Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[King Dead]

So even the wokeshit Utopia is so pathetic and weak that it can't withstand even minimal chud attacks.

I had a good laugh when I was reading the section about the citadel defenses. I'll paste it here in its entirety:

The Radiant Citadel's location within the Deep Ethereal makes it difficult to assault. It keeps no standing army, but its council for defense has contingency plans it frequently refines based on intelligence from the Court of Whispers.

The city's primary protection is a powerful ward that can be activated by the Speakers for the Ancestors. When all fifteen are assembled in the council room at the center of the Preserve, by unanimous consent they can erect a diamond sphere that envelops the entire city. The diamond sphere resembles the Auroral Diamond in texture and color and deflects all attacks. Nothing can pass or teleport through it.

If the diamond sphere cannot be erected for any reason, the Radiant Citadel is not helpless. Due to its many mysteries and its magical properties, the city attracts an unusually large number of powerful adventurers and spellcasters. If the citadel is attacked, no fewer than a dozen archmages and twenty mages led by Sholeh (note: ancient brass dragon) rally. If required, Arayat, commander of the Shieldbearers, also mobilizes his Shieldbearer veterans, while the other Speakers for the Ancestors call on the citizenry to bolster the city's defense.

The Auroral Diamond's illumination also provides strong protection. It radiates bright light throughout the city and dim light 1,000 feet beyond the city's borders. This light is akin to sunlight, which many natives of the Ethereal Plane and evil Undead abhor.

So obviously the biggest defense they have is their magic shield that is completely invulnerable to both attacks and teleports (because that's not overpowered), but if someone slips inside and murders or otherwise incapacitates a single Speaker, it's completely useless because the idiots designed their shield to require fifteen separate people to come together in the same place and agree to activate it.

And then beyond that, their total defenses amount to some mages and archmages, an indeterminate number of squishy warriors, and a single ancient brass dragon, along with "the citizenry" who will probably not amount to much help. Yeah, the book says "no fewer than," but I think it's safe to assume they don't have a giant army hiding somewhere. A group of high-level adventurers with proper planning could utterly destroy this juicy weak target.

I think one of the stupid splats introduced a human sized lion people, basically less murdery fantasy Kilrathi. And as long as I knew they weren't going to turn this into a yiff inflation/vore fest, and they weren't trying to shoe horn them in like Fantasy Bronze Age, I'd probably be ok with that - the lion people aren't superpopular so I'm assuming that means they aren't broken.
(Actually, I take that back too. I could see a lion-man working into Fantasy Bronze Age as some sort of work of the gods.)

That would be the leonin from Mystic Odysseys of Theros, another of the MtG splats. Funny that you mention fantasy Bronze Age since the setting takes heavy inspiration from ancient Greece.

Leonin aren't overly exceptional at anything in particular. They have a slightly faster than normal speed, +2 CON/+1 STR, darkvision, claws as natural weapons, a choice of skill proficiency, and an AOE roar that can frighten nearby enemies. They work best as strength-based melee classes, but there are definitely better choies for min/maxing. I personally wouldn't ban leonin since they're fairly middle of the road overall, and its more bestial appearance probably helps weed out most furfaggotry.

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn, or similar? I know a lot of people here really aren't fond of any "furry"/non-human races in DnD - thanks, Tabaxi and Tiefling players - but I was wondering if you guys banned the dragon race as well. They seem similar to the Leonin that @King Dead mentioned, but I also know they've got a fanbase, though not as cancerous as Tabaxi from what I've seen.

 

[Bâtard Consanguine]

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn, or similar? I know a lot of people here really aren't fond of any "furry"/non-human races in DnD - thanks, Tabaxi and Tiefling players - but I was wondering if you guys banned the dragon race as well. They seem similar to the Leonin that @King Dead mentioned, but I also know they've got a fanbase, though not as cancerous as Tabaxi from what I've seen.

My opinion on any race boils down to intent. Are you playing as it to take advantage of the inherent racial abilities (roll Barbarian but Dragonborn so you can exploit the breath attack as a spell-like ability) or are you playing it as some weird roleplay (It's imperative that my fuckboy Bard has scales and a tail!)

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn

Draconians are superior in every way, especially once Don Perrin started writing stories about them.

 

[The Ugly One]

A group of high-level adventurers with proper planning could utterly destroy this juicy weak target.

An archmage in 5e is basically a 17th-level wizard, while a Mage is a 9th-level wizard. An ancient brass dragon is CR 20. A dozen archmages, twenty mages, and an ancient brass dragon would not be trivial for four high-level adventurers. What the writers here did is give the DM an official deus machina of "and then a whole bunch of wizards appear and all cast Fireball at once and you die."

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn, or similar?

They don't belong in classic settings. Don't care otherwise.

 

[Mr. Manchester]

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn, or similar? I know a lot of people here really aren't fond of any "furry"/non-human races in DnD - thanks, Tabaxi and Tiefling players - but I was wondering if you guys banned the dragon race as well. They seem similar to the Leonin that @King Dead mentioned, but I also know they've got a fanbase, though not as cancerous as Tabaxi from what I've seen.

I always thought they looked pretty stupid. There's certain games that they just don't belong in so I never understood why they were ever a core race. I'm guessing people kept telling wizards how cool it would be to play a dragon and wizards used this as a compromise. If they made a book with rules for playing a dragon instead it probably would have sold pretty well, not now that everyone hates Hasbro though.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Should've also had Aasimar as a core race if it had Tieflings.

 

[Ghostse]

Okay, so a bit of a follow-up to a prior question; what's everyone's thoughts on the Dragonborn, or similar? I know a lot of people here really aren't fond of any "furry"/non-human races in DnD - thanks, Tabaxi and Tiefling players - but I was wondering if you guys banned the dragon race as well. They seem similar to the Leonin that @King Dead mentioned, but I also know they've got a fanbase, though not as cancerous as Tabaxi from what I've seen.

I don't care about them either way, maybe leaning favorable because I've had a number of good players go Dragonborn.
I know there are dragon coomers but I've never had any go to dragon born. They are a little min-maxy but their breath weapon is so conditional and usually sucks it'd be better to just carry some alchemical flasks. They don't make nor are protrayed as chaos gremlins so no behaviorial issues with players wanting to shit up a game with chaotic neutrality.

If I was doing a more serious/"mud farmer" campaign and someone was dedicated on a Dragonborn build, I'd just change their description to be like a human with scaly dry skin. Depending on edition, I might declare some of the feats about embracing draconic nature as haram.

I personally wouldn't ban leonin since they're fairly middle of the road overall, and its more bestial appearance probably helps weed out most furfaggotry.

Yeah, those sound completely fine to be honest. Provided they theme in with the rest of campaign and I'm sure the player won't be trying to take a trip to their magical realm.

I always thought they looked pretty stupid. There's certain games that they just don't belong in so I never understood why they were ever a core race. I'm guessing people kept telling wizards how cool it would be to play a dragon and wizards used this as a compromise. If they made a book with rules for playing a dragon instead it probably would have sold pretty well, not now that everyone hates Hasbro though.

I'll solve this mystery: Dragonborn is a trademarked term, thus protected IP, which is why you'll see the rip-off products calling them "Half-Dragon".
I also concur they had no business being a core race except the war between the Dragonborn/Teifling empires being pretty important to lore.

 

[Kyle Parson]

Should've also had Aasimar as a core race if it had Tieflings.

For 5th edition, I felt like there not being a +2 WIS race in the Player's HandBook was weird and they should have added the Elradin and Aasimar from the Dungeon Master's Guide into the PHB.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

For 5th edition, I felt like there not being a +2 WIS race in the Player's HandBook was weird and they should have added the Elradin and Aasimar from the Dungeon Master's Guide into the PHB.

Very good point. (In my case it just felt like having chocolate ice cream but no vanilla. Or a sun but no moon. Throws off the yin-yang, you know?)

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

My opinion on any race boils down to intent. Are you playing as it to take advantage of the inherent racial abilities (roll Barbarian but Dragonborn so you can exploit the breath attack as a spell-like ability) or are you playing it as some weird roleplay (It's imperative that my fuckboy Bard has scales and a tail!)

I was thinking about running a villain one for a raid on the Radiant Citadel; most likely an ex-slave, knowing just how fucked that place is. No idea the class.

Draconians are superior in every way, especially once Don Perrin started writing stories about them.

I'm taking a look at some of the lore and designs for them, and... yeah, the Draconians do, genuinely, look and sound significantly more badass than the Dragonborn. Why'd the writers not use the Draconian lore? The built-in dead man's switch feature sounds more interesting than a breath weapon, frankly.

A dozen archmages, twenty mages, and an ancient brass dragon would not be trivial for four high-level adventurers.

Genuine question; how would you suggest a party take them on? I actually really do want to hear this; curious about the different strategies different groups of players use.

They don't belong in classic settings. Don't care otherwise.

Another question: what do you mean by "classic" settings? I admit that I got into DnD a lot later than just about everyone else here, so I'm still catching up on a few things.

There's certain games that they just don't belong in so I never understood why they were ever a core race. I'm guessing people kept telling wizards how cool it would be to play a dragon and wizards used this as a compromise.

From what I can tell, that basically is the reason; people wanted a playable dragon race, so Wizards used these guys.

@Ghostse I do agree that they don't fit every setting compared to other races, and I feel like the writers could've made playing as a dragon significantly more awesome; the draconians mentioned above sound cool.

 

[robobobo]

I had a perfectly good time with a dragonborn back in 4e since they get a con bonus and infernal warlocks were con-based. Made an evil white dragon Tiamat worshiper built like a brick shithouse running around blowing people up and being a fucker. Half-dragons are fantasy-ish sufficiently to me to not really find them disruptive to most fantasy worlds, but obviously your mileage may vary on that. If there was any sort of pushback from the DM or other players I'd have simply tossed him and gone with another idea, wasn't going to die on that hill.

 

[King Dead]

An archmage in 5e is basically a 17th-level wizard, while a Mage is a 9th-level wizard. An ancient brass dragon is CR 20. A dozen archmages, twenty mages, and an ancient brass dragon would not be trivial for four high-level adventurers. What the writers here did is give the DM an official deus machina of "and then a whole bunch of wizards appear and all cast Fireball at once and you die."

Yeah, a direct assault by just an adventuring party would probably fail if all the magic users showed up at once and dropped a bomb on them, so you'd have to get more creative. This thread had a bit of a discussion on how to defeat it (along with copious mockery of wokeshit), and it pointed out something I hadn't noticed on my earlier cursory glance:

Once a Speaker no longer holds office, they lose the powers related to their position. If a Speaker steps down before the end of their term or dies while in office, all basic necessities in the Radiant Citadel gradually cease to function. Unless a suitable replacement for that Speaker is elected and approved by the Dawn Incarnates within thirty days, plants in the Radiant Citadel stop growing, wells run dry, and lighting ceases to function. Similarly, a Speaker cannot leave the Radiant Citadel for more than thirty days before the city's basic utilities begin to fail.

Speakers for the Ancestors are often celebrated heroes capable of handling most danger that comes their way, yet they are so vital to the integrity of the Radiant Citadel that each is carefully protected, both magically and by contingents of guards.

So in addition to preventing the shield from being operated, killing a Speaker eventually causes the entire citadel to stop functioning. On top of that, the process of electing a new Speaker not only requires the population to choose a candidate, they also have to undergo tests by these crystal entities before they can take office, which could be as simple as some questions or as complex as going off on a quest.

So, a party skilled at deception and infiltration could conceivably take out at least one Speaker (the more the better), replace them with simulacrums to avoid detection immediately, and then simply wait for the city to begin weakening before launching their assault. Hell, they could even position themselves as saviors by showing just how stupid this whole system is and get the population to rise up against the hippies.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

I'm taking a look at some of the lore and designs for them, and... yeah, the Draconians do, genuinely, look and sound significantly more badass than the Dragonborn. Why'd the writers not use the Draconian lore? The built-in dead man's switch feature sounds more interesting than a breath weapon, frankly.

WotC has always had a hate boner for Weis & Hickman and their creation process was rather setting specific. And I don't even mean that they are mechanically superior, I'm just talking about culture/story. Dragonborn have NOTHING, they are just a pile of stats. Draconians, on the other hand, are a new creation that was birthed from an unholy rite and went straight from egg to soldiers in a war. Then the war ended, their side lost, and they are desperately trying to find some niche where they won't be ruthlessly hunted down and murdered, which was further compounded by the fact that they were facing extinction due to a total lack of females (this was eventually resolved) and they've only been around long enough that don't even know what their lifespan is because none of them have died of old age yet. You have a regimented, militaristic society similar to hobgoblins without the Maglubiyet baggage.

On another note, there's no Tabaxi hate in my group because every member is a cat person and we have no furries. Any degenerate catgirl shit is worked out in a yearly Maid RPG session which is done for laughs.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

You know people that can play Maid RPG without being unfunny fucked-up losers or belong on a sex offender registry? Damn I envy you.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

Starting another Traveller campaign, character creation has helped cure my min-maxing addiction as you have very little control and have to deal with what the dice give you.

Playing an ex-detective who was fired after his last investigation led to important people. He's now taking up a bodyguard gig (The first job that is how all the PCs meet) so he can make money to support his family.

 

[Waifuchu]

what about Lizardfolk, Harengon, Aarakocra, Minotuar, etc.? Been a while since I dipped into the DnD community.

I played in a campaign where a guy rolled up a minotaur. He was totally chill and didn't intentionally do anything degenerate... But he decided to try and stealthily tail an enemy NPC in hopes of tracking the guy to his lair, only for it to end up with the NPC taking a piss while the minotaur was stuck in a bush a couple feet away, and forever after, the poor guy carried a reputation as a gay furry who loves to watch men at the urinal. (He had a good sense of humor about it.)

 

[Kyle Parson]

How would y'all balance the D&D 3.5th edition classes, you can't ban any of the core classes or anything from tiers 5 and 6, npc classes can be ignored.

 

[The Ugly One]

Another question: what do you mean by "classic" settings? I admit that I got into DnD a lot later than just about everyone else here, so I'm still catching up on a few things.

AD&D 1e settings, or anything going for that classic late 70s/80s feel. The basic conceit of all those early settings is that the world is a human world. Demi-humans (elves, gnomes, etc) are around in varying density, depending on the setting, but not the stars of the show. Fantasy Star Wars Cantina, which is what the Forgotten Realms has become, came much later. Spelljammer and Planescape are 2e settings where that sort of approach makes sense.

So, a party skilled at deception and infiltration could conceivably take out at least one Speaker (the more the better), replace them with simulacrums to avoid detection immediately

You need a very, very compliant DM. Simulacrum takes 12 hours to cast. And then you need the DM to agree that the 12 17th-level wizards who protect the place aren't doing anything you'd expect a 17th-level wizard to do, like scry on the strangers that showed up one day. This is in addition to the DM agreeing that somehow, your party has made it to 18th level or so doing wicked deeds, like murdering entire urban populations, without gaining the attention of 17th-level wizards in the world. And then you have to have the DM to agree that once SHTF, they don't all 12 show up at once with their 20 9th-level buddies in tow, just as the book says they will, neutralize everything you try to do with counterspell, and spam fireball at you until you die.

 

[Gingervitis]

what do you mean by "classic" settings? I admit that I got into DnD a lot later than just about everyone else here, so I'm still catching up on a few things.

Since I’m a gay retard autist, I personally sort D&D settings into four different categories

1. Classic Era: Needs no introduction. Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Pelinore, Lankhmar. The formative D&D settings, usually consisting of anything made before 2e.
2. Experimental Era: These are the more experimental settings that came about during 2e. They often played with the idea of a typical D&D setting in unique ways. Ravenloft was a gothic horror setting. Jakandor was a war between violent barbarians and evil necromancers. Spelljammer was a spacefaring setting, Planescape had you regularly hopping planes. So on and so forth.
3. Neo-Experimental Era: These are the settings made in 3e and 4e. Dragon Fist, Eberron, Mahasarpa, Ghostwalk, Rokugan, and Points of Light are the only ones I can find that were (officially) made for this era, and with the exception of Eberron, nobody talks about them. Still, they’re good settings if you can somehow convert them to your edition of choice, and I like how experimental they are. I even like how Points of Light acts as a callback to the Classic D&D settings.
4. Goyslop Era: This is the 5e era, defined by the sheer glut of licensed settings. This consists of the MtG settings (Ravinca, Theros, and Strixhaven), the Critical Role settings (Exandria and Wildemount), Radiant Citadel, Acquisitions Incorporated, Rick and Morty, and Stranger Things. While there’s nothing inherently wrong with licensed settings (see Lankhmar and Rokugan), I just listed every single official 5e setting.