Amazon's Invincible - thoughts?

[demicolon]

I don't recall why monster girl has a falling out with Rex

Partly because Rex is a psychopath incapable of forming emotional bonds with people, partly because the ousted noble line was assigned to slavery in the mines and Monster Girl goes all bleeding heart revolutionary for them, which infuriates Rex who mansplains to her why they deserved it and that they've used her, and she doesn't take it well.

 

[Cave Fisher]

Partly because Rex is a psychopath incapable of forming emotional bonds with people, partly because the ousted noble line was assigned to slavery in the mines and Monster Girl goes all bleeding heart revolutionary for them, which infuriates Rex who mansplains to her why they deserved it and that they've used her, and she doesn't take it well.

Goddamit, this Rex Rudy shit is already confusing me, because for a moment I thought you went full schizo until remembering oh right, that's exactly what happened.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Okay, I finished the comic. Spoilers will no longer work on me, but I shall not spread them to others. Got me pretty excited to see the last season when it's adapted in, like, 5 years.

 

[Sithis]

Partly because Rex is a psychopath incapable of forming emotional bonds with people, partly because the ousted noble line was assigned to slavery in the mines and Monster Girl goes all bleeding heart revolutionary for them, which infuriates Rex who mansplains to her why they deserved it and that they've used her, and she doesn't take it well.

Don't forget the

Spoiler

part where she ended up having a kid with the flaxan during her revolutionary arc and then she discovered that Robot knew the whole time and had actually ordered his flaxan minions to hunt down and murder the entire bloodline. I think that's what really seals the deal for her, prior to that she still seemed to have some love for Rudy, but after that she was fully ready to kill him and helped invincible do just that.

 

[Commander X]

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I swear every time a youtube short about the comic events comes out it's:
Character decides he is evil/good now. Someone start some shit and a ton of characters die (only one is important).
Mark gets heavily mutilated (he is okay by the next comic, or it was a clone).
NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME (nothing really changes).

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I've been seeing people glaze Cecil for being pragmatic, in the right, yadda yadda, and I'm going to set the record straight.

Cecil is a retard who unnecessarily escalated things with Mark to the point of a causing a huge brawl that lost him half of the Guardians of the Globe when he tried to murder Mark with his zombie army spun up by his pet ghoul Sinclair. This is supposed to be a guy who rehabilitated a bunch of super villains in prison, but he can't deescalate a disagreement with an outraged hero? That whole ambush in the white room was 100% Cecil's ego going on a power trip. He lectures Mark for being arrogant and unable to handle disagreements, right after he sic'd his zombie cyborgs on a Viltrumite for disagreeing with him.

The only way this falling out makes any kind of sense is if Cecil had decided that his zombie horde and evil Batman were good enough to handle major threats and he didn't need Mark anymore and just wanted to kill him out of spite for Nolan, or out of spite for needing Mark at all.

The way he arrived with a band of supers immediately after Mark had defeated Conquest and kept Conquest alive against Mark's wishes further proves my point. The only way taking Conquest as a prisoner makes any sense is if he just wanted to rob Mark of his only major victory. It would also explain why they didn't amputate any of Conquest's limbs, nor did they bother to equip his prison with any sonic weapons. Cecil wanted Conquest to escape and cause more problems, which would make Mark look incompetent and ineffective at dealing with real threats, and all the other security features he had were just theater. Everything about Cecil's behavior toward Mark is a slight-of-hand act of spite.

The only reason anybody likes Cecil is because he's an "uncompromising" hard-ass who regularly embraces necessary evils, all without realizing he only goes for necessary evil because he wields a degree of power over people like Darkwing and Sinclair, which in turn gives him power in situations where he's outclassed.

 

[God of Nothing]

Okay, I finished the comic. Spoilers will no longer work on me, but I shall not spread them to others. Got me pretty excited to see the last season when it's adapted in, like, 5 years.

they better be playing sorairo days during the final fight
i know i will

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

This entire video is insane. The whole point of it is to prove that Mark is a hypocrite for wanting criminals to be in jail because Mark is a murderer himself, but name me one person Mark had actually killed in all three seasons so far. Can't be Angstrom Levy, he's still alive. Can't be Conquest, Cecil saved him. This entire video is hinged on Mark having killed someone which he hadn't, unless you're Powerplex levels of retarded and pin the train scene where Nolan used Mark as a weapon on Mark somehow.

Even if Angstrom Levy were dead, that was a self defense situation against an unhinged enemy threatening Mark's immediate family, and Mark was fully justified in killing him. Mark didn't abduct people in the dead of night and perform Mengele experiments on them, and he's never killed petty criminals like Darkwing. There's a heap of nuance I'm expected to ignore in order for any of this to even begin making sense. Mark, on the other hand, is so reluctant to kill people that he almost gets killed by a female Viltrumite actively trying to kill him on the bug people planet.

She also keeps insisting that Mark is somehow excusing Nolan's mass murders when he never did. She keeps trying to use tribalism as a wedge to prove this point and it doesn't work because Mark has never said it was okay when Viltrumites kill people, he nearly died twice trying to stop them from doing just that.

I keep waiting for her to show a material example of Mark murdering people but it never happens. This whole video was a desperate exercise in straw grasping for a reason to tear down the hero because great man is terrible man, akshually.

 

[demicolon]

Cecil is a retard

Yeah, comic!Cecil, show!Cecil's personality has been changed from "pastiche of Walter Skinner from X-Files" to "actually we've been totally serious with that characterization, guys" but the writers kept some plot points from the comics which don't make much sense now.

The best example of how Cecil is in the comics is the time he plays with that new teleportation tech. His underling asks him if fucking around like that is a good way to burn a zillion taxpayer dollars per one teleport, and Cecil basically plays him off.

Zombie cyborgs and Cecil giving Sinclair a job instead of putting a bullet in his head is revealed at the end of Doc Seismic fight, when Mark is on the ropes but gets saved at the last minute, which paints Cecil as kind of a dick but still an unquestionable ally.

The Conquest situation was Cecil showing his incompetence for the first time. Basically he tried to pull another Sinclair (...I guess, motive for keeping him captive is not specified) but underestimated how strong a Viltrumite can be.

I stopped watching during the hiatus so I'm not familiar about what the show changes after the bug planet arc. I wonder how will they spin Cecil's downfall if he's supposed to be this super duper glownigger in the show; in comic it was expected he's gonna get played by someone or other.

 

[Cave Fisher]

Cecil is a retard who unnecessarily escalated things with Mark to the point of a causing a huge brawl that lost him half of the Guardians of the Globe when he tried to murder Mark with his zombie army spun up by his pet ghoul Sinclair. This is supposed to be a guy who rehabilitated a bunch of super villains in prison, but he can't deescalate a disagreement with an outraged hero? That whole ambush in the white room was 100% Cecil's ego going on a power trip. He lectures Mark for being arrogant and unable to handle disagreements, right after he sic'd his zombie cyborgs on a Viltrumite for disagreeing with him.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. People keep hyping him up like he's the most reasonable man on earth, and while he does have more of his shit together than most of the superheroes, it's important to note that that's a really low fucking bar.

He's been shown multiple times to fucking suck at properly explaining and de-escalating a situation. When Omni Man was tearing shit up in season 1 and he told the new guardians to meetup, he gave them no explanation other than "fuck you, just wait here" to a bunch of busy superheroes and teenagers that didn't really HAVE to work with him and only told them what was going on after they were like a second away from leaving.

He was apparently able to take over a prison offscreen and make it way better with no powers, but I'm not seeing how the hell he could do that if he can't even handle a traumatized teenager being angry at him without resorting to luring him into a trap and attacking him, then refusing to elaborate when his friends ask why the fuck he's siccing a bunch of cyborg zombies on the most powerful hero at the moment, he should know to be very, very careful in how he handles mark and what parts of the GDA's operations he allows him to see. He never takes Darkblood aside and says "Hey, we're like 100% sure Nolan did that shit, too, but if you keep provoking the most powerful hero on earth, we don't know what he's gonna do if he stops pretending to be on our side before we figure out why he did this." he just lures him into the GDA and banishes him to hell, while talking shit about him and demons thinking in black and white.

That one moment in the comic where he admits he definitely does NOT need to waste as much money as he does with his teleporter thing, but just does it because he's addicted to it is probably one of the best moments of his entire character because it shows who he really is despite the more "tough but fair" image he's trying to go for compared to the comics, he just wants to feel powerful and in control among all these superpowered beings while feeling like the REAL hero for calling himself morally gray for doing stupid shit. It's like if Batman was always one bad conversation away from using one of his reddit super-contingencies for his friends, then immediately finding out that shit doesn't work.

The conquest incident was a colossal fuckup even for him, that while it doesn't make sense for this version of him to let it get THAT BAD, it still tracks with him arrogantly thinking he's the one in control. One of the best moments in season 3 aside from the last 2 episodes actually looking good was when after everything was done, he STILL tried to exert some kind of control over Mark by telling him not to threaten him ever again, and immediately gets choked the fuck out and told what will happen if he actually tries to do anything about it.

 

[Calandrino]

The only way taking Conquest as a prisoner makes any sense is if he just wanted to rob Mark of his only major victory. It would also explain why they didn't amputate any of Conquest's limbs, nor did they bother to equip his prison with any sonic weapons. Cecil wanted Conquest to escape and cause more problems, which would make Mark look incompetent and ineffective at dealing with real threats, and all the other security features he had were just theater.

I tend to blame Kirkman rather than Cecil. A lot of things happen because they "have" to happen for later plot developments. The characters have better-defined personalities in the show than the comic, and sometimes they end up acting conspicuously out of character when the script makes them.

It's like if Batman was always one bad conversation away from using one of his reddit super-contingencies for his friends, then immediately finding out that shit doesn't work.

Spoiler

Sad, tragic, yet oddly satisfying.

 

[cybertoaster]

Thought I had posted this, guess the servers crapped out and 502'd att.

Anyway, I'm tired of writers trying to add "layers" to characters thinking it will make them deep or some shit, like they just did with Conquest, its such a half-assed move and they believe it compensates for their mediocrity. The whole "I'm so ronery uwu" rant wasn't in the comic, same with the fight with Eve, in the original she barely landed a hit before he beat the shit out of her, which was meant to show how insanely powerful he was but can't have a woman getting 360noscoped in one scene now, nope, not even if its to drive the point of how dangerous the enemy is and how hopeless the situation has become, can't have it, too problematic, she has to be a girlboss somehow.

Look at the comic: all she manages to do is put him in a sphere, that's it, after that he one-punch her face off then impales her


And back to the spiel, what was the point? that we should feel bad for this old sadistic fuck? that there's an explanation for why he does what he does? a reason? It even ruins the point of the scene in the comic, he's thanking Mark because he's a violent psychopath and he gets off on killing and destroying but most of his opponents don't last as much, that confession made no sense in the context of what just happened.

The OG:


Here's the thing: Conquest is completely irredeemable, he's like an IRL genocidal maniac but with superpowers. I say IRL because when you watch a documentary like "The act of killing" you see guys like Conquest aren't lonely, they aren't sad, they are mass killers who took advantage of the situation to do what would usually get them jailed/executed. The only reason Conquest doesn't go completely nuts is because he still fears Thragg who is stronger and can kill him, and of course does not fear his geriatric ass. He doesn't have "layers", not everybody has layers, some people specially evil fucks are very one-dimensional. This obsession with adding layers to characters its just a projection from shitty writers who think everybody has "layers" like they do, and what are their layers? well in many of these cartoonists their layers are being a pretentious virtue signal asshole who is secretly a pedo and supports killing people of opposite ideologies, its like how lunatics think everybody else is a lunatic too. So of course Conquest is actually le edgy lonely guy feared by other viltrumites, he can't possibly be just a sick evil fuck who was given license to do what he wants, even tho there are plenty of historical examples of that.

Oh well, at least I get a laugh from all this stupidity:

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

This obsession with adding layers to characters its just a projection from shitty writers who think everybody has "layers" like they do, and what are their layers? well in many of these cartoonists their layers are being a pretentious virtue signal asshole who is secretly a pedo and supports killing people of opposite ideologies, its like how lunatics think everybody else is a lunatic too. So of course Conquest is actually le edgy lonely guy feared by other viltrumites, he can't possibly be just a sick evil fuck who was given license to do what he wants, even tho there are plenty of historical examples of that.

By this argument, doesn't this mean that the writers of the show front as tough guys but are secretly sad about how isolated they feel from their colleagues? To say every written character is a mirror image of its writer seems ridiculous, especially when it's probably just a filler moment they added to give the character more flavor to fill a gap in the run time.

But nevertheless, you are right about Conquest in particular, the "lonely" speech doesn't really add much to what is essentially a Nappa clone.

 

[demicolon]

It's lazy writing 101 where to add "depth" you splice the character with a teenage girl's inner monologue. That coming from a grizzled veteran of God-knows how many battles and who should be all over this shit just comes off as ridiculous. Mark could remind Conquest of his son/grandson long lost in the Viltrumite genocide, if you're going that angle or it could be a battle brother from Whatever war that he misses butchering civilians together with and it would work.

A living weapon psycho complaining about loneliness, give me a break, you write what you know.

 

[cybertoaster]

By this argument, doesn't this mean that the writers of the show front as tough guys but are secretly sad about how isolated they feel from their colleagues?

Nah, what they are projecting is the old tired trope they were told in school that all their preppy jock bullies were actually sad and lonely. They were not, some people bully and belittle (and kill) other people for fun, they aren't compensating for shit, they are doing it because they can. Thinking they are actually sad and lonely is a cope for these nerds.

 

[God of Nothing]

Oh well, at least I get a laugh from all this stupidity:

I know Meatcanyon's just having a laugh, but we all thought something among these lines when this happened because why the fuck would this super genocidal old man lean in so close when it looks like he won?

Get rid of it and the flow of the whole conflict goes far better, same if you include Eve's pathetic "contribution" they added

 

[Calandrino]

"If Invincible was Islamic"

the edit we all wanted

 

[starborn427614]

he only reason Conquest doesn't go completely nuts is because he still fears Thragg who is stronger and can kill him, and of course does not fear his geriatric ass. He doesn't have "layers", not everybody has layers, some people specially evil fucks are very one-dimensional. This obsession with adding layers to characters its just a projection from shitty writers who think everybody has "layers" like they do, and what are their layers? well in many of these cartoonists their layers are being a pretentious virtue signal asshole who is secretly a pedo and supports killing people of opposite ideologies, its like how lunatics think everybody else is a lunatic too.

I took it more to be a commentary on Viltrumites as a whole, kind of why their race has wound up so deficient after that plague decimated them. They're so committed to the bit that they managed to churn out psychopaths like Conquest, whereas a Viltrumite with an actual support network (i.e. Mark) turned out to be a better balance of someone who's willing to use violence to defend as well as conquer their enemies.

It's also just a more interesting wrinkle to the character in general, because otherwise they'd be a carbon copy of Anissa and that one guy played by Clancy Brown whose name escapes me. Conquest is still irredeemable, but you get the sense that he could have been good at one point, something that's just impossible now.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I took it more to be a commentary on Viltrumites as a whole, kind of why their race has wound up so deficient after that plague decimated them. They're so committed to the bit that they managed to churn out psychopaths like Conquest, whereas a Viltrumite with an actual support network (i.e. Mark) turned out to be a better balance of someone who's willing to use violence to defend as well as conquer their enemies.

It's also just a more interesting wrinkle to the character in general, because otherwise they'd be a carbon copy of Anissa and that one guy played by Clancy Brown whose name escapes me. Conquest is still irredeemable, but you get the sense that he could have been good at one point, something that's just impossible now.

For me I'd also say the "I'm so Lonely" speech also makes Conquest worse morally. Like he's aware he can be capable of some good, but openly embraces being Satan's strongest soldier and actively chooses to be a monster especially with how he relishes in his sadism like how he turned Oliver into Laffy Taffy and made a donut out of Atom Eve.