Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Dread First]

I will always stand tall for the Gentoo install guide. It is something that every guide should emulate.

I seem to recall @AmpleApricots going on a diatribe in the Linux thread about the fucking retarded defaults that Gentoo comes with. Having said that, the Gentoo handbook is still excellent stuff.

 

[YoRHa No. 2 Type B]

Installing Gentoo is quite annoying. The only retarded default in the install guide that comes to my mind is netifrc scripts instead of NetworkManager, but configuring portage (the package manager) is very annoying because it does indeed have retarded defaults. I thankfully keep a copy of my /etc/portage files in many places, so I never have to rebuild it fully from scratch.
I ended up just writing my own install guide which is mostly the Gentoo install guide with the retarded bits nuked and extra parts added which aren't covered (like getting to a graphical KDE session, or setting up NetworkManager).

 

[wmaf1488]

Those being:
Arch + derivatives
Debian + derivatives
Gentoo / Alpine / Void
Slackware
RHEL + derivatives
Specialized distros like OpenWRT, Peppermint, Puppy etc...

Am I missing any? That should cover all the main branches of the family tree. Also, running GVNTOO is objectively based, there's nothing quite like the feeling when something clicks after you get your hands dirty and build it from scratch.

SUSE
OpenMandriva
Mageia
PCLinuxOS
Solus

 

[AmpleApricots]

retarded defaults that Gentoo comes with

Last time I checked, the alternative init system scripts where a complete mess (runit depending on and using openrc, oh god WHY - I hope this changed in the meantime, I haven't checked) default useflags of quite a big amount of packages also don't make sense as default and are just sheer maintainer laziness. Some useflags in big software packages that would make sense to expose, aren't. The intallation handbook is quite good. Gentoo seems to have fallen in that hole of long-running software-related projects where there's little to improve and bloaty features are added for no good reason by people who weren't there from the beginning and want to change stuff without understanding first how the stuff that's already there works, like the user/group packages - while old problems that should be solved (many installation scripts not being POSIX sh clean and depending on bashisms comes to mind - although I think this has improved recently) are avoided like the plague and nobody wants to touch them, leading to more technical debt. I like gentoo. Have used it for almost two decades at this point. It makes sense to see it as "meta distribution" where you kinda roll your own by taking a good look at what happens upstream and overriding what you don't like. For example, replacing that cursed runit package with a local one. Gentoo was also a lot easier to handle when the dependency tree was smaller and software packages didn't have release cycles measured in days.

If you don't wanna do that, I feel gentoo doesn't make a lot of sense to use anymore. If you know what you're doing, don't shy away from compiling a few packages yourself and want something binary, minimal and non-rolling, Alpine is very good. Have been using it for a while now, too. If you want a Linux distro that just works and is compatible to everything, I recommend Debian. If you used Microsoft Windows for too long and it gave you Stockholm syndrome, I heard Ubuntu/Mint has a lot of that same nonsense you got used to.

 

[Ed Special]

If you used Microsoft Windows for too long and it gave you Stockholm syndrome, I heard Ubuntu/Mint has a lot of that same nonsense you got used to.

Unfortunately, even Ubuntu and Mint have issues of being rather difficult to set up at times, or even just straight up not working for stuff where Windows does. Example: I've got a prefab NAS that I bought on the cheap that, near as I can tell, has its Samba share configured incorrectly. Windows still communicates with it just fine, but I've yet to get anything running on GNU/Linux to actually read its shares, and unfortunately, there's too much data onboard this stupid thing for me to just exfil everything, nuke it, and manually reconfigure it with a more open OS - which is the hard stop I reached when trying to configure a $20 thin client to talk to it over the network to act as a video/music streaming box. Spent the equivalent of a couple shifts searching through documentation and stackoverflow trying to figure out how to get Linux to talk to the NAS and eventually reached the hard stop of "Get fucked, nuke your important data just to install Linux on this box scrub". Brute-forced Windows 11 onto this machine instead. Only took about half an hour to set up the installer configs to bypass the TPM 2.0+Secure Boot requirements then remove the Microsoft bloat and disable the Microsoft spyware telemetry, and once I had the 11 environment loaded it took a whopping two minutes to get that little dumbass to talk to the NAS. It's still a lot more bloated than Mint, but... it does the job.

TL;DR it is my opinion that Linux still has a long ways to go before it even approaches Windows in terms of usability.

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

TL;DR it is my opinion that Linux still has a long ways to go before it even approaches Windows in terms of usability.

Shouldn't you be blaming your NAS instead of Linux? You mentioned it has an incorrectly configured Samba share... is it an expectation that clients should work with a misconfigured share? The other way to look at this is Windows has wonky behavior by incorrectly connecting to a misconfigured share and Linux is properly not connecting to it.


Another day, another amazing contorted YouTube face from OurGuy. How does a typical day go for Lunduke?

"Oh, it's 9AM, better practice my weird faces for my YouTube channel. OK, now 10AM. I better review every single Code of Conduct from every single OSS project to see if I have anything to whine about on YouTube. Nope, nothing there. Now, better join and read all the developer Discords to see if there's any salt there. Nope, OK, time to mine every forum. Aha! One random person equivocating Gnome to Antifa!! I can make a 6 hour video about this and use my face from earlier in the morning."

Lunduke's a weird guy... the subtext to his videos are like "look at these open source clowns: they spend all day talking about Nazis and being crazy". However, the difference is, GNOME and other projects still occasionally release interesting software whereas the only thing Lunduke releases is these awful YouTube videos and soyfaces.

Lunduke's output makes the world dumber just by existing. Open Source projects are clogged with nerds. It's no wonder you find a lot of odd behavior. Maybe when Lunduke releases something of note I'll care a bit more about what he has to say.

 

[Max Weber]

View attachment 7290137
Another day, another amazing contorted YouTube face from OurGuy. How does a typical day go for Lunduke?

"Oh, it's 9AM, better practice my weird faces for my YouTube channel. OK, now 10AM. I better review every single Code of Conduct from every single OSS project to see if I have anything to whine about on YouTube. Nope, nothing there. Now, better join and read all the developer Discords to see if there's any salt there. Nope, OK, time to mine every forum. Aha! One random person equivocating Gnome to Antifa!! I can make a 6 hour video about this and use my face from earlier in the morning."

Lunduke's a weird guy... the subtext to his videos are like "look at these open source clowns: they spend all day talking about Nazis and being crazy". However, the difference is, GNOME and other projects still occasionally release interesting software whereas the only thing Lunduke releases is these awful YouTube videos and soyfaces.

Lunduke's output makes the world dumber just by existing. Open Source projects are clogged with nerds. It's no wonder you find a lot of odd behavior. Maybe when Lunduke releases something of note I'll care a bit more about what he has to say.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/we-hav...t-being-able-to-figure-out-thumbnails.113862/
Thanks for flashbanging me with his face.

 

[Ed Special]

The other way to look at this is Windows has wonky behavior by incorrectly connecting to a misconfigured share and Linux is properly not connecting to it.

Or, and hear me out, Windows is shipped with actually error-handling and compensation that can deal with minor config issues instead of needing autistic perfection out of everything on the network.

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

Or, and hear me out, Windows is shipped with actually error-handling and compensation that can deal with minor config issues instead of needing autistic perfection out of everything on the network.

I've heard this go the total opposite way. Let's say this "misconfigured share" was running an old version of SMB, like one that used LANMAN encryption for passwords. Modern SMB clients would do well to reject this type of configuration. Now let's say Linux's SMB client was lenient and connected to it. Then there would be people on the net crying and saying "because I used Linux, all my passwords got leaked!!!"

If you want something to work correctly, configure it correctly. There's always repercussions from allowing "compensation" in configuration issues.

 

[AmpleApricots]

Windows

I would not recommend Ubuntu/Mint any "hands-off" distribution personally, as such a thing does not exist anyways. In the same vein, I personally find Windows very difficult/impossible to properly use as it's components are complete black boxes of which there's neither proper documentation nor source code available for how they work (with changes to their function being possible to come pretty much at any point and no warning, via autoupdate that is hard to opt out of). Seeing how often vague, borderline ritualistic solutions are offered for Windows problems and how often it all just culminates into "just reinstall", that does not seem to be only my experience. I've personally never "just reinstalled" a Linux system. There was no reason to. Which leads me to believe that Linux/Linux userland systems are inheriently easier to use, as it is actually possible to understand them.

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

Thanks for flashbanging me with his face.

Edited just for you, sweetie. I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise to me that something as simple as inserting / resizing an image would be broken on a PHP-based forum. I'll keep in mind that resizing is broken. It makes me feel better I'm not the first to run into this.

Which leads me to believe that Linux/Linux userland systems are inheriently easier to use, as it is actually possible to understand them.

Another false equivocation you see that pops up is "Linux is so hard to install!!!" However, in my experience, most of these people have never installed Windows either. They buy a machine with it preinstalled from their OEM and that's the end of it.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Another false equivocation you see that pops up is "Linux is so hard to install!!!" However, in my experience, most of these people have never installed Windows either. They buy a machine with it preinstalled from their OEM and that's the end of it.

Nigger, how the fuck is Windows hard to install? You run the installer, click Next a few times and that is it.

Why do Linux tards still claim Windows is hard to install? Confused by things being straightforward when you usually have to edit cfg files and read twenty MAN pages to do shit?

 

[AmpleApricots]

Confused by things being straightforward when you usually have to edit cfg files and read twenty MAN pages to do shit?

You should always consider that "reading" and "editing text" might not be as difficult for others as it might be to you.

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

Nigger, how the fuck is Windows hard to install? You run the installer, click Next a few times and that is it.

To be clear, I am NOT the one claiming Windows is hard to install. I am making the observation that many people that complain about Ubuntu being hard to install are also ones who have never installed Windows either. There's a lot more users of Windows that have never experienced an install/configuration because their setup came pre-installed, whereas most users of Linux are used to installing it, as comparatively few people purchase pre-installed/pre-configured Linux systems.

 

[Ed Special]

via autoupdate that is hard to opt out of

gpedit and regedit are not even remotely hard to use, you just suck at understanding Windows' legacy utilities (or powershell/command prompt, if you're of that persuasion). Grew up with my parents' hand-me-down MS-DOS based systems, so fortunately I'm not stuck with that handicap.

If you want something to work correctly, configure it correctly

I literally just explained I can't without deleting a terabyte and change of data that I don't have the storage space to exfiltrate just to have a shell on the hardware that WILL let me change the finer details of configuration. One of these days, when I've got the expendable income to do so, I'll probably get around to throwing a few terabytes of SSDs onto an old decapitated HP laptop I've got on hand and use that as a NAS, but this is what works with what I've actually got on hand at the moment.

 

[AmpleApricots]

Grew up with my parents' hand-me-down MS-DOS based systems, so fortunately I'm not stuck with that handicap.

I've been using computers since the 80s and used the same MS-DOS systems you did, with the difference that I was an adult when I was using them and that MS-DOS was state of the art. I opted out of the Microsoft ecosystem around the Win2k/XP times because the blackboxing became more and more restrictive. You should keep an open mind and not assume things about other people, you'll get farther in life.

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

I literally just explained I can't without deleting a terabyte and change of data that I don't have the storage space to exfiltrate just to have a shell on the hardware that WILL let me change the finer details of configuration. One of these days, when I've got the expendable income to do so, I'll probably get around to throwing a few terabytes of SSDs onto an old decapitated HP laptop I've got on hand and use that as a NAS, but this is what works with what I've actually got on hand at the moment.

Sad story. Hopefully you spend a bit more time researching building a NAS instead of setting up one that is misconfigured and leaving you without the ability to fix it.

Why not name and shame here so other people don't buy the same NAS?

 

[Rancid Xylitol]

I've been using computers since the 80s and used the same MS-DOS systems you did, with the difference that I was an adult when I was using them and that MS-DOS was state of the art. I opted out of the Microsoft ecosystem around the Win2k/XP times because the blackboxing became more and more restrictive. You should keep an open mind and not assume things about other people, you'll get farther in life.

"If you've edited 0 or less registry keys today, lower your voice when talking to me"

 

[wmaf1488]

View attachment 7290137
Another day, another amazing contorted YouTube face from OurGuy. How does a typical day go for Lunduke?

"Oh, it's 9AM, better practice my weird faces for my YouTube channel. OK, now 10AM. I better review every single Code of Conduct from every single OSS project to see if I have anything to whine about on YouTube. Nope, nothing there. Now, better join and read all the developer Discords to see if there's any salt there. Nope, OK, time to mine every forum. Aha! One random person equivocating Gnome to Antifa!! I can make a 6 hour video about this and use my face from earlier in the morning."

Lunduke's a weird guy... the subtext to his videos are like "look at these open source clowns: they spend all day talking about Nazis and being crazy". However, the difference is, GNOME and other projects still occasionally release interesting software whereas the only thing Lunduke releases is these awful YouTube videos and soyfaces.

Lunduke's output makes the world dumber just by existing. Open Source projects are clogged with nerds. It's no wonder you find a lot of odd behavior. Maybe when Lunduke releases something of note I'll care a bit more about what he has to say.

As much as he tries, he can't ever be as cringe as the gnome people

 

[One Angry Computer]

As much as he tries, he can't ever be as cringe as the gnome people

GNOME should be rebranded as "GOBLIN" for how utterly insidious and obnoxious the devs are.