Tabletop Community Watch

They were proud of not having proper project or business management as part of the interviews and presentation at Adepticon, with comments implying they believe people who know how to run a business would just ruin things. They really believe they can just cheer their way to success.
I know Dwight Cenac's post apparently went viral and stirred up a lot of people, but man, way to go TC guys to very much prove his point:
This isn’t a business. It’s a hobby club pretending to be one.

Anyway, onto part 2 of comments. Split into a new post since I know the other one was about to hit size limits.

This time rcorbyc is the one with a long post we're going to text paste.
What an absolute load of utter tripe. Literally the only thing that you get right is one of the HTS codes, and that tariffs aren't 245%. The thing is, it's already been told to you that the HTS website IS NOT UP TO DATE and that Donald's moronic EO breaks WTO MFN status.


But let's take a look at some the garbage you're spewing and debunk it, shall we?


"CMON has a well-documented history of:

  • Failing to deliver to customers
  • Surprise-gouging backers with last-minute shipping hikes
  • Refusing to own up to delays and screwups
  • Acting with arrogant impunity because they know people will keep paying"
Failing to deliver to customers? Where, pray tell did you get this from? Which CMON campaign has failed to deliver to customers? Which is the campaign that delivered nothing? Oh, that isn't the case? Are CMON slow? Absolutely. Have they had delays with most of their projects? 100% Have they delivered on every single project they've said they would? You bet your lying ass they have. There are plenty of things wrong with CMON's business practices, but just making things up to say they've not delivered to customers is the sour grapes of a bitter man who lives in the shadow of more successful companies.


Then we get into your absolute lie bonanza about tariffs. But you've already been taken to task on this in other comments, so there's little point in repeating that. Let's just move on.


But, let's go to your attacks on Cephalofair. Now, I say all the following as someone who has absolute zero love for the company, and thinks Isaac and his sycophants are the some of the most self righteous jerks in the industry. But none of that gives any credibility to your "arguments" and complete lies. Cephalofair never said they were being hit with 245% tariffs, so your "real talk" you claim "Cephalofair’s $4 million panic hinges on the idea that they’re being charged a 245% tariff. They're not." is a complete fabrication. Cephalofair LITERALLY NEVER SAID they were being charged a 245% tariff. EVEN YOU STATED that earlier in your own BS article. You admit they talk about a 145% tariff but then you try to pull a fast one on readers to say their numbers are based on a 245% tariff. You can't even keep your lies internally consistent (gee, you're a bit like that orange dude you appear to worship in that regard).


You try to talk about them shipping Gloomhaven by quoting them as "4. “Our last major project shipped 140 ocean containers from China." Yeah, you know what they "LAST MAJOR PROJECT" was? FROSTHAVEN. You know, the thing that DID ship... and those 140 containers were bound for destinations ACROSS THE GLOBE, not just the US. If only you understood the meaning of the English language and understood that "last project" is not "current project" - but I guess those simple details are beyond your understanding, or don't fit your agenda of lies, so you try to hoodwink anyone unfortunate enough to read your drivel. Thus EVERYTHING else that you say on that topic is COMPLETE FABRICATION, because you simply couldn't understand that simple distinction and simple English word meaning.


Not to mention that you count backers as "1 game per backer" ignoring that RETAILERS ARE ALSO BACKERS, and order multiple copies, or that backers may order add-ons, or a copy of Gloomhaven as well as Frosthaven, etc, etc. But you'd know that if you'd ever produced more than a single game, or one that has multiple SKUs... oh wait, HIGH NOON does have expansions and other boxes? So you're not actually incompetent and clueless on this point, but actively lying about to try to make it sound like you have a valid point to make? Oh, Dwight, what you do you know - you played yourself. And came out looking like a fool to anyone who was actually engaging their brain while reading your nonsense invective.


You also immediately make the false conclusion of taking their stated production cost (which you dispute, despite having ZERO evidence to support your claim - just "trust me bro" - no, I don't because you're proven repeatedly wrong in your commentary), and assume that they get to pocket EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR of difference between the production cost and the RETAIL PRICE. Are you abjectly stupid, or are you just posing this lie for your those gullible enough in your echo chamber to believe it? There are MULTIPLE other costs in addition to the pure production cost, and MULTIPLE people take a cut of the final retail price - including, you know, THE RETAILER THAT SELLS IT. Cephalofair does NOT take that entire difference, yet you're presenting that differential as their potential profit. Now maybe if you're an insignificant player in the space who sells small quantities of boardgames direct to a small customer base, you might not understand the actual reality of a boardgame business that engages in retail distribution, but if you're going to talk about companies that DO have that market, then you better make sure that you're actually understand that, and don't just spew uninformed commentary... but that's what you went ahead and did anyway.


One on hand, we have LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER in the industry, from the big to small players, many of whom manage all this stuff themselves, saying that it's broken. On the other, we have you, saying "nope, everyone else is wrong." You're not the "special person" that has uncovered a massive conspiracy and DONALD IS THE ONE TRUE GODKING. You're a gullible fool spouting stuff you have NO IDEA ABOUT, because you haven't actually SHIPPED ANYTHING that would be affected by these idiotic tariffs.


Simply put, your math would be pathetic for an elementary school student. Your knowledge of the tariffs is woefully ignorant. Your understanding of how businesses work that aren't small quantity production to a minuscule market of direct purchases is non-existent.


The only reputation that didn't make it out of the blog alive was your own.
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Now John Brieger... this one is another long one that gets interesting.
Hi, publisher here. This article has some very serious mis-information re: expected tariff rates. I highly recommend you edit the top of this article with corrections. What proof would you need to make sure this misinformation is not spread? I have 8500 units on the water (left China April 14), due to arrive May 11/12 under HTS 9504.90.6000, so I will shortly have very solid data.Nearly all board games are already being imported under HTS 9504.90.6000. I have worked on 90+ titles over the last decade and few to none fell under any other classification, with the exception of a low number of "numbers on cards" style games which fell under 9504.40.0000 (playing cards).Board games that left China on the water before 12 ET April 9th this year will be subject to 20% tariffs under current regulations. This is why you can see reports of publishers who are currently landing product and paying 20%.Boats after that date will be subject to 20% IEEPA fentanyl tariff and an additive 125% "reciprocal" tariff. If your boat left China April 10, it likely does not land at a minimum until April 23. I put "reciprocal" in air quotes because it is in fact, not reciprocal based on the product codes of tariffed goods from China. Trump is breaking WTO MFN status with this EO. You talked about retaliatory tariffs, but the current EO is beyond retaliatory. Trump's administration has used trade deficits to calculate this rate, because, under their thinking, the deficit represents "not only non-reciprocal differences in tariff rates among foreign trading partners, but also extensive use of non-tariff barriers by foreign trading partners, which reduce the competitiveness of U.S. exports while artificially enhancing the competitiveness of their own goods. These non-tariff barriers include technical barriers to trade; non-scientific sanitary and phytosanitary rules; inadequate intellectual property protections; suppressed domestic consumption (e.g., wage suppression); weak labor, environmental, and other regulatory standards and protections; and corruption."Per the executive order, it applies to ALL PRODUCT CODES, except those listed in an exemption annex, and some exemptions related to goods under different tariff structures. none of the product codes for board games or card games are in that exemption annex. You are correct that the HTS website is not displaying this rate, but it doesn't mean the EO is not applying to our codes as written. So yes, I'm never going to be able to post an EO text listing 9504.90.6000 because they are only listing exempt codes or ones covered by a rate other than the 145% rate.


I encourage you to re-read section 3, implementation of the white house EO and see how it pretty clearly applies to goods that were previously MFN. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/regulating-imports-with-a-reciprocal-tariff-to-rectify-trade-practices-that-contribute-to-large-and-persistent-annual-united-states-goods-trade-deficits/

Which he then had a followup.
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Replying to
Dwight Cenac
“Funny how ‘tariff smugness’ is the label people use when they can’t refute the receipts.” Who else has used the phrase “tariff smugness” (google search returns zero results)? Don’t straw man my argument like I’m falling back on some trope in disagreeing with you. I coined that particularly for your post here. You seem to think you’re the one true tariff-understander who must condescendingly tell all the popular babies to stop lying about their financial situations.


Have you replied to any conversation on BGG about tariffs? No. Have you posted this in a forum devoted to board game discussions? No. You posted it on a blog that is, again, half hustle inspo posts and half tariff diatribes.


Three of your published blog posts are about “impact” and “hustle” and “core values” (key words taken from their titles) and three are about how, again, you’re the golden one who is the one true understander of tariffs. I wasn’t talking about your broken (at time of my original reply) link to preorder your book that no one asked for (yet fits pretty perfectly into the hustle and grind playbook of passive income generation; when’s the prerecorded seminar dropping?) when I alluded to hustle culture; at time of my post your blog had six entries and those were what I was referring to with the word “blog.”


Yes, I’ve got an issue with your tone. You obviously have an ax to grind with “the industry.” Referring to your tone as smug seemed like a pretty straightforward way of my commenting on it.


It all reeks of a right-wing, Facebook boomer-y smirkiness, like literally every other publisher is some Johnny-come-lately, a fresh off the turnip truck naif ready to be taken advantage of by Big Warehouse.


I wouldn’t share any of your posts; of course that was never the point. Sarcasm is sometimes hard to grok online so I’ll be a bit more direct re: my final line in my previous post. You seem to want to be a right-wing Jamey Stegmeier, influencing board game production and business with long blog posts full of “expertise.” He’s got a much bigger audience than you. That was my point. I have noticed that right-wing influencers and creators shy away from more mainstream outlets (BGG, large subreddits) to stay snug and cozy in their echo chambers owning the libs and stroking their egos. Gene from GMT wrote a pretty detailed update about how the tariffs will affect their company, and if I had to guess he probably aligns closer to you politically than most other publishers. But where’s the fun in critiquing him, I guess. He’s not a pronouns-in-bio guy on CNN.
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Replying to
rogeremiller
Hey Roger, I really appreciate you jumping in with this. Genuinely.

You’re clearly coming from a place of experience, and it shows — especially with a Customs rep in the loop and decades in the industry. That’s not something I take lightly.


That said, I think we might be talking about two sides of the same coin here.


You're absolutely right that the new executive order tariffs are executed through Section 99. But Section 99 doesn’t exist in a vacuum — it modifies the Harmonized Tariff Schedule, and the HTS classification at the point of entry is still what drives which section applies.


So if a product is correctly coded under 9504.90.6000, it should still fall under the 20% IEEPA duty, not the 125% reciprocal tariff or a fentanyl-linked enforcement measure.


And from everything I’ve seen (including cross-checking against the Annexes of the executive order and the latest ITC notes), 9504.90.6000 is still under MFN status, meaning it's not a reciprocal tariff target — because China never raised their tariffs on the U.S. for that code. That’s the whole point of the MFN protection.


So if someone is getting hit with a 145% or 245% stack under 9504.90.6000, that implies there’s either:


  1. A misclassification (like being filed under 9503), or
  2. An internal Customs decision we haven’t seen published yet (which would be… a bombshell).

And if that’s the case, I’d genuinely love to know. Not to win an argument — but because the whole point of my blog was to get past the fog and make sure the industry isn’t panicking over shadows.


If you end up confirming something definitive from your rep that proves 9504.90.6000 is now subject to stacked reciprocal tariffs, I’d welcome the info — and I’d update my post accordingly.


Until then, I’ll keep standing by the HTS classifications we’ve cited and the clear MFN logic that’s protected that code from the 125% spike everyone’s freaking out about.

Appreciate the dialogue. Hope you’re right there with me in hoping this mess settles soon.


Best of luck getting your game over here. When it lands, let me know. I'd love to buy a copy.
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Replying to
rogeremiller
Hey, really appreciate the level of detail and the good faith effort here — especially from someone who’s clearly not just reacting to headlines. And I totally agree, it’s a mess to sift through. I am mentally, physically and spiritually exhausted from all of this, so I am right there with you. But this is the kind of dialogue the industry needs right now.


You mentioned 9903.01.24 and 9903.01.63 — just to clarify for others reading: those aren’t product codes themselves. They’re tariff modifiers that apply an additional duty on top of the base HTS code, but only if that base code is listed in the related Section 301 annexes.


Now here’s the key point:

HTS Code 9504.90.6000 — the correct classification for board games — is not listed in the applicable Section 301 annexes.


It was originally included in 2018, but was explicitly removed before enforcement. And as of today, there has been:


  • No new Section 301 investigation targeting that code
  • No public comment period
  • No updated annexes adding it back in
  • And no formal enforcement notice for it under either 9903.01.24 or 9903.01.63

That matters, because even if someone at Customs is flagging these modifiers for a shipment, they legally can’t apply unless the code has been officially re-included. And right now? It hasn’t been.


But let’s game it out.


Let’s say, purely hypothetically, that 9504.90.6000 was added back into Section 301. What’s the worst-case stack?


  • Base IEEPA tariff: 20%
  • 301 Modifier under 9903.01.24: 25%
  • 301 Modifier under 9903.01.63: 30%

That’s a cumulative maximum of 75%, and even that assumes an aggressive scenario with both 301 codes applying — which would be unusual, if not redundant.


So where does the 145% number come from?


Honestly, I think it’s a conflation of multiple tariff programs, some of which don’t apply at all to MFN-classified goods like board games, and others that are simply not in force. Or it’s a result of misclassification — like if someone’s filing the shipment under 9503.00.0090 (miscellaneous toys), which is exposed to the 125% reciprocal tariff.


That’s why I’ve been so loud about getting your HTS codes right. If you’re importing under 9504.90.6000, and you’re not seeing it in the Section 301 annex, there is no legal pathway to 145% right now.


That said — I’d be really curious to hear what your Customs contact says. If there’s an internal update in play, a change in enforcement guidance, or anything being soft-circulated, I’d love to take a look. I’m not here to win points. I’m here to make sure we’re all playing with the same deck.


Thanks again for your diligence on this — feel free to reach out to me directly via DM or loop me in if you get anything new from your rep.


Always here to help.
Replying to
Dwight Cenac
I'm unclear as to where you've gotten those numbers, but they're wrong as of your time of writing.If you take a look at the actual rates published, you can pretty easily apply those. Let me plug in the relevant numbers for you:

  • 301 Modifier under 9903.01.24: 20% (This reads like it doesn't apply, until you read the note 2(u) it refers to, which applies a blanket 20% rate to most everything "product of China and Hong Kong.")
  • 301 Modifier under 9903.01.63: 125% (This reads like it doesn't apply, until you read the note 2(v) it refers to, which applies a blanket 125% rate to most everything "product of China, Hong Kong and Macau." Specifically in note 2(v)(xiii)(10))
These stack for a neat total of the 145% you've seen various people mention.Not just on 9504.90.6000.On everything product of China et al.That is, unless you're importing something subject to additional Section 301 import duties, in which case you may be seeing up to 245%, but that's not relevant for the board game industry.To give you some sources:https://hts.usitc.gov/search?query=9903.01.24You can find x.63 by scrolling down a few pages.Or better yet, find it, and the notes referred to here:https://hts.usitc.gov/reststop/file?release=currentRelease&filename=Chapter%2099(Notes are on pages 176 and 184. Searching for them is hell.)


Exemptions​

There are no exemptions to 9903.01.63, beyond a rare few, all itemized in its listing by referring back to other listings, but itemized in a more readable format in Executive Order 14257 (the EO that enacted the "reciprocal" tariffs, from section 3(b), page 11 onwards) and later "clarified" in this presidential memorandum to include some more categories not readily apparently exempted by the EO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/clarification-of-exceptions-under-executive-order-14257-of-april-2-2025-as-amended/But to be clear and save you the searching: unless you're selling oil, lumber products, raw minerals or very specific electronic (components) your products probably don't apply for any exemptions.


To be clear, the numbers named in EO 14257 are no longer current and have been raised. The latest EO concerning this can be found here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/modifying-reciprocal-tariff-rates-to-reflect-trading-partner-retaliation-and-alignment/The relevant section that raised the number in subdivision (v)(xiii)(10) of U.S. note 2 to subchapter III of chapter 99 of the HTSUS to 125% can be found in section 3c of this EO.

And of course there are de minimis exemptions, which are also a far cry from the pure exemption they have been. Currently, you're charged a minimum of $75 per postal package with contents produced in China worth under $800. With hikes up to $200 already laid out in an EO. But this is a completely different subject.If you'd be looking to avoid tariffs through using normal post though: forget about that.Either way, that is the "legal pathway to 145% right now" that you said doesn't exist.If you're not seeing it, you're simply not looking well enough.
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Replying to
Michael Mihealsick
Wow. That was a lot of words to deliver nothing of substance. I hope you don't write your own rulebooks.


But you know what, Mike? I'll bite.


Let’s get one thing straight: I’m not asking anyone to blindly pivot based on my blog. In fact, I’m encouraging the exact opposite. The entire article is built around one idea—do your own due diligence. Don’t take CNN’s word for it. Don’t take my word for it. Check the HTS codes yourself. Audit your paperwork. Verify your customs filings.


Now let’s address your bullet points:


  1. You’re absolutely right. The manufacturer puts the HTS code on the commercial invoice, and it’s up to the publisher to validate it. That’s exactly the point. If someone gets hit with a 245% tariff, that didn’t come from a random number generator. It came from somewhere in the supply chain. The question is: Who failed to catch it?Also...


    “Your freight forwarder does not declare the HTS code…”

    That’s not entirely true.


    In practice, freight forwarders absolutely play a role in HTS classification. You have zero excuse not to know this. Many publishers—myself included—have worked directly with freight forwarders to select or revise codes prior to customs filing. Freight forwarders often review the invoices, suggest codes based on product descriptions, or flat-out change them to “expedite clearance.”


    Some of them do this because they think it’ll help. Others do it because they’re lazy and just want the shipment through.


    I’ve personally been offered alternative codes by my forwarder without ever changing the product. So to suggest they’re just passive conduits of whatever the factory prints? That’s not just inaccurate—it’s dangerously naïve.


    This entire panic is proof that something is breaking down in the logistics chain. If manufacturers, publishers, and forwarders are all saying “it wasn’t me,” then guess what?


    Somebody’s not telling the truth.


  2. Yes, 9504.90.6000 is the correct code. That’s also in the blog. What I’ve pointed out is that other codes—like 9503.00.0090—have been used, and when they are, they trigger stacked reciprocal tariffs. The industry’s own panic is proof enough that mistakes are being made somewhere.


  3. HTS.usitc.gov is the official government site. If it’s outdated, we should all be concerned that no one seems to have access to updated official data. So what are importers and publishers referencing to justify claims of 145–245%? If we’re all flying blind, then anyone declaring hard numbers should show hard receipts.

    If there’s an official U.S. government publication listing HTS code 9504.90.6000 with a tariff higher than 20% under the IEEPA or reciprocal frameworks, I’d love to see it. As of now, the only binding source remains the Harmonized Tariff Schedule at hts.usitc.gov, and it doesn’t reflect the figures you're apparently clinging to like a lifeline that's trying to strangle your business. If someone has internal memos or predictions, those aren’t a substitute for published law.


  4. "...but this is consistent with the tariff rates set by the White House as checked at the imports' departure date from port." Dude… what are you even talking about?

    The White House hasn’t said a single word about 9504.90.6000. Not now, not ever. Because they don’t need to. That’s an MFN code—it sits in a completely different lane from the retaliatory tariff discussion. I literally broke this down line-by-line in the blog post. The 20% you’re seeing? That’s the IEEPA slap. It’s universal. It’s been there. It’s staying there. And the only reason you’re not seeing anything higher is because it was never supposed to be higher in the first place.


    Let’s walk through this real slow—using your panic math:


    Where does the “245%” panic come from?

    Answer:
    • Traditional Tariff (let’s call it baseline)
    • Plus IEEPA (Section 301 universal slap)
    • Plus the Reciprocal Tariff (100%+) = Total Armageddon
    Now here’s the part you’re still not getting:

    9504.90.6000 is an MFN code.

    That means it is not part of the reciprocal tariff hike.

    It never was. It never will be.

    Unless China somehow decides to violate the WTO and take itself off the MFN list, there is no mechanism for the reciprocal tariff to apply.


    So no, you’re not going to see some magical tariff explosion "when the next shipments arrive." Because the hike you’re warning people about isn’t coming. It’s never coming—on this code.


    Unless Trump or whoever completely rewrites the trade structure and replaces IEEPA with the reciprocal tariff and decides to call that the baseline—which they won’t, because that would be the same thing as making the IEEPA the new reciprocal tariff. And at that point, it’s not even the same conversation.


    So again—what exactly are you trying to say here?

    Because all this hand-waving about “departure dates” and “White House updates” sounds less like a fact check and more like a weak attempt to sound credible while stirring up confusion.


    And that? That’s not helping anybody.
  5. Nobody knows what to expect? That’s fair. But uncertainty isn’t an excuse for fearmongering. It’s a reason to slow down, verify your codes, read the Federal Register, and respond with facts, not vibes, which is precisely what I wrote in my blog.


    And again... the White House is never going to tell you anything different about this code because it’s not part of the Reciprocal Tariff program—and never will be. Waiting for a change here is like waiting for the sun to turn blue. If your business plan hinges on that, you’ve already lost.


    Thank you for claiming to disagree with me while literally proving my point.


  6. Cephalofair sells more than I do?

    You’re right, Flotilla. Cephalofair has sold more games than I have.

    And with all that money, reach, and industry influence,

    they still got flattened by a basic logistics mistake I caught in my spare time.


    Bravo.


    If that’s your gold standard for leadership, then congratulations.

    You’re next.

Bottom line: This blog isn’t about “being right.” It’s about demanding receipts. It’s about telling publishers that if you’re going to blame Trump, or tariffs, or the economy, you’d better bring the paperwork.


Because some of us are still here doing the work without $5+ million in crowdfunded capital and a prime-time TV interview.


But hey, if you got better data, I’ll be the first to update the blog.


Until then?

Facts > fear.
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Anyway, onto part 2 of comments. Split into a new post since I know the other one was about to hit size limits.
So it still looks like a bunch more people arguing with feelings, rather than actually wanting to dig through shit, file paper work, do the appeals etc. with one person willing to have an actual discussion but still hadn't proven him wrong yet.

The simple fact is the world(not just the US) let china fuck everyone in trade because you'll never be able to compete with the labor costs and immediate access to literally everything in the supply chain being practically within arms reach. There's a reason companies have been moving manufacturing out of china and to vietnam/thailand/malaysia/etc. for years now because some dumb shit like this was bound to happen eventually. Meanwhile every european(and some others) miniature/boardgame company that took the profits and actually re-invested them into the company(not just talking about GW here) simply doesn't have this problem except for import of lower value goods(as in materials) which weren't a big deal anyway. Who besides GW? Warlord Miniatures, Wargames Atlantic, Archon Studios, Mantic Miniatures, Kromlech, Delano Games, Cartamundi previously mentioned(also owns some factories in Europe), Ludofact, and that's just off the top of my head.
 
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Reactions: Flexo
Not surprising ttrpg design is filled with man babies I have never met more toxic backstabbing underhanded people and I work in construction
If watching the TTRPG space has taught me anything, it's that if you all of the cluster-B personality disorders were incarnated in human forms and had to get jobs, they'd all become game designers.
 
They were proud of not having proper project or business management as part of the interviews and presentation at Adepticon, with comments implying they believe people who know how to run a business would just ruin things. They really believe they can just cheer their way to success.
It is amazing the amount of people who think that deadlines and proper project management are nothing but tools of oppression by know-nothing suits to ruin their passion project. Maybe there is a point about plenty of works coming out undercooked due to being rushed out for the high seasons during the frontier days of the medium, but letting people run wild with their side of a project and claiming it will release “when it is done” is how you get vaporware disasters like Star Citizen.
 
They were proud of not having proper project or business management as part of the interviews and presentation at Adepticon, with comments implying they believe people who know how to run a business would just ruin things. They really believe they can just cheer their way to success.
Cold take: We're getting 40 more years of Warhammer while TC is going to die by Q1 2027, mark my words
 
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It is amazing the amount of people who think that deadlines and proper project management are nothing but tools of oppression by know-nothing suits to ruin their passion project. Maybe there is a point about plenty of works coming out undercooked due to being rushed out for the high seasons during the frontier days of the medium, but letting people run wild with their side of a project and claiming it will release “when it is done” is how you get vaporware disasters like Star Citizen.
Kinda? Chris Roberts basically had Microsoft put a gun to his head loaded with a lawsuit over I believe it was freelancer(might have been starlancer? I forget which name but it was the 2nd game), and even at Origin Systems he was a massive fuck up known for feature creep. But I'd say a key difference between him and a lot of the people in the tabletop gaming space is that Roberts was at least known for adding shit to games(unnecessarily a lot of the time like accurate water buoyancy in star citizen) these people don't actually do much of anything without a sword of damocles over their head known as project management.

But yes, it's artsy fartsy types who can't run a business and believe that the business people exist only to screw them. That happens, especially when accountants get involved but there are still reasons for it and the intent usually it to create a functioning business(usually).

And if you think this stupidity is bad, there's the "Zak S" dumpsterfire from the TTRPG side of things where most of the damned industry basically spoke to eachother via whisper network and decided that because he wasn't particularly friendly to chat with, to just completely fuck him with all kinds of sexual assault allegations and shit as a #metoo thing, that he eventually had to sue over and won but still wound up blacklisted in the end(it's a mess that went of for damn near 7 years I think it was? trying to ban him from conventions and shit).
 
But yes, it's artsy fartsy types who can't run a business and believe that the business people exist only to screw them. That happens, especially when accountants get involved but there are still reasons for it and the intent usually it to create a functioning business(usually).
Two articles come to mind, which I consider required reading for tabletop nerds. I've probably linked them before.

The first is Social Gentrification. This is what happened to TTRPGs like D&D and what they desperately want to do to 40k. Since they couldn't, they did it to Battletech instead.

tl;dr: "Nerd things are cool but Nerds are still nerds. Tourists want to experience the cool nerd shit but nerds drive away tourists. The answer? Drive away the nerds and steal their shit so Tourists feel safe."

No hipster cunt from the longhouse who watched Critical Role will ever stay 5 minutes in a FLGS, because FLGS are full of "that guy" and his friends. People with no social skills, who act in ways hipster douchecunts from the longhouse find unappealing. Being an autistic dick (aka, nerd subculture) is not only the best "that guy" and his buddies can do socially, it's also a way to keep predatory normies -- tourists -- out. It's a defense mechanism.

But Critical Role is awesome and D&D is cool now, so the FLGS has to be cleaned up and "that guy" needs to either learn to be silent in the corner when the hipster douchecunts are visiting or just leave. But whereas the hipster douchecunts are just visiting -- a tourist -- and have a million other hobbies and social circles they can visit, "that guy" and the rest of the guys at the FLGS are there because this is as far as their social skills let them go. They have no other hobbies, no other social circles, to flee to. The FLGS -- smelly, dingy, dark, with people who are jackasses to each other and autisticly obsessed with dice -- is the best they have and will ever have.

Thus, their hobby becomes gentrified. Those that can still survive in the new hobby -- being nice, kissing the feet of the tourists, dumbing down shit so some bimbo who doesn't want to spend any more time than needed to understand or enjoy the hobby -- do ok in the new hobby space. Those that don't get fucked, but that's ok, becuase they're "that guy" and no one really likes them. But sure sucks if you're "that guy," you now have less than the little you already had, just so tourists that had everything can have more, but that's ok! There are more tourists than "that guy" (and in the case of political spergs, they have the right opinions which means "fixing" hobbies to share them is inherently a good act) so the total amount of good in the world increased. Unless you're "that guy."

4chan is a horrible place and everyone hates it, but there are a lot of young nerds who would have killed themselves if not for 4chan. This sounds completely insane to every normie but is absurdly obvious to everyone who has ever really stayed on 4chan for any length of time. Tumblr is probably very similar for the lefty version of "that guy." The Farms...?

They did this in vidya -- the idea of barrens chat in WOW would never fly now, the idea of a difficult MMORPG like Everquest is unthinkable now, etc. They did it in comics, dumbing it down so that the average comic is about 5 superpowered women doing their best Sex in the City impression while talking about yummy foodsy, yay. And they want to do it to 40k, but so far the price of the hobby and the "chuds" have kept them from cleaning up the place -- and boy howdy, that pisses them off.


The other article is linked in the above. "Geeks, MOPs, and Sociopaths in subculture evolution." We would probably call it Nerds, Tourists, and Businessmen.

tl;dr:

Nerds create a hobby.
The hobby creates fans, another type of nerd.
Nerds create things, like lore and games. Fans play them but don't create, but do contribute in other ways (money, time, organization, hype).
Tourists like shit, but aren't fans. They show up, enjoy the hobby, then leave. They contribute as little as humanly possible.

Tourists aren't running forums, or tweeting about it other than surface level shit. Fans make the hobby take up a decent sized chunk of their free time.

Nerds welcome tourists, at first. Tourists help the hobby grow. Nerds want their cool shit to be shared. Fans do the same ting, but there's always more tourists than fans. Even barely contributing, Tourists outpace the fans, really quickly, in surface level, shallow support.

Fans put up with the tourists at the start, but fans are in it for the hobby, not to placate themselves towards tourists demanding normie shit. They didn't sign up to be a babysitter for some hipster douchefuck who utterly hates them but wants to experience the cool new thing they helped create. This is all very similar to high school, when the same asshole tourists would have stolen their D&D books and ruined their shit for being a "creepy nerd weirdo." Plus, tourists don't actually help. They show up, pay as little as possible, but don't do shit -- they don't bring pizza to the FLGS gaming night, they don't buy random splat books they don't need cause the FLGS owner is doing bad this quarter, they don't have long debates on fun D&D builds outside of D&D night, they don't help the kid who can't drive carpool to D&D night.

This is around when businessmen show up. Nerds and fans have created something cool. They've created "cultural capital." They've created something that can be SOLD. Fans have created "social capital" -- a network of nerds, fans, and a nebulous following of tourists. CUSTOMERS. But tourists (and fans to a lesser extent) and the creations the Nerds made can be farmed for "capital capital" -- MONEY. Nerds and fans don't know how to do that, but the businessmen sure do.

Businessmen swoop in around this time and immediately seek to exploit the shit out of the Nerds. They pretend to be Nerds -- creatives, not fans, often making soulless but polished imitations of the nerdy creations. They out-do the nerds with social stuff, like dressing nicely, or talking to tourists. The Nerds and Fans may realize these new guys are full of shit, but they generally don't know what the scheme is, and even if they do they can't really stop what's coming. For D&D, this was the assholes that created Critical Role. In Battletech, this was your activist types that infiltrated and took over CGL. Comics, it was your hipster cunts that took over Marvel and DC, making soulless, brain dead comics.

The tourists don't care. They now have a "nerd that speaks like a human being." The new guys look like they're in charge of the cool things, only they're not creepy like that weird Gary Gygax or Zak S guy. The businessmen take over, pushing the nerds into subservient roles -- either the businessmen make knockoff products that are appealing to tourists, but lack any soul, or they use sociopath tricks to take over the existing product. The nerds are still around -- they don't own the product anymore, but they can still work on it, if the businessmen let them -- and the fans are allowed to stay as long as they remain useful suckers and idiots and free labor and never, ever upset the businessmen or the tourists.


This -- gentrification, and sociopaths subverting and stealing a hobby -- has happened in every single nerdy hobby that has ever went mainstream. The exception is if the businessmen don't arrive before the fans get fed up with the tourists and the hobby collapses before they can infiltrate and subvert it. And when there's SOMETHING else that keeps this shit from happening -- in 40k, that's the price and the fans all being various degrees of "that guy," although they're slowly doing it.
 
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The first is Social Gentrification. This is what happened to TTRPGs like D&D and what they desperately want to do to 40k.

tl;dr: "Nerd things are cool but Nerds are still nerds. Tourists want to experience the cool nerd shit but nerds drive away tourists. The answer? Drive away the nerds and steal their shit so Tourists feel safe."
I've seen that happening in so many communities, it's not even funny. And every single time it happens, I'm reminded of this comic:

you-do-not-fit-in-here.webp

I'm beginning to think this is just the curse of cool shit. Once the Eye of Sauron that is a marketing department full of assholes with MBAs turns to look at your hobby, then deems it "potentially profitable' and either creates or props up a simplified/watered down version for mass-consumption, you're fucked. Your only hope is that the corpos pushing it are so incompetent they can't get enough tourists in to completely fuck up the space, and even then autists like troons are gonna hang around because they decided it's "their" place now, because [Corporation] said "this hobby is for everybody".

The comparison is gentrification, but in some cases it's more like aggressive colonialism. A moneyed interest sees profit, invades, backs locals that are amenable to their cause (money) so cause infighting and usurp leadership, then floods the place with foreigners to try to displace the locals.
 
The comparison is gentrification, but in some cases it's more like aggressive colonialism. A moneyed interest sees profit, invades, backs locals that are amenable to their cause (money) so cause infighting and usurp leadership, then floods the place with foreigners to try to displace the locals.
Oh, the alt-left definitely colonizes places. That's your "nice hobby nerd but it doesn't adhere to the socialist party rulebook" shit they pull. "We need female space marines because my religion states there's no difference between men and women and you not agreeing is heresy." "If you don't like the queer SCP logo we're shoving everywhere then just leave, bigot." etc etc. It works really well because the left in general flinches hard when facing a "protected class" even when it's NOT about protected class shit -- white feminists won't argue with black feminists even if black feminists are being disruptive, for example. The alt-left has figured out how to weaponize the pathological empathy the left has, which is... a problem for the rest of us.

Makes me wonder why the right doesn't do it right back to them. Imagine a SCP where the genderspecial bullshit like neopronouns are literally the result of a spooky brain worm or something. Imagine a CerebrusXT style "look, I made Fag Space Marine chapters" only it's "Look, I painted this kill team like Italians from WW2!"

They'd lose their fucking minds.

(They also lose their fucking minds if you point out they're cultural colonizers, since colonizer means bad person and they identify as good persons, so they can't be colonizers. QED.)


Another common meme version of the whole thing is the 4chan cycle of hobby degradation meme:

1746007478071.webp
 
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(They also lose their fucking minds if you point out they're cultural colonizers. The Human Domestication Guide weirdos had a huge purge of people over that last year, heh.)
Hol' up, run that by me again.

The Human What Guide? The fuck did I miss?
 
Hol' up, run that by me again.

The Human What Guide? The fuck did I miss?
haha. Off topic (and I nuked that line) but one of the lolcow collectives some of us are keeping an eye on for potential future milk. They have a thread, but since they're mostly harmless weirdos writing porn about dommy mommy alien plantgirl communist space lesbians swooping in to save all the trannies from having to work or make decisions, it got locked.
 
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On the topic of "grim dark" any of you heard of or remember 1490 Doom? It looks to be much smaller scale mordheim / frostgrave played on a 2ft circle. It randomly showed up on YouTube but when I checked the website I see this
Screenshot_20250501-063043.webp
A setting in which a medieval world is slowly being consumed by a rising gas doesn't need the "grim dark" label attached since that's basically an apocalypse. The only physical product the shop has in a sold out knight, a hat and a couple of t-shirts. It was getting awards in 2024 but they're only now bringing it out for crowdfunding.
It has a few unique elements including it's deployment but I can't help but feel it will end up like Trench Crusade as well.
 
On the topic of "grim dark" any of you heard of or remember 1490 Doom? It looks to be much smaller scale mordheim / frostgrave played on a 2ft circle. It randomly showed up on YouTube but when I checked the website I see this
View attachment 7302332
A setting in which a medieval world is slowly being consumed by a rising gas doesn't need the "grim dark" label attached since that's basically an apocalypse. The only physical product the shop has in a sold out knight, a hat and a couple of t-shirts. It was getting awards in 2024 but they're only now bringing it out for crowdfunding.
It has a few unique elements including it's deployment but I can't help but feel it will end up like Trench Crusade as well.
This sounds like a medieval donut steel of that WWI apocalypse game posted earlier.

And all of it sounds like the PvPvE of Kingdom Death without the thicc TnA.
 
On the topic of "grim dark" any of you heard of or remember 1490 Doom? It looks to be much smaller scale mordheim / frostgrave played on a 2ft circle. It randomly showed up on YouTube but when I checked the website I see this

This is the first I've heard of this one. I've just watched a couple of their videos and it seems pretty meh. 30 minute games on a 2ft board with 3 minis per side? Fuck, why even bother, just break out a pack of cards if you're that desperate for a game of something. Play snap.

When did tabletop players develop such a nigger time preference for their hobby? First they couldn't be bothered to paint things properly, and now it seems they can't even be bothered to play the game? I know the same thing happened to vidya and people now spend more time watching than they do playing, but I never expected tabletop to get so lazy and the industry get so creatively bankrupt so quickly.
 
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This is the first I've heard of this one. I've just watched a couple of their videos and it seems pretty meh. 30 minute games on a 2ft board with 3 minis per side? Fuck, why even bother, just break out a pack of cards if you're that desperate for a game of something. Play snap.

When did tabletop players develop such a nigger time preference for their hobby? First they couldn't be bothered to paint things properly, and now it seems they can't even be bothered to play the game? I know the same thing happened to vidya and people now spend more time watching than they do playing, but I never expected tabletop to get so lazy and the industry get so creatively bankrupt so quickly.
The soy critical role enjoyers have no time to have 3 hours of wargaming in between their wagecuckery and struggle sessions.
Either that or people taking the extreme of Warhammer being pointlessly prolonged sometimes and choosing to have briefer game systems instead
Atleast some brief systems are smart and are easily scaled up to have more points and time
 
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