- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
Hell, how many of them survived birth and the first 4 weeks of life after that?
Animal Breeding Horror Show - Featuring trendy bulldogs, exotic bullies and the dog cum cartel
- Thread starter Spennychu
- Start date
James done did it
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2020
ALERTNonga Tork
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2024
Only $5000 for an animal that will be dead in five years and spend those years in misery.
At least with the stupid expensive cat breeds they're usually some sort of weird crossbreed with a wildcat and are functional animals.
James done did it
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2020
don't talk about those cringe cats with functional bodies here, this is bullycat territory whiteboy.
74164978231
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2022
$5000 up front + whatever you spend on vet bills until it dies.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
I'm very late, but very glad to see some lurcher love on the farms, they are wonderful, healthy mixed-breed animals and make fantastic pets. High as fuck prey drive and usually frustratingly aloof, but also expressive, loving couch potatoes with golden heartsdisclaimer: I have a 3yo saluki and bedlington three-way mix and my mum has an 11yo saluki mix, both 10/10 dogs, so I may be a little biased in saying all that
As @Mao Hao Hao mentions, gypsies do weird, unholy gypsy shit with them... When I lived in potatoniggerland and before I got my boy snipped, there was an XL Bully owner who asked me multiple times if I might want to breed him with their murderhippo bitch. Even very kindly offered to leave her muzzle on for the pairing one time, presumably just in case she flipped out and ripped his throat out halfway through.
Needless to say, I politely refused (and made note of their car so that if I saw it parked where I walked him I could keep him safely out of her jaws.) Gypsies, man — not even once.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2023
Just found this thread and still reading through it but wanted to add my two cents (hopefully no one has brought up this specific point before) about reptile breeding. Snakes are wayyy worse than lizards, at least in my experience.
I'm relatively familiar with the reptile breeding scene in the southeastern United States - even have some connections to the Florida scene, which seems to be the biggest. For the most part, lizard breeders are pretty good and prioritize the health of the animal. Carolina Designer Dragons/Carolina Classic Dragons I would actually recommend for fancy bearded dragon morphs, as my family has had several extremely healthy and long-lived beardies from them. Their animals always look healthy and appropriately cared for at expos, and they display the lineage of each dragon so that you can be sure there's no incest. (Also if you want to breed them yourself later, but honestly most of their customers don't seem to do that)
But also, fancy bearded dragon species are (as far as I've seen) not associated with health problems generally. They basically just come in "weird color" "unusually big" and silky/scaleless. Silky/scaleless beardies require a closer eye since there's technically a risk of skin issues especially re: shedding and a theoretically higher possibility of them becoming dehydrated, but as long as you have a proper setup (all beardie tanks should include a dish of water big enough for the lizard to lie down in) then it's basically just a matter of giving them extra baths occasionally. We had a silky who lived somewhere around 17 years (lifespan in the wild is 10-15) with no health issues until the very, very end, and even that was typical elderly "just doesn't want to eat anymore".
(Second ETA: With silkies/scaleless beardies there's also technically a risk of easier skin tears but realistically speaking the only time a pet bearded dragon with a non-retarded owner is going to be at risk of that kind of injury at all is if it's being bred. Beardies bite during the mating process, especially males biting females. If you're not breeding your lizards, you really don't need to worry about it.)
Most species of lizards are basically like this. I am aware that some morphs of leopard gecko do have associated health problems but I've personally never seen those morphs at expos. The breeders I know are all extremely strict about health and will axe a lizard from their breeding pool over minor health problems, even if they're not necessarily genetic. Lots of breeders don't even go for making morphs but instead trying to create the most robust wildtype specimen they can. I know a guy who's pretty much trying to create immortal anoles. "Active, bright (but wildtype) colors, and will live a long time" is an actual selling point in some of these circles.
One issue I do have with expos is that due to their nature, the breeder can't actually be sure that the customer has a decent setup. I do know of some breeders who will require you to purchase certain things (lights, food) at the expo just to be 100% sure you had it. Outside of an expo, though, it's pretty typical for breeders to demand pictures of your setup before they sell you the animal. Sometimes they'll also ask for the contact info of your local vet so they can call and ask if they'll see reptiles. Iirc, this is why Emerald Scales went out of business - his requirements for adopting an animal from him were so strict that he couldn't actually find enough people to adopt and make any of the money back. (Though those animals were rescues and often special needs, which makes requirements 100x worse.)
Snake breeders on the other hand are fucking insane. I saw that Brian Barcuck and his ilk have already been touched on in this thread. And yeah, there are an unfortunately high amount of morphs of different species that have associated health issues, especially neurological issues. Some expos ban these morphs but the breeders/sellers will sometimes just lie about it (since many of these morphs look pretty similar to healthier morphs - spider ball pythons are fucked up but some of the related morphs haven't had any reported genetic issues, at least as of yet) or sneakily advertise that their snakes carry genes for them. (Thanks to this I'm permanently wary of any snakes advertised as being het [heterozygous genes].)
There are good snake breeders out there, but in my experience it's the smaller ones who basically do it as a hobby. The more a snake breeding operation scales up, the more likely they are to do something fucked up with their snakes. Biggest red flag if you ask me? Whether or not they keep their snakes in racks year round. Snake racks (rows of basically tupperware containers on shelfs, they were posted earlier in the thread) aren't automatically a bad thing and for some (not all) species would theoretically be okay full time, but in practice they're really only something you should use when you're breeding a snake or if a snake is in quarantine (such as if they're a new acquisition). Basically a situation where you'd need to be able to check on them frequently.
Snakes are actually pretty intelligent creatures (though god knows I've met some real dumbass ones) and they CAN get bored. Even if they're a species that doesn't necessarily want a lot of space or verticality, it's still good to give them more features in their tank besides a water dish and a basic hide. They do need enrichment, and probably don't want it from playing with a human!
ETA: Which is to say, I consider this a red flag because it tells me that the breeder is prioritizing "product" over husbandry. Racks are convenient for the owner, but it's better to have a happy animal.
This is just my subjective personal experience, though. The only animals I've personally bred have been tortoises, and there really isn't a tortoise breeding scene since tortoise morphs don't really exist. (I was actually breeding them as part of an endangered species preservation project. I was just an intern lol.)
I have shitposted before wanting to make a tokay gecko breeding project where I specifically select for the most aggressive geckos until I eventually create the lizard equivalent of a pit bull. If you've ever met a tokay gecko, you know exactly what I mean.
Anyway, sorry for interrupting the flow of conversation. I just couldn't contain myself.
I'm relatively familiar with the reptile breeding scene in the southeastern United States - even have some connections to the Florida scene, which seems to be the biggest. For the most part, lizard breeders are pretty good and prioritize the health of the animal. Carolina Designer Dragons/Carolina Classic Dragons I would actually recommend for fancy bearded dragon morphs, as my family has had several extremely healthy and long-lived beardies from them. Their animals always look healthy and appropriately cared for at expos, and they display the lineage of each dragon so that you can be sure there's no incest. (Also if you want to breed them yourself later, but honestly most of their customers don't seem to do that)
But also, fancy bearded dragon species are (as far as I've seen) not associated with health problems generally. They basically just come in "weird color" "unusually big" and silky/scaleless. Silky/scaleless beardies require a closer eye since there's technically a risk of skin issues especially re: shedding and a theoretically higher possibility of them becoming dehydrated, but as long as you have a proper setup (all beardie tanks should include a dish of water big enough for the lizard to lie down in) then it's basically just a matter of giving them extra baths occasionally. We had a silky who lived somewhere around 17 years (lifespan in the wild is 10-15) with no health issues until the very, very end, and even that was typical elderly "just doesn't want to eat anymore".
(Second ETA: With silkies/scaleless beardies there's also technically a risk of easier skin tears but realistically speaking the only time a pet bearded dragon with a non-retarded owner is going to be at risk of that kind of injury at all is if it's being bred. Beardies bite during the mating process, especially males biting females. If you're not breeding your lizards, you really don't need to worry about it.)
Most species of lizards are basically like this. I am aware that some morphs of leopard gecko do have associated health problems but I've personally never seen those morphs at expos. The breeders I know are all extremely strict about health and will axe a lizard from their breeding pool over minor health problems, even if they're not necessarily genetic. Lots of breeders don't even go for making morphs but instead trying to create the most robust wildtype specimen they can. I know a guy who's pretty much trying to create immortal anoles. "Active, bright (but wildtype) colors, and will live a long time" is an actual selling point in some of these circles.
One issue I do have with expos is that due to their nature, the breeder can't actually be sure that the customer has a decent setup. I do know of some breeders who will require you to purchase certain things (lights, food) at the expo just to be 100% sure you had it. Outside of an expo, though, it's pretty typical for breeders to demand pictures of your setup before they sell you the animal. Sometimes they'll also ask for the contact info of your local vet so they can call and ask if they'll see reptiles. Iirc, this is why Emerald Scales went out of business - his requirements for adopting an animal from him were so strict that he couldn't actually find enough people to adopt and make any of the money back. (Though those animals were rescues and often special needs, which makes requirements 100x worse.)
Snake breeders on the other hand are fucking insane. I saw that Brian Barcuck and his ilk have already been touched on in this thread. And yeah, there are an unfortunately high amount of morphs of different species that have associated health issues, especially neurological issues. Some expos ban these morphs but the breeders/sellers will sometimes just lie about it (since many of these morphs look pretty similar to healthier morphs - spider ball pythons are fucked up but some of the related morphs haven't had any reported genetic issues, at least as of yet) or sneakily advertise that their snakes carry genes for them. (Thanks to this I'm permanently wary of any snakes advertised as being het [heterozygous genes].)
There are good snake breeders out there, but in my experience it's the smaller ones who basically do it as a hobby. The more a snake breeding operation scales up, the more likely they are to do something fucked up with their snakes. Biggest red flag if you ask me? Whether or not they keep their snakes in racks year round. Snake racks (rows of basically tupperware containers on shelfs, they were posted earlier in the thread) aren't automatically a bad thing and for some (not all) species would theoretically be okay full time, but in practice they're really only something you should use when you're breeding a snake or if a snake is in quarantine (such as if they're a new acquisition). Basically a situation where you'd need to be able to check on them frequently.
Snakes are actually pretty intelligent creatures (though god knows I've met some real dumbass ones) and they CAN get bored. Even if they're a species that doesn't necessarily want a lot of space or verticality, it's still good to give them more features in their tank besides a water dish and a basic hide. They do need enrichment, and probably don't want it from playing with a human!
ETA: Which is to say, I consider this a red flag because it tells me that the breeder is prioritizing "product" over husbandry. Racks are convenient for the owner, but it's better to have a happy animal.
This is just my subjective personal experience, though. The only animals I've personally bred have been tortoises, and there really isn't a tortoise breeding scene since tortoise morphs don't really exist. (I was actually breeding them as part of an endangered species preservation project. I was just an intern lol.)
I have shitposted before wanting to make a tokay gecko breeding project where I specifically select for the most aggressive geckos until I eventually create the lizard equivalent of a pit bull. If you've ever met a tokay gecko, you know exactly what I mean.
Anyway, sorry for interrupting the flow of conversation. I just couldn't contain myself.
Last edited:
Adorable Steak Sandwich
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2023
That was a great rabbit hole to go down thank you, and as an aside tokays are an invasive where I live so yeah lol I get it.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2020
Was at the vet yesterday with my very good boy blue ACD when this black guy walked in (talking at full volume with someone on speaker phone) with THREE of the worst-bred German shepherd puppies I have ever seen. They walked on their whole back legs like the picture below, with their spine sloping down to the ground like weird little fur-slugs. It should not surprise you that this man ignored the monsters as they barked nonstop and tried to bust their leashes to get at all the other animals in the waiting room.
I overheard the receptionist talking to the guy and apparently the dogs were named Thor, Loki, and Freya. There is a joke in there somewhere about a an American black guy owning badly bred German shepherds with Nordic names but I’m too dumb to think of it.
He declined the receptionist when he was asked if he planned on requesting a spay and 2 neuters, because “he’s gonna breed them.”
“Mom, what does ‘manmade horrors beyond our comprehension’ mean?”
I overheard the receptionist talking to the guy and apparently the dogs were named Thor, Loki, and Freya. There is a joke in there somewhere about a an American black guy owning badly bred German shepherds with Nordic names but I’m too dumb to think of it.
He declined the receptionist when he was asked if he planned on requesting a spay and 2 neuters, because “he’s gonna breed them.”
“Mom, what does ‘manmade horrors beyond our comprehension’ mean?”
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2021
You shot him, right?
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2023
Genuine question since I'm a reptile guy and not a dog guy. How the fuck does a dog end up walking like that? That's their ankle.
Cr1ms0n_&_C10v3r
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2019
Badly bred GSDs and the extreme show line ones will walk or stand on their hocks because of their sloped backs, and their leg bones being at the wrong angle to their back and the ground to be able to stand normally without effort.
James done did it
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2020
Again preserving the work of a dedicated anon:
tl;dr he has traced Doughboy's ancestry back to the 19th century.
what's incredible to me is like 95% of the 'progress' in toadification was made in the last 20 years. Juan "Jaun" Gotti was born ~1996 and was clearly identifiable as a dog. He began his prolific history as a sire in 1997 and went on to sire nearly 1,000 AKC registered dogs, many of which were SMASHED and SLAMMED but some of which just went back into breeding more pibbles and the "XL" bully lines. Another interesting detail is, at least among known/registered sires and dams there are no English or French Bulldogs in the Gottiline or subsequent Toad/Miagi lines, contrary to popular beliefs. Some other exotic bully lines may have bulldog influence but they went from this to Doughboy with nothing but pitbulls and an occasional boxer.
tl;dr he has traced Doughboy's ancestry back to the 19th century.
what's incredible to me is like 95% of the 'progress' in toadification was made in the last 20 years. Juan "Jaun" Gotti was born ~1996 and was clearly identifiable as a dog. He began his prolific history as a sire in 1997 and went on to sire nearly 1,000 AKC registered dogs, many of which were SMASHED and SLAMMED but some of which just went back into breeding more pibbles and the "XL" bully lines. Another interesting detail is, at least among known/registered sires and dams there are no English or French Bulldogs in the Gottiline or subsequent Toad/Miagi lines, contrary to popular beliefs. Some other exotic bully lines may have bulldog influence but they went from this to Doughboy with nothing but pitbulls and an occasional boxer.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
Mind boggling to think that all smashies are basically one branch of an already inbred extended family, with distant relatives in probably every single dog shelter and kennel.
I want to see a karyotype of one of these dogs, because I'm willing to bet their DNA has been so ravaged by inbreeding that their whole chromosomes have become abnormal.
James done did it
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2020
Doughboy has a COI of around 98%, I think I posted a little more detail earlier in this thread. We're speedrunning speciation here, canis bufo will be a reality soon.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
For reference, King Charles II was less inbred than these dogs.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2021
Charles II was the product of multiple matings between first cousins. Toadlines were created by multiple rounds of filial and sibling incest. Let that sink in.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2023
This photo is very optimistic. There is no way Mr. Miagi and co. are getting their stomachs off the ground.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
These "dogs" are so inbred that they are literally eldritch. They are things that should not exist.
Anyone who brings creatures like this into existence is worse than a necromancer and should be immediately shot and shoveled into a grave at a crossroads at midnight with its lips sewn shut and garlic in its mouth.
Death to all these things.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2022
there's been a thread here and there about the derps of herp, pops up in chatter here once or twice I think