2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

Well the thing I read at the Holocaust museum made it sound like they just started covertly shipping people over there. That actually made me like Israel less. Funnily enough I think my view of Israel was at its lowest when right as I left the Holocaust museum.

But none of that matters. The only real claim you can get on a piece of land is the claim you earn through war. Did the Anglo-Saxons have a claim on Brittan when they showed up? No, but they earned it (and then lost it when they forsook the house of Wessex as their true kings).
A large part of the reason they “just started shipping people” over to “this strip of land” was that the Jews were in existential crisis and no real fucking countries would take them in.

But thank god you went to the holocaust museum and became an expert lol
 
Drone strike in Ayta Al-Shab:

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This Free Press column captures something about that episode of Joe Rogan:

This is the strongest evidence of thought policing I have ever seen,” says a popular comment under a video of the debate. And it’s true: On numerous occasions throughout the discussion, Murray commits the greatest sin available in Podcastistan: suggesting that certain people shouldn’t comment on certain things and that others should not elevate their voices. Such is the inability to think clearly about this that you would almost certainly receive less pushback for denying that slavery harmed black Americans or claiming the Holocaust didn’t really happen. They simply no longer understand the difference between censorship (“this must be banned”) and morality (“this is a bad thing to do”).
(link/archive)

I mean they do everything in their to move and keep violent browns here while appealing to empathy. Also they constantly say everything is hamas but rarely if ever prove it. They bomb outside aide workers. They've done so even in less contentious times
Something I appreciate about the Farms is not having to deal with "Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism!" people. At least you're forthright.

What did she or her family do?
Hamas and its supporters (which, on Oct. 7, included thousands upon thousands of Gazan civilians) made choices that put presumably innocent Gazans in harm's way. Let the deaths of any innocent people be on the heads of Hamas and its supporters. The IDF said that the strike that killed Fatima Hassona targeted a Hamas fighter. You'd do better to blame that Hamas fighter for putting the people around him in danger than to blame Israel for defending itself against an enemy that hides behind noncombatants.

Also -- I don't know much about Hassona as an individual, but, given that she's a "journalist" who has been allowed to work in Gaza for years, I would be absolutely astounded if she weren't operating as a pro-Hamas propagandist. Anyone who has evidence to the contrary is welcome to enlighten me.
 
It was always the Jewish homeland.
Judaism isn't a race. Palestine belongs to Palestinians. Them converting to Islam doesn't exclude their claim of being natives. Europeans converting to Judaism doesn't make them native to the land. There are simple DNA tests to determine how native someone is to the Palestine region. The majority of Jews are not native. The majority of Jews in Palestine converted to Islam. The majority of Jews after the Zionist movement come from Europe. Looking at events from 2000 years ago before Islam existed is silly because yes, they were all Jewish, as in, the Palestinians themselves were all Jewish.

Judaism itself is an eastern religion about wearing turbans and doing mummification burials.

I am. I'm trying to learn more about the conflict.
There are a few keypoints that are crucial to understand this conflict.

Israel is an apartheid regime / Zionism is an apartheid movement
The goal of the regime is to keep a large bulk of natives segregated so that the Jews can have a "Jewish state". Israel is a worst apartheid than South Africa ever was and the things they've done pale in comparison to what was considered a scandal in South Africa.

Because it's an apartheid regime, the borders were unilaterally decided by the Zionists
Palestinians never said "you guys can have Tel Aviv, but we'll have the West Bank and Gaza!".
Palestinians did not want to be segregated, they did not pick their borders, in fact, they perceive the place to be one country which they're native of. What you see is an unilateral military aggression being carried out by one side to maintain vote majority.


These two initial points are what most people miss the most. Normies look at this conflict as 2 foreign countries fighting each other, or Muslims trying to brainlessly exterminate a peaceful country of Jews, that's not what this is. Understanding these two points will change your outlook completely, and we can develop it further:

  • The government was formed on top of a terror organization responsible for bombing attacks
  • The entire first cabinet was formed by foreigners, the one guy born in Palestine was a second generation migrant
  • GogFT8KWYAAZIhn.webp
  • The threat of extermination of Jews as a justification was a hoax, they had this planned for decades in advance, the lobbying efforts predate WWII pogroms by decades, the Jewish colonial association started 50 years before WWII, they even did a collab with Hitler to deport Jews in Palestine for their manpower
  • Many places that today are Jewish towns were Arab villages which were ethnically cleansed in 1948 or later
  • Arab Christians were ethnically cleansed and segregated along with the Muslims
  • Jews killed dozens of times more Palestinians than the other way around, just in this recent conflict Jews killed more non-Jewish Palestinians than Palestinians killed Jews in the recorded history of this regime
  • Jews are not afraid of Muslims, Israel is not Europe, there's no "crazy arab migrant" parallel going on. Jews are forming groups to march into Palestinian villages to spit in their face. https://x.com/the_andrey_x/status/1910286575847481410
  • Tel Aviv is 30 to 50min away from Gaza by car; the entire territory is so small it's silly to suggest it could ever be 2 countries, in fact, the goal of the Zionists was either a total ethnic cleansing of non-jews, or the formation of a "greater Israel" apartheid, taking land from Iraq, Egypt, and Syria
  • Jews used to live in Gaza and didn't mind, until the intermingling started being considered a problem and the Zionists forcefully pulled the Jewish civilians out to enforce the segregation. I believe one of the Codepink American activists that show up on twitter chasing congressmen is a jewish woman who used to work in Gaza


 
Israel is an apartheid regime / Zionism is an apartheid movement

It's not. Having non-citizens being excluded from voting isn't apartheid. Keeping hostile non-citizens behind walls in their territory is not apartheid either.

The one thing I've heard is how marriages are controlled by religious groups, so non-Jews can't marry Jews or vice versa. But the Israeli government recognizes marriages from other countries, so a lot of mixed-religious marriages go to places like Cyprus to get officially married.

Because it's an apartheid regime, the borders were unilaterally decided by the Zionists
Palestinians never said "you guys can have Tel Aviv, but we'll have the West Bank and Gaza!".

Because the Arabs wanted the Jews to have nothing. And then the Arabs lost. And lost. And lost again. Shockingly losing wars have consequences.

Winners decide borders. The current borders of Germany are decided upon them losing two world wars. The United States has the borders it has because it beat the shit out of Native tribes and Mexico.
 
Judaism isn't a race. Palestine belongs to Palestinians. Them converting to Islam doesn't exclude their claim of being natives. Europeans converting to Judaism doesn't make them native to the land. There are simple DNA tests to determine how native someone is to the Palestine region. The majority of Jews are not native. The majority of Jews in Palestine converted to Islam. The majority of Jews after the Zionist movement come from Europe.
You're operating by a paradigm in which land ownership is assigned to different ethnic groups according to DNA tests? That's an interesting idea; unfortunately, it's never been applied at any point in human history, so I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by bringing it up.

As you say, Judaism is not a race in the narrow sense, but neither is it simply a religion, and certainly not a universalistic religion in the mold of Christianity, which applies itself across the world with little respect to place or ancestry. Jews are also an ethnic community, and, like many ethnic communities, they have a set of norms and rules for determining whom to induct (or expel). Jewishness is not a gene. You can't determine whether or not someone is Jewish by mailing off a cheek swab. (A lot of things in Judaism would be simpler if you could.)

Antisemites will treat Judaism as a race when it suits and as a religion when it suits. For contemporary pro-Palestinian activists, it usually suits to treat Jews as members of a religion, and to play up the idea that Ashkenazi Jews (never mind the existence of Sephardim, Mizrahim, etc.) are all the descendants of converts. Many Jews who migrated from Europe to the land of Israel during the modern Zionist movement were the descendants of Jews who were expelled from the land of Israel centuries beforehand. In that time, they maintained their connection to the land. Jewish prayer and ritual is replete with references to the land of Israel. A people who maintain their connection to their homeland remain indigenous to it, even after a prolonged period of exile. If the Jews who were scattered into Europe had assimilated, forgotten their history, and become a dispersed assortment of individuals indistinguishable from other Europeans, and then migrated back to the land of Israel, you might have a point, but they didn't, so you don't.

The majority of Jews are not native.
Here you even seem to concede that some Jews are indigenous to "Palestine." By your judgment, would those Jews (the ones with approved DNA profiles) have the right to live and govern themselves in their homeland?

Looking at events from 2000 years ago before Islam existed is silly because yes, they were all Jewish, as in, the Palestinians themselves were all Jewish.
I don't even know what you're getting at here. Islam was founded in the 7th century CE, so 2,000 years before that would be the Bronze Age, at which point the land was inhabited by numerous non-Jewish groups.

Also, there were no "Palestinians" around at that time because no such nationality had been invented and no such territory had been established. As far as I know, no one called the land "Palestine" until Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE, much later. The term "Palestinian" doesn't originally refer to the Arabs who would later move to the region, but to the area settled by the Philistine people. It's nonsensical to point at a Roman map reading "Syria Palaestina" and say, "See, it says Palestine, so that means the land belongs to Palestinians going back to when this map was created." "Palestine" is just a word that's changed meanings repeatedly with the passage of history. Modern Palestinians may be philistines, but they are not Philistines.

Judaism itself is an eastern religion about wearing turbans and doing mummification burials.
You are really cheating yourself if you allow yourself to remain this ignorant.

[]Israel is an apartheid regime / Zionism is an apartheid movement
The goal of the regime is to keep a large bulk of natives segregated so that the Jews can have a "Jewish state". Israel is a worst apartheid than South Africa ever was and the things they've done pale in comparison to what was considered a scandal in South Africa.

Because it's an apartheid regime, the borders were unilaterally decided by the Zionists
Palestinians never said "you guys can have Tel Aviv, but we'll have the West Bank and Gaza!".
Palestinians did not want to be segregated, they did not pick their borders, in fact, they perceive the place to be one country which they're native of. What you see is an unilateral military aggression being carried out by one side to maintain vote majority.


These two initial points are what most people miss the most. Normies look at this conflict as 2 foreign countries fighting each other, or Muslims trying to brainlessly exterminate Jews, that's not what this is. Understanding these two points will change your outlook completely, and we can develop it further:

[/]
  • The government was formed on top of a terror organization responsible for bombing attacks
I'm going to put an extra twenty in my tzedakah box just for you.
 
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It's not. Having non-citizens being excluded from voting isn't apartheid.
This is precisely apartheid. It matches the plot in South Africa to create the Bantustan states to exclude the blacks from voting. Delimitating "citizen" and the territories solely to exclude voting is precisely apartheid.

The parallel is very clear:

If I remember correctly it was even decided by the UN court that Israel is committing a grand apartheid.



Because the Arabs wanted the Jews to have nothing.

Yes, the Arabs didn't want a segregated Jewish state on top of their country. Would you accept a segregated Jewish state on top of your country? And no, this is not "Jews have nothing", this is Jews being treated like normal people.

Again, my post perfectly shows why people misunderstand this conflict. If you don't understand it's an apartheid regime, and you don't understand the Jews have the uniliteral, organized, ploy, you don't understand Israel/Palestine.

This whole narrative is so insane, childlike even. "The Jews were going to have a country but the mean Arabs didn't want it!!!". So, you're violating their consent then? If they didn't want it then why do you support it? Don't people have self determination and the right to choose? There's not a single other part of the world where this logic would ever apply, this whole abuser logic is pushed solely through induction and repetition. It's just slogans and one liners. If the people living there said no to a "Jewish state", then we should agree that this state isn't valid.
 
This is precisely apartheid. It matches the plot in South Africa to create the Bantustan states to exclude the blacks from voting. Delimitating "citizen" and the territories solely to exclude voting is precisely apartheid.

The parallel is very clear:

If I remember correctly it was even decided by the UN court that Israel is committing a grand apartheid.

It's not. I, as a Canadian, have no expectation to vote in the United States. Palestinians, as non-Israelis, do not have a right to participate in a foreign election.

Israeli Arabs, as in Arabs with Israeli citizenship, can and do participate in Israeli politics.

Yes, the Arabs didn't want a segregated Jewish state on top of their country.

It's not their country. They can have whatever remnant of Gaza and the West Bank Israel doesn't annex. Or better yet, they can fuck off to Jordan like the initial Balfour Declaration plan.


Would you accept a segregated Jewish state on top of your country? And no, this is not "Jews have nothing", this is Jews being treated like normal people.

If you listen to some people that already happens lol. So far so good I guess. Better Jews than Muslims that's for sure.

Again, my post perfectly shows why people misunderstand this conflict. If you don't understand it's an apartheid regime, and you don't understand the Jews have the uniliteral, organized, ploy, you don't understand Israel/Palestine.

The fundamentals of this conflict are as follows:

Sandniggers start wars, which they lose. They cry about muh oppression and ramp themselves to get revenge. Then they start another war, which they lose again.

Instead of admitting defeat and finding a solution where they get something, they'd rather keep the cycle going because muh pride or whatever, as if I should give a fuck about sandnigger feelings. Shockingly, as we see currently in Gaza, they're currently getting their shit pushed in once again.
 
If I remember correctly it was even decided by the UN court that Israel is committing a grand apartheid.
I have no doubt of that. The UN has moved to condemn Israel more often than Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, China, or Syria. From 2015-2023, the UN passed more than twice as many resolutions against Israel than against all other nations combined. Even Russia invading Ukraine couldn't put a dent in Israel's high score. The UN will go on passing resolutions finding Israel guilty of "grand apartheid" until the day it falls apart.

this is Jews being treated like normal people.
KEK
 
It's not. I, as a Canadian, have no expectation to vote in the United States. Palestinians, as non-Israelis, do not have a right to participate in a foreign election.

Ah yes, because Israel and Palestine is totally like US and Canada. Funnily enough, South Africa was much larger, so you could argue South Africa was like the US and the Bantustans were like Canada right? And that was still apartheid, why? People are being segregated and the internal borders were exclusively drawn to exclude people. US and Canada don't exist inside the same territory. Canada isn't a native reserve zone surrounded by the US military, with Americans being able to walk all around Canadian towns whilst Canadians get segregated roads. Americans can't enter Canada without the consent of the Canadian government. Canadians can't be kidnapped by the US military inside Canadian soil for violating arbitrary laws set by American commanders. America doesn't have laws limiting ethnic Canadians from political participation and setting them apart. I could go on but I think it would be easier if you were to read a book about the subject.
 
A large part of the reason they “just started shipping people” over to “this strip of land” was that the Jews were in existential crisis and no real fucking countries would take them in.

But thank god you went to the holocaust museum and became an expert lol
Didn't Brazil or some other South American country offer them land?
 
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Let's all remember that most Jews in Israel are descendants from the Jews who lived in Arab/Muslim lands, however, when they lost their wars to Israel, the Arabs and Muslims got so but hurt they killed the Jews, took their property, and kicked them out after stripping them of their citizenship. So the Arabs are to blame. Most European Jews who weren't killed in the Holocaust just moved to the USA (because they had family there).


Also fun fact: Hamas is running out of money haha
 
The one that's named in all major bible editions before 1948.


... the British Mandate of Palestine? Taken from the Ottomans after losing WW1?

It's actually funny, you listen to news reels from the period, it talks about "Palestinians" welcoming Jewish refugees with open arms. Except at the time, Palestinians described the Jewish population. The Arabs described themselves as Arabs, right until the 60s where pan-Arab nationalism lost a few wars.

Ah yes, because Israel and Palestine is totally like US and Canada. Funnily enough, South Africa was much larger, so you could argue South Africa was like the US and the Bantustans were like Canada right? And that was still apartheid, why?

Sure why not.

People are being segregated and the internal borders were exclusively drawn to exclude people.

You keep using "internal borders". Maybe an Israeli can correct me but I'm not aware of any internal borders within Israel proper.

There are some in the occupied West Bank, but since Israel militarily occupies the territory, this isn't surprising. The US no doubt had checkpoints and restrictions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

US and Canada don't exist inside the same territory.

Neither does Israel exist in Arab territory. The wonders of winning wars.

Canada isn't a native reserve zone surrounded by the US military, with Americans being able to walk all around Canadian towns whilst Canadians get segregated roads. Americans can't enter Canada without the consent of the Canadian government. Canadians can't be kidnapped by the US military inside Canadian soil for violating arbitrary laws set by American commanders

Breaking news! Military occupations suck.

The Israelis militarily occupying the West Bank and setting up checkpoints does not make Israel an apartheid state. The US wasn't an apartheid state when it did the same to Iraq or Afghanistan either.

. America doesn't have laws limiting ethnic Canadians from political participation and setting them apart. I could go on but I think it would be easier if you were to read a book about the subject.

Last I checked Israeli Arabs can fully participate in Israeli politics, which includes voting, having candidates serve in parliament, and being able to participate in other political and civic duties.

Palestinians, aka not Israelis, do not have the same benefits. Bitch to the Palestinian Authority for the lack of elections.

But sure I'll read a book as you conflate the British Mandate of Palestine as some Arab Muslim state. Whatever you say.
 
Didn't Brazil or some other South American country offer them land?
Prior to 1948, there were proposals to establish a Jewish state here, there, and everywhere other than the land of Israel. In the 1900s, the Zionist Congress debated a proposal to establish a Jewish state in Kenya/Uganda, with British support. Thank God the "Palestine or bust" hardliners were able to prevent that idea from being realized. If history furnishes a better example of "Be realistic, demand the impossible," than the establishment of the state of Israel in Israel, I haven't heard about it.

And of course you have places like the USSR's "Jewish Autonomous Oblast," the glorious Jewish paradise that is home to a whole 837 Jews (or 0.6% of its population). There's an incredible history of pseudo-Israels of which I have a very superficial understanding. If you're interested in this sort of thing, you might also enjoy Michael Chabon's "The Yiddish Policeman's Union," which imagines an alternate history in which a Jewish territory is established in Alaska.

Also fun fact: Hamas is running out of money haha
I wonder how they'll pay their corps of journalists and medics.
 
You keep using "internal borders". Maybe an Israeli can correct me but I'm not aware of any internal borders within Israel proper.
Formally, no. Informally, Jews avoid certain places. The Yeshiva and Seminary kids get told that they’ll be expelled if they enter the Arab section of J’lem, for example. But I’m not sure that’s so different than not wandering outside of the Chabad enclave of Crown Heights, because the non-Chabad area is rough.
 
In 1950, my family and millions of other anti-communist Chinese were forced to flee villages that they’d lived in for thousands of years.

It always floors me when people act like Palestinians losing their homes in the 1940s (due to a war they started, mind you) is the worst tragedy in human history and there’s no way they could have ever recovered from it, as if they were the only homeless refugees in the 1940s.

Only leftist retards think shooting up a music festival in 2023 is a reasonable response to your granny losing her clay hut in 1948. The Chinese will tell you there were much worse things you could have survived in the 1940s than getting your house bulldozed by Jews.


If I remember correctly it was even decided by the UN court that Israel is committing a grand apartheid.
Yeah and if I remember correctly, the UN unanimously voted to make Israel into a Jewish state

Yes, the Arabs didn't want a segregated Jewish state on top of their country. Would you accept a segregated Jewish state on top of your country?
Wait what? Are you telling me that Arabs don’t want a non-Muslim religious minority to have a state in the middle of their Islamic caliphate? Only Arabs should be able to have segregated countries. It’s almost as if they’ve been fighting the creation of a Kurdish state for similar reasons 🤔

If the people living there said no to a "Jewish state", then we should agree that this state isn't valid.
I love this logic. If the people living in France said no to a “Muslim state,” then we should agree that Muslims are no longer welcome in Paris. So glad we are on the same page 🙏
 
granny losing her clay hut in 1948
They also ignore the fact that most Arabs sold their properties on explicit orders from their leaders, who promised they were going to come back and murder all the Jews. Not to mention that the Arabs were slaughtering the Jewish natives in Israel long before 1948.

The entire anti-Israel movement is based on and maintained by shameless lies for the sake of an unquenchable death cult. It’s no wonder Arab-Israeli citizens (who are 25% of Israel’s population) have overwhelmingly said in survey after survey that if there was an Arab state they could move to, they’d still rather stay in Israel.
 
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