US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/

 

[TarragonRespecter]

that a legal instrument can be executed by directing someone to sign something.

Retard nigger. He would need to be directing people. This is about people using his signature for things he didn't direct them to sign.

 

[Rykel22]

Trump’s first term was a mixed bag—he made a lot of noise but didn’t get as much done as his supporters had hoped. I kind of always assumed he was trying to play a bit nicer for a second term. But I think it's wild watching him just go completely apeshit and glass the fucking earth this time around and go for blood after everyone who was fucking around and playing games with him in round one. He got his second term and he doesn't have to worry about reelection anymore. We're gonna see establishment libshits strung up in trees by the end of his fourth year I swear to fucking God.

A lot of his first term mehness was him assuming he could cut a deal with the dems and the Rinos. Only to learn the dems would fight to the death to oppose him and the Rinos would subvert his good will to get their people into power to stymie him.

 

[John.Doe]

This is a political move. The pardons will hold up but what this does is let Trump's DOJ lay out in detail all the crimes these people committed and then force the Dems to not only defend them but argue these people must be allowed to get away with it while shining a big spotlight on Biden's mental fitness during the last year.

Its obviously a political move, and not a bad one. Whats the risk, that they call him a tyrant, idiot, or a combination of the above? Send another assassin? No tactic is off the table when your opposition has escalated so far. So whats the benefits? No matter if its Win, Lose or Draw this tactic is worth the effort.

Win - This opens up huge avenues of attack and potential political threat. He doesn't have to actually convict anyone, just the ability to threaten them with it creates a lot of leverage.
Lose - If the Courts start waxing poetically about how these pardons are sacrosanct (because muh Biden) then they're probably going to start talking about the plenary powers of the President. The arguments and logic they use to empower Biden are going to be directly applicable to the court cases Trump is in right now regarding judges trying to infringe on other plenary powers.
Draw - No matter what happens, its going to cause a lot of disruption in the Democratic party, embarrass everyone, drag out a lot of dirty laundry, distract from everything else he is doing, and force the current Democrat opposition to defend these pardons.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

Retard nigger. He would need to be directing people. This is about people using his signature for things he didn't direct them to sign.

Did you not literally read where I wrote "by directing someone to sign something"? Or how about a little bit later where I wrote:

I think his point is that people in the administration were using an autopen to effect their own policy decisions, not that the use of an autopen makes it void. But it is kind of retarded. Trump always says a little too much. Half of these legal challenges to his actions are predicated on something Trump says offhandedly or in addition to the action he takes.

Learn to read more than 240 characters at a time, retard.

 

[Levitcus prime24]

Massive massie says we should just let the pirates fuck our ships because of America first or something, god why are all these never trumpet retards so well retarded.

 

[JohnnyG]

Using an electric pen instead of his hand to make the signature makes no difference.

All biden needs to do is say " I totes approved that...i said the line where's my ice cream?" and it's over.

Biden could just come out and say "Nope, I did it Jack" and that would be that

There was significant legal debate around whether an order or law signed by a device is valid at all, because the Constitution specifically requires the President to sign.

From what I understand, the consensus settled on it being valid if done in his presence and at his direction, purely as a labor saving device, but definitely not if used independently. Given Biden's incoherence and the degree to which Prog string pullers were making decisions, it's almost certain the latter was the case.

Massive massie says we should just let the pirates fuck our ships because of America first or something

He's clearly saying the ships should not be there, because America's job is not to patrol every Third World shithole. Or do you prefer Forever Coast Guard and Forever Police to go with your Forever Wars?

 

[AspieNextDoor]

I nooooooooticed that not a single leftist rag I follow reported on Trump talking about Biden's pardons yet. Not the Guardian, not the NYT, even on Reddit I saw only a single post with only 4k updoots. You would think it would be a pretty big news, but no, not a single peep.

Really makes the noggin' joggin', doesn't it?

 

[Yaniv’s Hairy Balls]

But if the pardons were issued without Biden's knowing or approval then they are pretty much a forgery. The President has the power of pardon, not random staffers with an autopen.

I know exactly what you’re saying and what you mean, but the chances of ever proving that is so very slim.

The political class has a very different reality from the rest of us, even the ultra wealthy.. and Biden is both.

 

[Levitcus prime24]

There was significant legal debate around whether an order or law signed by a device is valid at all, because the Constitution specifically requires the President to sign.

From what I understand, the consensus settled on it being valid if done in his presence and at his direction, purely as a labor saving device, but definitely not if used independently. Given Biden's incoherence and the degree to which Prog string pullers were making decisions, it's almost certain the latter was the case.


He's clearly saying the ships should not be there, because America's job is not to patrol every Third World shithole. Or do you prefer Forever Coast Guard and Forever Police to go with your Forever Wars?

Does it come with forever fries?

 

[TarragonRespecter]

I know exactly what you’re saying and what you mean, but the chances of ever proving that is so very slim.

The political class has a very different reality from the rest of us, even the ultra wealthy.. and Biden is both.

I don't think anyone is after Biden. It would look terrible to go after a former president even if he went after your first. However, the Jan 6th committe, I think more people would be okay with that than you care to think

 

[BikeLock]

The use of the Autopen for official duties was always wrong, and its time to stop pretending that it wasn't.

If the President can't use his own hand to put his own signature on it, it shouldn't get done. I don't care if it means that his hand falls off, that just means that there is WAY too much shit for him to sign, shit that probably shouldn't get done. It will force the executive to prioritize shit that he wants done, which is what a good executive should already be doing.

 

[Collections Agent]

Former Trump voter here. There is no plan. Trump is just insane. He’s tearing up alliances to help support Putin, his supporters have this insane idea that protesting at a Tesla station is terrorism, and the economy is collapsing while innocent citizens are getting disappeared in foreign nations without due process because they’re just brown.

For anyone saying "he's not overturning them, he's nullifying them" it doesn't matter, there is literally no avenue anywhere in any of our foundational documents that allows for anything to happen to a presidential pardon once it has been executed. Nothing can be done to it.

There is absolutely no law on this subject. It would need to literally be built de novo, from the ground up. One would need to establish standing to even challenge something, let along nullify it. Just the issue of standing to even bring a challenge of a presidential pardon would need to be established, and ultimately the SCOTUS would likely have to take it up and decide if standing could be established. If standing could be established, to have even the slightest chance to challenge a presidential pardon one would need to prove that the president didn't actually grant the pardon. You'd need evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" of a massive conspiracy to issue pardon's that were not granted by the president. Evidence that rises to that level just isn't likely to exist. People don't seem to understand that when a legal pathway doesn't exist you can't just will it into existence. Even the president can't do that. There is an entire process that needs to occur.

Guys I hate to be the arbiter of common sense here but if the president didn't sign the pardons, they aren't valid.

If Trump is doing this there is a 99.9% chance he has evidence that's the case and is waiting on people to escalate so he can slam dunk them with it.

"Drumpf is totally dumb and finished this time" has been said for almost 10 years now and it's been wrong 100% of the time, so like keep saying it if it makes you feel better, but realize there's a pattern here and it's not going great in your favor if you think he's just doing random unconstitutional nonsense cause it funnie.

 

[The Last Stand]

This is all fucking retarded and a waste of time and taxpayer money. Autopen has been used by Presidents since at least Thomas Jefferson, who was a big fan.

They had automated pens or signature stencils back in the day?

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Democrats started targeting their political opponents with lawfare.

Already happened, and not just with Trump. Obama had the IRS specifically target Tea Party supporters.

 

[Levitcus prime24]

Former Trump voter here. There is no plan. Trump is just insane. He’s tearing up alliances to help support Putin, his supporters have this insane idea that protesting at a Tesla station is terrorism, and the economy is collapsing while innocent citizens are getting disappeared in foreign nations without due process because they’re just brown.

“Tearing up alliances to help support putin” whats the alternative going to war with a nuclear power, sending American troops to go die in a European land war?
“Protesting a tesla station is terrorism” setting expensive cars on fire and burning shit isn't protest and attacking people who do have a tesla also isn't protest that's assult at best. “Econemy is collapsing” on no the precious gay stonks line has gone down what will I do now. “While innocent civilians are getting disappeared in for he in countires” those innocent civilians committed a crime eby crossing the border illegally. Cut the bullshit about being a former trump voter, you are either a bot or just retarted.

 

[he who has thus come/gone]

He's clearly saying the ships should not be there, because America's job is not to patrol every Third World shithole. Or do you prefer Forever Coast Guard and Forever Police to go with your Forever Wars?

Commercial ships from any nation should be able to travel anywhere in the high seas (as that term is legally used) without disturbance by literal fucking pirates. This has been commonly understood and agreed upon since before the Romans wiped out piracy from the Mediterranean, and every single people from every single time period in every part of the world have always hated pirates and killed them.

Are you really saying that commercial shipping should get around the globe by going around the Horn of Africa like it's 1840 because some inbred pedophile worshipping pirates with shoddy explosives have decided to flail around like retards, and there's nothing anyone can do about it? The only possible point you have raised that should be taken seriously is that it's not just up to us to deal with piracy—every single civilized country should be blowing up these people.

I hate admitting it but sometimes libertarian isolationists are the most retarded people in American politics. You are literally regressing us back to before organized civilizations if you think we shouldn't be killing pirates, who have been and always will be such scum of the earth that the legal phrase inherited from ancient Rome to describe them is hostis humani generis—the "enemy of mankind."

 

[Alabama Gamer]

Man, I picked the wrong day to quit Xitter, didn't I.

 

[Croaking Spider]

Massive massie says we should just let the pirates fuck our ships because of America first or something, god why are all these never trumpet retards so well retarded.

Thomas Massie can suck a dick. The U.S. Navy's entire original purpose and charter was specifically to fight pirates that were fucking with our merchant ships while demanding tribute.

For a fun little history aside for anyone interested, TheFatElectrian did a video on the Barbary Wars. He keeps it informative while entertaining at the same time. It's ironic that 225 years later we've come full-circle to muslims fucking with the boats.

 

[PC78]

Ya win some ya lose some.I don't think anything will come about at this pardon announcement. Sometimes I think Trump should not be as over the top and stay quiet sometimes.Overall excepting Ukraine and this I'm very happy with President Trump.

 

[Yaniv’s Hairy Balls]

I don't think anyone is after Biden. It would look terrible to go after a former president even if he went after your first. However, the Jan 6th committe, I think more people would be okay with that than you care to think

I thought it meant he was going after Hunter and Fauci, which were the last pardons he put out, right? I may be wrong, the last 4-6 months have been a whirlwind of political back and forth lol