say about a morph, it’s not a problematic morph. Personally I’m still not convinced that taking away the majority of a snake’s scales really does not cause any adverse affects, but I’ve never interacted with such snakes so I don’t have enough information to make up my mind one way or the other. Snake skin without scales is actually quite thin and delicate, to the point that if a scaleless snake doesn’t have a very soft bedding it can be dangerous for them. There must be at least a bit of extra discomfort for them, which I would be willing to overlook if there was a practical reason to have a scaleless snake. But it’s not like people are trying to breed a snake that causes less allergens or is better for meat production or whatever, it’s just to make them look different.
 
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True scaleless snakes tend to be pretty fragile and miserable but I guess it might be different for bearded dragons. Snakes really need their belly scales to slither around comfortably and IIRC certain face scales are also important (especially in burrowing species). There are several species that have partially scaled morphs which are fine because they have the important scales.
Yeah, that's basically it. Scaleless/partially scaleless morphs actually (from a scientific perspective) confirmed which sets of scales are actually important for a snake... though realistically speaking, any scaleless/partially scaleless morph would almost certainly die in the wild. However, when talking about a genotype that basically only crops up when humans breed the animal, "Would this animal survive in the wild?" is not a good metric for how acceptable said genotype is to breed. "Can this animal still thrive in captivity?" is a better one. At that point it's more a question of how to ensure that such animals only end up in the hands of keepers who are actually able to address their special needs (if they have them).
Speaking of: scaleless/silky beardies. Would definitely die in the wild. Do totally fine in captivity, as long as the owner isn't a retard. Honestly their care isn't even that much more complicated than care for normal beardies. Having a higher risk of burns or dehydration is irrelevant if your husbandry is good: you should have already mitigated the risks to begin with, even for your totally vanilla bog standard beardie. As far as genetic abominations go, scaleless/silky beardies can be kept pretty successfully by complete normies.

(Pretty much any domestic beardie would die in the wild though ngl. They are VERY different from their wildtype counterparts.)
 
Honestly their care isn't even that much more complicated than care for normal beardies. Having a higher risk of burns or dehydration is irrelevant if your husbandry is good: you should have already mitigated the risks to begin with, even for your totally vanilla bog standard beardie. As far as genetic abominations go, scaleless/silky beardies can be kept pretty successfully by complete normies.
Absolutely this. It always at least mildly concerns me when people complain about scaleless reptiles and other, slightly higher maintenance versions of common pets. I think it's just another sign of the incredibly casual approach the USA in particular has for animals. "Your furless cat needs a bath and can't be allowed outside all day long!" ...Yeah, you never groom your normal furred pet cat, and you let it live almost entirely outside your home, or what? If you want to argue they shouldn't exist because humans essentially engineered them that's one thing, or if their quality of life actually suffers like for albinos, but a minimally scaled snake has almost the exact same needs for optimal health as a regular one. I kind of see it as the difference between someone getting a small, short-coated dog (like a minpin) versus a large, double-coated, long-haired dog (like a malamute) - one needs an occasional brushing, if that, the other needs special considerations for how and when to cut hair, needs to be washed more often, and brushed pretty much every day. Yet, I never see anyone clutch pearls or complain that owning a malamute or a newfoundland is too hard/immoral/cruel to the animal, like you see for people owning scaleless snakes. I wonder if that's because dog ownership has a stronger, more visible and normalized history than herp keeping?
 
Yet, I never see anyone clutch pearls or complain that owning a malamute or a newfoundland is too hard/immoral/cruel to the animal, like you see for people owning scaleless snakes. I wonder if that's because dog ownership has a stronger, more visible and normalized history than herp keeping?
I think its more because people hear 'scaleless' and think the snake has had all of its skin removed and is now like a squishy amphibian or something and living a life of agony without its hard skin. And they never do any research beyond that, so don't understand that the snakes still have skin and are pretty okay when looked after well. It's like how some fancy pigeons look like they are struggling but are in fact perfectly fine when cared for properly in captivity, which is what they were bred for, not for living in the wild.
 
I think it's both, and they both stem from the same source: ignorance. Not that I expect any random normie to be well-versed in the care and keeping of exotic pets - I don't really blame them if they hear "scaleless" and think "skinless" or look at fancy pigeons and go "Wow that looks weird! How can that possibly be okay?" I also don't expect them to know that all beardies should be provided with a water dish deep enough to cover their back (but not their head when held up), not just the silkies. But it is ignorance nonetheless!
 
On the topic of white animals: I've always heard people claim white cats are all deaf, but we've had 2 and they were fine. However, both had green eyes.
One did go fully deaf but like, at age 14.
It seems to be related to eye color as well. Color genetics are weird.
I know hairless breeds can be prone to tooth issues, but not all are. It's odd.
 
On the topic of white animals: I've always heard people claim white cats are all deaf, but we've had 2 and they were fine. However, both had green eyes.
One did go fully deaf but like, at age 14.
It seems to be related to eye color as well. Color genetics are weird.
I know hairless breeds can be prone to tooth issues, but not all are. It's odd.
I don’t think absolutely all of them are deaf, but it’s true that white cats with blue eyes are far more likely to be, even if they have heterochromia and only one blue eye. Though I don’t know exactly why this is since I’m not that knowledgable about genetics.
 
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