Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Isn't the federation policy specifically NOT to send in the detachment of marines and try to find the peaceful option? As per your intro? So he is in agreement with the federation in that case.

Kinda hard to ignore the problem when they're Jem'Hadar going around killing people, don't you think?

 

[Farmholio]

If we are talking about quality concentration it arguably has a lower percentage of stinkers than the next generation as well which has multiple borderline unwatchable seasons.

'Well there's a lot less Orville than TNG I guess so it makes sense TNG might have more bad episodes.

As for "Star wars energy" I legitimately have no clue what you're even talking about. If anything the last season moved closer toward DS9 with focus on political intrigue, negotiating and alliance building with trying to humanize the krill.

Not to start a stupid slap fight, I know better than to argue with someone's opinion about what they enjoy... but just to try to prove to myself I'm not hallucinating... the entire season 2 finale of The Orville was a Star Wars ripoff that had practically no Star Trek content, except the conceit of time travel. They're a secret rebellion who run around trying to escape the Kaylon empire like they're in the Millennium Falcon going to hyperspace. And in the end they do a one in a million shot crazy plan to save the universe. I always thought it was blatant. There's lots of stuff in the series that to me felt more trying to be Star Wars than Star Trek, as MacFarlane is obviously a fan of both, and I think he leans more heavily in enjoying Wars than Trek. But that particular episode is the most visually clear. Maybe I'm insane, I can accept that.

And by "mouthpiece energy" I assume you mean the 1 episode they did on the Krill election in which they explicitly don't take a side and mention that everyone sucks and the bad guy wins because of course he wins because if he didn't then the kaylon threat plotline they've been setting up the whole season would end right then and there.

Just about all of the plotlines around the Moclans have a clear political right side which I'm guessing happens to be MacFarlane's side. I point to the episode about the evil sexist Moclans oppressing the female underground railroad. But if I went over every instance of the show's writing having a political slant I'd be going over just about the entire content of the show. I still enjoyed a lot of The Orville but I'm just baffled anyone would say it doesn't try to insert some current year politics with a heavy bias. It's a little distracting, perhaps not catastrophically show-ruining I guess. Certain episodes I have no desire to rewatch because they're too heavy handed like this though.

At least so far nobody has pulled out a copy of the communist manifesto and started quoting karl marx like they did in ds9.

When did DS9 open up the communist manifesto and start propagandizing to the viewer? I've watched it a couple times and can't recall a time I felt it was preaching to me, at least not about MODERN politics anyway... everything always felt couched firmly in the hypothetical politics of the setting. Maybe I've got some kind of nostalgia goggles on.

It easily beats the entirety of nu trek, voyager and enterprise, and for the most part its a Best of/Remastered/Remake of New Generation.

As far as comparing it to post-DS9 content... Well I think Enterprise had some particular cherry picked episodes that were good trek. For whatever that's worth. But still, point conceded. There's literally nothing closer to trek that's come out since DS9 than The Orville. Fair enough.

I still maintain that season 3 of The Orville seemed to stray too far from trek though, and it's my least favorite season personally. Which makes me not so hopeful about season 4. That's the main thing I was trying to say, I'm surprised people still get excited about The Orville after that last season. But then again, given that there's like literally nothing else comparable to trek coming out, what can you do?

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

When did DS9 open up the communist manifesto

The one where Rom leads a strike.
It's presented more as "lol the tard is trying" but yeah it's literally Marx

 

[Farmholio]

The one where Rom leads a strike.
It's presented more as "lol the tard is trying" but yeah it's literally Marx

....Shit I totally forgot about the Ferengi stuff. I think I put it in the back of my mind when thinking about DS9 because I considered it to be comic relief content. But yeah it did bother me how slanted the politics of the Ferengi were compared to the other races. It's a little preachy.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

'Well there's a lot less Orville than TNG I guess so it makes sense TNG might have more bad episodes.

I said "percentage" for a reason, why did you ignore that bit?

Just about all of the plotlines around the Moclans have a clear political right side which I'm guessing happens to be MacFarlane's side.

The third episode of the series is literally "Tranning out kids is bad." The moclans are set up as a political punchline to bait politibrains but they have considerably more depth than most people give them credit for, and to be completely honest I don't think they cleanly map onto current political issues as much as people would want them too.

And again, the show is literally based on startrek that takes place in a socialist egalitarian utopia. Did you want them to make star trek except set in nazi germany or something? How many of your complaints apply to the orville that do not apply to star trek?

They're a secret rebellion who run around trying to escape the Kaylon empire like they're in the Millennium Falcon going to hyperspace

"I didn't like this one episode that vaguely aludes to star wars in that there is a rebellion, ergo the entire series now has star wars energy."

Again, I'm all for criticisms of the orville but like... really? Star wars is a fantasy space opera with sci fi elements about a plucky hero, the orvile and star trek are more grounded military chain of command dramas. I dunno what else to say to this because there's not much meat to the argument.

The one where Rom leads a strike.
It's presented more as "lol the tard is trying" but yeah it's literally Marx

Yeah but the tard succeeds because at the finale the ferengi apparently reform their entire civilization into an egalitarian socialist utopia. Its the only part of ds9 that's so annoyingly shit I consider it non canon or rationalize it in that Rom's shitty utopia collapsed a generation after.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Yeah but the tard succeeds because at the finale the ferengi apparently reform their entire civilization into an egalitarian utopia. Its the only part of ds9 that's so annoyingly shit I consider it non canon or rationalize it in that Rom's shitty utopia collapsed a generation after

My headcanon is Quark becomes a conservative political commentator broadcasting from the bar about the fallen state of Ferenginar

 

[Farmholio]

1. I didn't.

2. Maybe you're right about Star Trek being equally politically biased in which case I have nostalgia goggles for Trek and not The Orville. I don't think Moclans are some kind of bait, I think the show is unironically biased though. And also whatever, if you don't then fine. I was primarily expressing surprise that people consider season 3 of The Orville good trek content because I don't, and that's me speaking as someone who rather enjoyed seasons 1 and 2. Seasons 1 and 2 were a little better trek content imo but I thought 3 strayed and lost my interest.

3. It wasn't vague to me idk how to explain it better because it's a visual/direction thing, and also I admit I might be imagining it.

 

[Post Reply]

I still enjoyed a lot of The Orville but I'm just baffled anyone would say it doesn't try to insert some current year politics with a heavy bias. It's a little distracting, perhaps not catastrophically show-ruining I guess.

Turning the Krill into space-christian fundies came pretty close for me.

 

[Farmholio]

Turning the Krill into space-christian fundies came pretty close for me.

Yeah... whatever other opinions MacFarlane must hold, clearly his strongest is that he harbors a seething hatred of organized religion. It's not just the Krill stuff, he goes out of his way to bring the topic up multiple times throughout the series just to shit on religious people. Like the one that Mike from RLM complained about being a rip off of a TOS episode, with the big bioship. Indirectly, the one with the fast-forward-time planet

Spoiler

that turned into religious fanatics before becoming enlightened euphoric atheists

. I also think the astrology people was a dig at organized religion by way of shitting on culturally established superstition. Probably other examples but those were the blatant ones. It's ... you know it's not the worst thing in the world like typical wokeshit, but it is a little obnoxious.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

I think the show is unironically biased though. And also whatever, if you don't then fine. I was primarily expressing surprise that people consider season 3 of The Orville good trek content because I don't

Out of curiocity, could you rank all the star trek shows (except the nu ones because idgaf about them) and alongside them each orville season seperately?

Justifications for each would also be nice. (Not saying this as an interrogation, I just like reading people's reasons for ranking the various shows)

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Also, the Time Wars ended in the best way possible: "We don't care. No one cares. Go away." Lol.

Archer pretty much channeled what everyone was feeling by the time Enterprise finally wrapped up the Temporal Cold War stuff.

The one where Rom leads a strike.
It's presented more as "lol the tard is trying" but yeah it's literally Marx

I always thought it was funny that on Ferenginar, even saying the word "union" is illegal.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

1. I didn't.

You said "there is more star trek so of course there's gonna be more bad trek episodes" when I was talking about proportions, not overal volume. % wise, more of trek is bad than orville.

2. Maybe you're right about Star Trek being equally politically biased in which case I have nostalgia goggles for Trek and not The Orville.

Ds9 is by far my favourite star trek and sisko my favourite commander by far, but I just wanna point out, it has multiple blaxsploitation episodes about sisko being an oppressed writer in the 50s where everyone is comically racist against him nonstop and the only episode in star trek history where they say "nigger" with a hard r.

Also, he has a few other episodes where he starts getting uppity about vic's club because "400 years ago we wuz slaves n shiet" and starts bitching about segregation and all the usual shit etc etc.

Even outside the "socialist egalitarian utopia" concept, star trek has had A LOT of mouthpiecing, this is why it really annoys me when you say that the orville is too biased, considering that the orville at its worst doesn't even begin to approach star trek at its best when it comes to modern politics.

 

[Farmholio]

Out of curiocity, could you rank all the star trek shows (except the nu ones because idgaf about them) and alongside them each orville season seperately?

Justifications for each would also be nice. (Not saying this as an interrogation, I just like reading people's reasons for ranking the various shows)

uhhhh its kinda hard to rank orville along with trek for me because i dont think im getting quite the same experience, in a weird way i was actually enjoying how its a different take, like the crew are more informal and theres more humor and whatever, which i think most trek fans generally disliked about it? they sucked almost all the humor out in s3, one of several reasons i started to turn against it.

TNG = DS9 > TOS + TOS Movies > VOY (= maybe Orville s1 and 2 here?) > ENT = TNG movies (i dont like the TNG movies...)
feel like im forgetting shit but i havent watched much TAS
not big on TOS, started with TNG as a young'n
theres a debate and divide about DS9 vs TNG but i like them equally for different reasons.

Even outside the "socialist egalitarian utopia" concept, star trek has had A LOT of mouthpiecing, this is why it really annoys me when you say that the orville is too biased, considering that the orville at its worst doesn't even begin to approach star trek at its best when it comes to modern politics.

yeah fair enough im probably just more sensitive to it in a modern show vs. stuff im nostalgic for

 

[PFM]

in a weird way i was actually enjoying how its a different take, like the crew are more informal and theres more humor and whatever, which i think most trek fans generally disliked about it? they sucked almost all the humor out in s3, one of several reasons i started to turn against it.

Maybe I didn't give Orville a fair chance but this is what I really disliked about it. TNG with it's occasional Data-being-silly humor is about all I want for humor. I want a more serious space scifi show, full of technobabble and alien-of-the-week. I only made it like 2 episodes into Orville before I was utterly sick of Mcfarlane.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Maybe I didn't give Orville a fair chance but this is what I really disliked about it. TNG with it's occasional Data-being-silly humor is about all I want for humor. I want a more serious space scifi show, full of technobabble and alien-of-the-week. I only made it like 2 episodes into Orville before I was utterly sick of Mcfarlane.

The weird thing about a lot of those first season jokes is how awkwardly they were edited in. I'm pretty sure an editor can neatly cut those scenes out and the scene would still be the same. Later seasons don't have those kinds of scenes.

 

[WonderWino]

My headcanon is Quark becomes a conservative political commentator broadcasting from the bar about the fallen state of Ferenginar

...and every time he interviews rom about some new policy and starts asking serious questions rom would have a hard time answering in a way that doesn't get people pissed off enough to throw him off the top of the tower of commerce leeta jumps into the conversation and starts shaking her tits at the camera as a distraction and changes the topic

 

[Oilspill Battery]

The weird thing about a lot of those first season jokes is how awkwardly they were edited in. I'm pretty sure an editor can neatly cut those scenes out and the scene would still be the same. Later seasons don't have those kinds of scenes.

A lot of people are now believing that he literally edited those jokes in to convince the execs that he's making family guy 2.0 which explains why the intant the show got established he completely cut 90% of them out.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

...and every time he interviews rom about some new policy and starts asking serious questions rom would have a hard time answering in a way that doesn't get people pissed off enough to throw him off the top of the tower of commerce leeta jumps into the conversation and starts shaking her tits at the camera as a distraction and changes the topic

Imagine quantitative easing on latinium.

"Uhhh, if you put less liquid latinium into each slip, we can have more slips to use."

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Imagine quantitative easing on latinium.

"Uhhh, if you put less liquid latinium into each slip, we can have more slips to use."

sometimes no lobes loops back around into amazing lobes

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

...and every time he interviews rom about some new policy and starts asking serious questions rom would have a hard time answering in a way that doesn't get people pissed off enough to throw him off the top of the tower of commerce leeta jumps into the conversation and starts shaking her tits at the camera as a distraction and changes the topic

Imagine quantitative easing on latinium.

"Uhhh, if you put less liquid latinium into each slip, we can have more slips to use."

sometimes no lobes loops back around into amazing lobes

That's the thing about Rom. He's not an idiot. He may not be as profit-oriented as other Ferengi, but he's still cunning in his own right.

When he and Leeta returned in an episode of Lower Decks, they spent most of their screentime fucking with Freeman and Vassery as a way to goad them into outsmarting them, all to make sure the Federation respects Ferengi ideals.