US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/

 

[Fapcop]

Go get ‘em big Don!

 

[6MillionCoofs]

This auto pen shit is reaching Qanon levels of delusional

If it is, then that means Biden staffers are delusional

If the Orange Man doesn't at least take this to the courts to get an actual ruling on this, setting to bed whether or not staffers can just forge your signature because you're too tired to hold a pen or whatever

You don’t beed to go to court to figure that answer out. The answer is they are not allowed to sign shit. President is too gone to sign shit and have power is why you even have a VP. Random people are not afforded that power.

But Trump will go to court, he has never not.

 

[raspberry mocha]

Forget morning, it's springtime in America.

 

[NSA Intern]

>retard flailing and making boomer rants

throwing HAYMAKERS

God i wonder what its like to be this stupid.

You don't have to wonder, you're an anime avatar

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

It will be telling which pardons are defended, and how hard, and which pardons are largely ignored.
This is all assuming that Biden isn't aware of, and possibly even complicit in, overturning the pardons, perhaps with the exception of Hunter.
Maybe Joe said to Trump, "I'll help you find those traitors in my campaign that used my dementia against me, as long as Hunter stays pardoned."

Will they be overturned? Probably not. Does it matter? No. The cockroaches that scattered under the fridge are in for a shock when it moves and the spotlight is put on them. With nowhere left to run, it's time for the boot to come down and the exterminators to come in.

 

[Rykel22]

Even in the worst case(from Trump's POV), this eats up time and resources to fight and takes attention away from other things.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

If it is, then that means Biden staffers are delusional

You don’t beed to go to court to figure that answer out. The answer is they are not allowed to sign shit. President is too gone to sign shit and have power is why you even have a VP. Random people are not afforded that power.

But Trump will go to court, he has never not.

He won't need to go to court, the court will come to him. I expect a TRO by noon from a Judge here on a green card that prohibits Trump from suggesting Biden didn't sign everything personally.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Given how the Inspectors General didn't find us giving 5 billion dollars to the Starving Albinos of Oingoboingo to teach them Lesbian Interpretive dance from an Neo-Islamic perspective and other insane shit Elon has found just from being "a complete retard looking in with zero knowledge of how things work" he was probably justified in firing those fuckers.

Inspector Generals don’t do that. Their job is not to say whether a project is wasteful but to detect if the contractors or government employees are committing fraud or wasteful spending.

And if the problem is that we were spending on unnecessary foreign aid projects, why remove IGs from other departments and only remove the USAID IG weeks later? Especially after he points out that the foreign aid freeze wasted nearly half a billion dollars in food aid.

 

[The Honkler Cometh]

The craziest fucking thing is that they literally CANNOT CONTEST HIS REASONING because it all hinges on the competence (and continence) of Biden.

If they contest then it goes to court. The only way they can convincingly prove that Biden was the one who signed a pardon is if they happen to have photographic evidence of the deed, or if the man himself testifies. And his brains are surely mashed potatoes by now, which even friendly questioning on the stand will draw out.
The side fighting for the pardons can bring out as many aides, allies and staffers as they want, but every single one of those people has a vested interest in covering their ass when it comes to Biden's senility because they were all fucking complicit in the lies propping up his Weekend at Bernies'-ass regime.

 

[oh no its pipkun]

Remember, one of the tricks they did to Trump was spying on him illegally.

Imagine if he is spying on them, watching them freak out and try and find out what he might have found out... incriminating themselves all the way. The cover up is always worse than the crime, yeah?

DOGE is the government's IT, basically. So they'd have access to

Teams chats
SMS messages
Email archives
Web history
Other apps, potentially -- signal, telegram...

On all devices that run any basic bitch security software. And if corporations mandate that software just to get your work email, I can guarantee you the fedboys do. I wonder if the feboys kept their government issued phones (or laptops) after leaving. I mean, Trump could have been nice and let them, or "accidentally" forgot to ask for them back. Which would still have that software on it. Which would still be recording everything they do on them, including desperately trying to find out this morning who ratted them out, or what he found out and how.

the biden boys may be pardoned but that doesn't mean the DOJ cant investigate and publish a report on the crimes they're pardoned for.

 

[AnthonyLoggerhead]

Joe Biden getting cross examined on the stand to find out if he signed all those pardons? Put that shit on pay per view & that’s the 2026 defense spending budget settled

 

[Meat Target]

I distinctly remember floating this as an idea of something Trump should do just to prove a point, not thinking he'd actually do it.

This is unprecedented. The Crystal Meatball has predicted not only good news, but lulzy news at that. God speed, ya crazy orange bastard. Go for the (metaphorical) jugular.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

For anyone saying "he's not overturning them, he's nullifying them" it doesn't matter, there is literally no avenue anywhere in any of our foundational documents that allows for anything to happen to a presidential pardon once it has been executed. Nothing can be done to it.

There is absolutely no law on this subject. It would need to literally be built de novo, from the ground up. One would need to establish standing to even challenge something, let along nullify it. Just the issue of standing to even bring a challenge of a presidential pardon would need to be established, and ultimately the SCOTUS would likely have to take it up and decide if standing could be established. If standing could be established, to have even the slightest chance to challenge a presidential pardon one would need to prove that the president didn't actually grant the pardon. You'd need evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" of a massive conspiracy to issue pardon's that were not granted by the president. Evidence that rises to that level just isn't likely to exist. People don't seem to understand that when a legal pathway doesn't exist you can't just will it into existence. Even the president can't do that. There is an entire process that needs to occur.

The only thing you may have right is that it would be a novel legal problem. I have not done the case law research but pardons are a common law instrument, meaning that there may be something out there from state law or from English law about this specific issue.

Your standing analysis is horseshit. Standing is the easiest thing to establish in this circumstance—the DOJ would just have to attempt to prosecute someone who has been pardoned. After that, assuming there's no on point case law, what would result could be an analysis based on various laws dealing with ascertaining the effect of legal document. So, for example, there are various standards of proof required to say that a testamentary document (a will) should be nullified because it is fraudulent. Many states require clear and convincing evidence to overturn a testamentary document. As pardons are construed very similarly to other legal documents, like wills or contracts, I would hazard that the basic legal principles would come from those areas of law. The mere fact that someone else signed is not controlling—the law allows for use of an amanuensis or even digital signatures. But intent and capacity would be at issue.

You wouldn't need "evidence 'beyond a reasonable doubt'" because this isn't a criminal proceeding attempting to show guilt.

It's probably more complicated than this because you have to throw in principles like federalism and certain levels of deference to the executive. Courts generally aren't supposed to get involved in certain aspects of executive power because of the deference to the executive in specific areas and because it's not a good idea for the judiciary to get involved there. This is a long established internal restraint on the judicial power. The issue for people who hate Trump is that the lower courts have completely done away with that in recent years because le evil orange man bad. In 1945 no court would seriously try to commandeer an immigration flight deporting foreign criminals while the flight is in midair because it breaks all principles of equity jurisprudence, federalism, and deference to the executive in carrying out immigration law. But because of crazy TDS retards, that door has been opened entirely in other areas.

I don't think it's a good idea for Trump to try this angle unless he has real proof that Biden did not have capacity to do this or did not execute the instruments (including execution at his will, i.e. someone else being clearly directed to do it). But you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[marvlouslie]

I'm willing to bet that Biden didn't have any fucking clue about the pardons given how out of it he was during the last few months of his term.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

What if we send Faucci to China?

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Sounds like you agree with him, retard.

>Can't read sarcasm
>Calls someone who can a retard

 

[Ralph Barnhardt]

You don’t beed to go to court to figure that answer out. The answer is they are not allowed to sign shit. President is too gone to sign shit and have power is why you even have a VP. Random people are not afforded that power.

Yeah. Yeah you do. I'm pretty sure this is brand new territory that has never been trod upon. I know it's wrong, you know it's wrong, all of DC may know it's wrong but how do we over turn a presidential pardon? Is there even a mechanism for it? How do the courts recognize that a presidential pardon in null and void? What happens if some shit federal judge refuses to ignore the pardon? These need to be answered and I do not want some sort of executive order erasing it because the executive order system that we've been living under is part of the reason we're in the shit mess we're in right now. I just don't want to spend another few years listening to talk/complain/scream about this like it's the 2020 election all over again.

But Trump will go to court, he has never not.

I really hope he does. I really, truly hope he does.

I'm willing to bet that Biden didn't have any fucking clue about the pardons given how out of it he was during the last few months of his term.

The pardons also included really weird things like pardoning the judges from the Kids for Cash scandal in Pennsylvania who got kickbacks for sending kids to private prisons.

There was absolutely no reason to do that. It makes no sense even if you do include the dementia.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

I assume it's something to do with accusations that an aide did indeed use the Autopen to sign a bunch of stupid shit.

https://nypost.com/2025/03/14/us-ne...-as-biden-aides-murmur-about-possible-misuse/

I honestly don't believe that a cognitively alert Biden would have done something as insane as sign pre-pardons for key personnel. That sounds much more like the kind of people who would lie about the president having dementia for 4 years.

BUT Trump is in risky territory here, even if it's just for the meme. Who's to say the next president won't invalidate his pardons because one or two of his aides used an Autopen?

Trump signs things on camera with sparklers and hookers dancing around. No autopen.

 

[Daniel Wallace]

Trump should have a staffer sign a pardon or a bill with an autopen and see what happens. Have the staffer do it on camera in front of witnesses. See if people accept that, or claim it isn't valid since Trump didn't sign it.

 

[TarragonRespecter]

Biden could just come out and say "Nope, I did it Jack" and that would be that. However, maybe he's not feeling so inclined to help after the primary coup. It would be so fucking hilarious if these guys got hoisted by their own retard

Good luck getting him to coherently speak a full sentence. This isn't 2021 Biden, Jack. Cornpop pumped his hairy legs full of so many meds it has been reduced to an even mushier consistency than if he lost the 2020 election. I think him beeing seen in public now would just bring unwanted scrutiny

...do you think that a president is required to manually write his name for it to be legal?

Yes. Are you retarded? If he's not writing it himself it's called forgery and it is very illegal to do that.