Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Re(Runner)48]

@Re(Runner)48 hey, I can't reply or quote you so I thought I'd just tag you and ask of i could do fanart of your Octavia design? I'm in love with it. (Can't guarantee it'll be like the hazbin style tho)

Go ahead any style you choose I'm cool with I would love to see what you make

 

[The tired cat]

Alright I'm planning to do a redo soon, thinking of someone to do. I already have a few in mind and did some concept art of tons of different characters at work and doing a small amount of writing. Now its just polishing.
Which would you guys like to see coming up?

-Mammon
-Vaggie
-Glitz/Glam
-Crimson
-Chaz
-Lute
-Adam
I'm still planning on doing them of course just going to focus on a more preferred character to finalize a design.

Also so far which do people like the most? I want to get a gadge of what others think sticks out on the character, and to hone in what makes a design pop out and or makes them demonically iconic. Standard stuff to work on with shape language of these characters. As I am making sure each one has something to differentiate from one another adding different body types, sizes, and making a prominent feature stick out.

With Vaggie it depends if you're gonna go with her old background or the current one. 'Cause, current wise I think it def needs to show that she was a former exterminator (like seriously, I dont buy it that she wouldn't have lots of battle scars from training or fights)

 

[Catboi]

With Vaggie it depends if you're gonna go with her old background or the current one. 'Cause, current wise I think it def needs to show that she was a former exterminator (like seriously, I dont buy it that she wouldn't have lots of battle scars from training or fights)

I miss her just being some 2010's emo girl. Sigh.

 

[The Nothingness]

Alright I'm planning to do a redo soon, thinking of someone to do. I already have a few in mind and did some concept art of tons of different characters at work and doing a small amount of writing. Now its just polishing.
Which would you guys like to see coming up?

-Mammon
-Vaggie
-Glitz/Glam
-Crimson
-Chaz
-Lute
-Adam
I'm still planning on doing them of course just going to focus on a more preferred character to finalize a design.

Also so far which do people like the most? I want to get a gadge of what others think sticks out on the character, and to hone in what makes a design pop out and or makes them demonically iconic. Standard stuff to work on with shape language of these characters. As I am making sure each one has something to differentiate from one another adding different body types, sizes, and making a prominent feature stick out.

I am leaning towards Vaggie since this thread has discussed how her original design and character was wasted potential.

I take it Husk and Loona will be dead last in the redesigns since they are furbait.

 

[didelphigina]

Really I just hate the idea of this being yet another moment of a western series "appreciating" anime while showing a bunch of surface level tropes and gags that read more as contempt for the medium.

Western cartoonists when you ask them to work with an anime reference that isn't a surface level trope riddled with references to popular anime that's been done a thousand times.

 

[Stumbling7]

Spoiler: meme dumb 55

 

[Re(Runner)48]

Even if she did, 50s anime visually was way too different from the pre-conceptions of modern anime that most people have and yet the leak is more in line with this modern view.

I definitely agree it would of been great to have an Astroboy styled anime, and fit her era better. It would also establish different time periods.

With Vaggie it depends if you're gonna go with her old background or the current one. 'Cause, current wise I think it def needs to show that she was a former exterminator (like seriously, I dont buy it that she wouldn't have lots of battle scars from training or fights)

With some of Charlie's writing I established Vaggie being an exterminator to fit Medranos current "archs". I'd like to think in heaven they don't get harmed from their weapons as one cannot be hurt in Heaven, and are thus seen as "invincible". When they departure from heaven they are more vulnerable from exposure of hells environment which they absorb and adapt to their environment.

If they are there for an extended period of time could be at risk at becoming demons themselves. As the idea of angels and demons are both the same has been theorized in holy books. And Lucifer himself is a fallen angel (first demon). Hence why their weapons can hurt them as they are further away from God's light, and thus are losing God's protection.
Vaggie herself would be a fallen angel and going through a metamorphosis to becoming a demon. (Tons of body horror and mind warping)

Western cartoonists when you ask them to work with an anime reference that isn't a surface level trope riddled with references to popular anime that's been done a thousand times.

It makes them come off as uncultured and unintentionally racist. Like look Japanese culture HUR DUR SUSHI ANIME CHOPSTICKS SAMURAI CHINCHING

I take it Husk and Loona will be dead last in the redesigns since they are furbait.

Yeah, and more like I personally they are some of the worst characters action wise. An abusive BPD sociopath leeching dog WOMAN (not teenager) who uses their own abuse as leverage. And a ex slaver who probably killed/exploited/abused and more who is a self centered, self destructive sociopath.

Both are written extremely similar.

Drinking problem.
Antisocial and don't interact with the gang too much.
Entitlement issues.
Have a big moment scene where they tell someone suffering from trauma and abuse. Both don't listen or understand the person, and dismisses/disregards their situation. Only difference is one has a catchy shitty song that calls the victim "a whiny bitch"

 

[LucasSomething]

The comments are obviously a mixed bag.

I like how one person says "Stella negative emotions are not an excuse" and right below someone lists Stolas negative emotions and use them as excuses.

Though speaking of stuff related to angelic weapons, its still really weird that despite Vaggie sustaining permanent damage from them by Adam and Lute, she never thought angelic weapons could harm angels until like near the end of the Season, is she stupid?

Carmila literally asks Vaggie if she knew angels could be harmed by angel weapons and she says no.

There are multiple cope headcanons about it like "Vagie wrongly assumed only Angels could do it and not the weapon itself", "vagie thought she became a sinner and became vulnerable to weapons" or she was "too traumatized to think about it".

The whole idea that not even Adam knew is stretchy at best. You have to assume absurd things like no exterminator ever got cut by accident or during sparring. You would also think someone picking a dropped weapon and fighting back (better than die without trying) would've happened sooner.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

You would also think someone picking a dropped weapon and fighting back (better than die without trying) would've happened sooner.

A good writer would have Vaggie inform Carmilla she wasn't the first to wound/kill an Exorcist, just the first that managed to live to tell about it.

 

[LucasSomething]

A good writer would have Vaggie inform Carmilla she wasn't the first to wound/kill an Exorcist, just the first that managed to live to tell about it.

This creates a new problem tho, if exorcists know then the finale fight changes. Carmilla really hammers that "The exorcists have no sense of self preservation and are retarded" (despite only ever killing 1) as this is necessary to convey why they become jobbers to be fodderized and (literally) dropping like flies.

It's really a shitty bad writing / plot hole that needs to exist to justify more bad writing.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

This creates a new problem tho, if exorcists know then the finale fight changes. Carmilla really hammers that "The exorcists have no sense of self preservation and are retarded" (despite only ever killing 1) as this is necessary to convey why they become jobbers to be fodderized and (literally) dropping like flies.

It's really a shitty bad writing / plot hole that needs to exist to justify more bad writing.

The only way this could be fixed is if Viv actually had the guts to kill off some characters for real. Pentious got redeemed, Razzle/Dazzle aren't even characters to the extent I dare anyone to name which one died without looking it up, and even Adam is coming back because Lute went schitzo.

Have the battle be built up over the later half of S2, involve most of the recurring characters, much more cannon fodder than just a bunch of cannibals, add the personal involvement of a couple Overlords that people might give a damn about such as Zestial, and kill some of them off. Even with all this extra help, the Hotel still loses until Adam announces he's going to kill Charlie and allows Lucifer to get involved.

I'd still prefer if Exorcists were portrayed as unstoppable and enigmatic dealers of death like they were in the pilot though.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Alright I'm planning to do a redo soon, thinking of someone to do. I already have a few in mind and did some concept art of tons of different characters at work and doing a small amount of writing. Now its just polishing.
Which would you guys like to see coming up?

-Mammon
-Vaggie
-Glitz/Glam
-Crimson
-Chaz
-Lute
-Adam
I'm still planning on doing them of course just going to focus on a more preferred character to finalize a design.

Also so far which do people like the most? I want to get a gadge of what others think sticks out on the character, and to hone in what makes a design pop out and or makes them demonically iconic. Standard stuff to work on with shape language of these characters. As I am making sure each one has something to differentiate from one another adding different body types, sizes, and making a prominent feature stick out.

Here are some ideas/ what I would do for each character:

Mammon - I saw someone mentioning that Mammon should have been a fat cat, and I can't disagree. Besides the obvious symbolism with Greed, I think you could get a lot of great expressions with a cat face and fits well with the emotive personality he has. Also, make sure he looks...well fat. At least in his first appearance, he looked like a skinny guy wearing a wide robe.

Vaggie - Since I've read you were keeping the "Vaggie was an Exorcist" for your redesign, main thing I would want is that she should look different from when she's still an Exorcist to when she's cast out to Hell. It annoyed me to death when she takes off her exorcist mask and the only thing that was changed was that her hair was short. Like why does Adam and Lute have regular skin tone and yellow eyes, but Vaggie has gray skin and pink sclera when she was in Heaven? If all Exorcists were created, wouldn't they look relatively the same as one another for uniformity? She should have a brighter, cleaner color pallete for when she was in Heaven, and then it becomes duller and greyed-out when she's in Hell to show a change in not just in her appearance but world-view. And her outfit; please be anything but "McDonald's manager uniform".

Glitz/Glam - I'd say something similar to their beatboard designs. They actually look more like clowns/jester (I say jester too because Mammon and Fizzaroli resemble jesters more than clowns, but I guess Viv can't tell the difference) than what we got in the actual show, and I assume they changed the designs because it's easier to animate.


Crimson - Similar to Glitz and Glam, look to the beatboard. He actually looks more like an intimidating mob boss here and not just another Moxxie. Plus we need more muscular men in these shows.


Chaz - My main issue with Chaz is his personality really. You think he's going to have more depth after the flashback Moxxie has of him, where the animation of Chaz showing his expression that he regrets leaving Moxxie behind like that to the cops. But no. He's just "haha horny and stupid". So, yeah, just fix his personality and have his design reflect on that.

Lute - I'm actually not too bothered with Lute's design. The worst that I can think of it is that it may be too basic? I remember when it was mentioned way back that a Sinner's form is more monstrous/animalistic/non-human depending on how bad their sin was when they were alive. So angels looking more like humans made sense to me. I feel like all the exorcist should look similar to each other when they have their masks off to show a soldier-like mentality and that they all have the same worldview.

Adam - Like Lute, I don't mind Adam's design. It's just that his personality doesn't scream "first ever man to exist and is over thousands of years old". (This is also just a problem with Viv's characters that the majority of them act like they're teens and/or young adults, even if they're over a millenia old.) Adam should have been a more mature, nuance character. At worst, he's jaded and stubborn in his ways. For as long as he knows, no soul from Hell has ever been redeemed to get to Heaven, so why should that change just because the princess of Hell believes to be the case? Maybe he himself doesn't want to exterminate the people in Hell since they are technically his children, part of his lineage, but he has to follow what the higher-ups tell him and that this is best for Heaven. Maybe he looks tired and gruff, like the pitch version when we just knew him as the General of the Exterminations.

Anyway, these are just suggestions and ideas that I had. You don't have to use any of them; they were just thoughts on how I would design these characters.

 

[Lyre]

@Re(Runner)48 thanks for letting me play with your redesign! I appreciate it

edit: i couldn't figure out how to make the og necklace work so I did it a little different, I hope you don't mind

Spoiler: It's big, so I'm spoilering it

 

[The tired cat]

I'd still prefer if Exorcists were portrayed as unstoppable and enigmatic dealers of death like they were in the pilot though.

There was this theory way back, how those masks is what controlled the exorcists, thus helping ignore all the horrors they face or commit, combined with letting them ignore pain or loss of their comrades.

 

[Re(Runner)48]

@Re(Runner)48 thanks for letting me play with your redesign! I appreciate it

edit: i couldn't figure out how to make the og necklace work so I did it a little different, I hope you don't mind

Spoiler: It's big, so I'm spoilering it

View attachment 7101948

She looks STUNNING. Great job.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

There was this theory way back, how those masks is what controlled the exorcists, thus helping ignore all the horrors they face or commit, combined with letting them ignore pain or loss of their comrades.

You know, I could see that becoming canon. Because Vaggie spares that Sinner after she took her mask off.

Firstly, why did Vaggie pull her mask off in the first place? There's no need to reveal her face to the audience to show that the exorcist we're following in the flashback is Vaggie. Because this is her flashback. It would make more sense if her mask gets pulled or broken when Lute strips her of her heavenly status.

Secondly, you can not convince me that this is the first "child" Sinner that Vaggie has killed. According to Adam, Vaggie is one of his top girls, meaning she has exterminated countless of Sinners. That probably includes a few "children" in the mix. What made this one so different? Because it was afraid? Yeah, I'm pretty sure many Sinners showed that emotion when they're cornered by a weapon that will wipe them out of existence.

And finally, that "child" Sinner she spared. Technically, not a child anymore. Since they ended up in Hell in the early 1900s and Vaggie has been in Hell for only three years after being cast out, we can safely say that kid is over a hundred years old. Unless the age that you die at is what you stay as mentally in Hell...which now I'm not sure which one I would consider better. Essentially an adult in a child's body, or the mental capacity of a kid that stays forever? God damn it Viv, why did you decide to have kids in Hell? I don't think you're ready to answer the many concerning implications this might have. Especially with your track record.

 

[Re(Runner)48]

Viv, why did you decide to have kids in Hell? I don't think you're ready to answer the many concerning implications this might have. Especially with your track record.

Funny thing is she in a stream stated kids can't go to hell. And that sinners can't have children, thus this means Viv just forget her rules (which is entirely possible) or that cannibals are actually hellborn those are the only explanations.

 

[Lyre]

She looks STUNNING. Great job.

Hey thanks! That means a lot, really helped bust up some of my artists block, so thanks for that!

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Funny thing is she in a stream stated kids can't go to hell. And that sinners can't have children, thus this means Viv just forget her rules (which is entirely possible) or that cannibals are actually hellborn those are the only explanations.

Or that sinner was a midget pretending to be a child and Vaggie has the IQ of a toaster.

 

[The tired cat]

Funny thing is she in a stream stated kids can't go to hell. And that sinners can't have children, thus this means Viv just forget her rules (which is entirely possible) or that cannibals are actually hellborn those are the only explanations.

Im pretty sure you can start a drinkinh game out of how many times Viv forgot her own rules. Really, that scene was just made as a cheap move, like you could have easily replaced that kid with maybe say an injured sinner who begs for mercy. Hell, if we go with that mask fan theory, why not make it happen how her mask gets damaged and thus she sees the horrors happening around her, an sees this injuted sinner not trying to fight back even.