US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/

 

[Nihil Jung]

Fascism just means "communism that I don't like." The full name of the Nazi party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party. When people tell you they are socialists, you should take them seriously.

They also get hung up on the nationalist angle of it, as if soviet russia wasn't also nationalist, just with different emphasis. The thing is they look at the socialist policies of Germany as exclusionary because it had its intended recipients as if there were tons of persona non grata entities, individuals and groups that were not extended "benefits" in communism.

Nazi Germany's obsession with eugenics is decidedly left wing.

 

[Conan]

Fascism just means "communism that I don't like." The full name of the Nazi party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party. When people tell you they are socialists, you should take them seriously.

counter point: our understanding and definition of socialism is dominated by Marxist socialism.
Prior to Marxism dominating this term, socialism was a spectrum of Catholic distributism, agrarian communalism, Fabianism, etc,

Tying the Nazi's to Marxist socialism is nonsense since Germans genuinely, genuinely, despised the Bolsheviks. Don't forget, there was a failed Bolshevik revolution in Germany post WW1.
Many rightist parties saw swelling support against Marxism because of this failed revolution, the Nazi's included.

Caveat: contemporary German politics did point out this seemingly paradoxical name of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party and it was ridiculed.
In practice, the Nazis had a mixed market command economy downright identical to what King FDR was doing, but I consider FDR a stalinist FAGGOT so in the end the interwar economies of all the major powers were
all shades of liberal socialism, nationalist socialism, and marxist socialism.

Caveat two: This is not an endorsement of socialism of any stripe, merely an attempt to delineate between very real strains of it that are diametrically opposed to each other.

tl;dr Socialism is in the Nazi's name but Democratic is in the name of North Korea and Red China. Not all socialism is Marxist.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

They also get hung up on the nationalist angle of it, as if soviet russia wasn't also nationalist, just with different emphasis. The thing is they look at the socialist policies of Germany as exclusionary because it had its intended recipients as if there were tons of persona non grata entities, individuals and groups that were not extended "benefits" in communism.

Nazi Germany's obsession with eugenics is decidedly left wing.

Yeeup, people forget Margaret Sanger was into eugenics and that was a core founding principle of Planned Parenthood: eliminate poor browns.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Your theory is mostly correct, but there is the same fatal flaw with it as with Afghanistan and Iraq, in that you are forgetting we deal with muslims. And for muslims nothing is worse and more degrading than being governed by kaffir, especially the US kaffir, and nothing is more glorious than dyeing in holy jihad against the kaffir for their pedophile prophet. So unless you set up concertation camps and unironically genocide all muslims, its not gonna work, you will forever get uprisings and the people will hate you just because you are different, and will never be like them.

Just do what the Mongolians did and you’d win.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

counter point: our understanding and definition of socialism is dominated by Marxist socialism.
Prior to Marxism dominating this term, socialism was a spectrum of Catholic distributism, agrarian communalism, Fabianism, etc,

Tying the Nazi's to Marxist socialism is nonsense since Germans genuinely, genuinely, despised the Bolsheviks. Don't forget, there was a failed Bolshevik revolution in Germany post WW1.
Many rightist parties saw swelling support against Marxism because of this failed revolution, the Nazi's included.

Caveat: contemporary German politics did point out this seemingly paradoxical name of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party and it was ridiculed.
In practice, the Nazis had a mixed market command economy downright identical to what King FDR was doing, but I consider FDR a stalinist FAGGOT so in the end the interwar economies of all the major powers were
all shades of liberal socialism, nationalist socialism, and marxist socialism.

Caveat two: This is not an endorsement of socialism of any stripe, merely an attempt to delineate between very real strains of it that are diametrically opposed to each other.

tl;dr Socialism is in the Nazi's name but Democratic is in the name of North Korea and Red China. Not all socialism is Marxist.

I respectfully disagree because it's all derived from a sick Hegelian inversion and it's important to note that different Marxist factions fucking hated and killed each other. So what if the Nazis hated Bolsheviks? Maoists hated Soviets and the Vietnamese hated the Khmer Rouge. Every government I just mentioned practiced ethnic cleansing of some sort. It's all the same "we can make a perfect society if only we have enough authority tee hee" bullshit.

When someone calls themselves a socialist, you should take them seriously.

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

By photoshopping himself as the Pope of the Catholic Church, I'm having a hard time believing the Trump loyalists who tell me he isn't a child rapist.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Fascism is right wing
Client state fascism is right wing because it is an artificial state designed to serve the interests of a different government, corporation, or entity in some way, think of the fascist states the US set up in South America.
National "Socialism" is right wing because it is a form of hypercapitalism. The nazis worked with and were funded by MIOs and foreign industrialists and in return they would deregulate the economy and increased miliatry spending. The 25 points were fake and gay and the "Socialism" in national socialism was just a campaign tool. The German communist party recognized this and called it out and is why they were the first people put into concentration camps, not jews.
I'm not going to go over the other autistic "third way" movements because they're all retarded forms of capitalism or communism and thus right wing or at the very least, center auth.

All collectivist systems are innately, intrinsically left wing, because the basis of them is reliance on some grand social contract with appeal to zero sum nonsense where people think that for someone else to have something, they must give something up.

It’s utterly retarded to say that it’s right wing whenever this type of system has a glimpse of sanity and decides to limit their jurisdictional claims to the borders of their own nation.

Like that is so offensively stupid, I’m mad at you for writing it here. Go the fuck back to Reddit and swim with the other retards in the kiddie pool

 

[autistic dog]

At the rate europe is going were gonna need a new way other than skin color to tell who is niggers

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Like that is so offensively stupid, I’m mad at you for writing it here. Go the fuck back to Reddit and swim with the other retards in the kiddie pool

Whatever you people do, stay out of the ball pit! I just cleaned it!

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Whatever you people do, stay out of the ball pit! I just cleaned it!

Redditors eat ass balls and this fucktard is a blue seal verified diaper sniffer

@autistic dog it’s the Belgians. It’s always the Belgians

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Redditors eat ass balls and this fucktard is a blue seal verified diaper sniffer

That's a little much. I like Conan. He gave me a seat on the Council of Racists.

 

[Candlelight Desolation]

Facism isnt right wing

You cannot spell the name of the ideology right. That speaks for itself.

It was literally created to be a new, better, Socialism. It's as left wing as it can be.

But the left uses it as a term that means "Bad person, not of our tribe." Same as "National Socialist." Anything to make other leftists to flinch and recoil from those they target.

>right wing Americans
>befuddled by actual right wing politics
Many such cases. - See also to how most Americans react to Monarchism.

This is a problem when you have people in "young" America trying to place political ideologies originating in "old" Europe through a Dem vs. GOP lens. From a POV of American history, "far right" politics would be akin to a lolbert slaver secessionist movement from 140+ years ago which didn't even last half a decade. By this "all variants of Fascism (or Fascism as a political concept period) is left wing because muh socialist/syndicalist" thinking, then Charles Coughlin, GL Rockwell, Charles Lindbergh, and Gerald Smith were all screaming lefties.

 

[Conan]

I respectfully disagree because it's all derived from a sick Hegelian inversion and it's important to note that different Marxist factions fucking hated and killed each other. So what if the Nazis hated Bolsheviks? Maoists hated Soviets and the Vietnamese hated the Khmer Rouge. Every government I just mentioned practiced ethnic cleansing of some sort. It's all the same "we can make a perfect society if only we have enough authority tee hee" bullshit.

When someone calls themselves a socialist, you should take them seriously.

1. The Nazi's were not marxist, they were not even a shade of marxist. The Nazis had a mix of sweeping privatizations of the government AND also sweeping nationalizations.
To label them as a subset of marxism because they called themselves socialists would be like labeling mao a second George Washington because he called china a republic.
"When someone calls themselves a republican you should take them seriously". This is boomer thinking, let's graduate from it.

2. Post World War I Germany chose the most vehemently anti-communist party to run it's government. Claiming the Nazis were somehow just another member of Club Red completely flies in the face of
how the average german viewed the very real possibility of either another Bolshevik revolution or an invasion from the Soviet Union in the future. We can sit around and play tiddlywinks about the definition of socialism
but to the people to whom this term mattered, the German voters of the 1930s, the Nazis were anti-communist neo-agrarian kooks but kooks who could make sure no bolshevik could cause issues in the government.

3. Name a modern state that didn't engage in ethnic cleansing at some point in it's history. We did too and I feel no remorse or guilt about it. Killing is not a left or right thing, it's a human thing before left and right was even a concept.

4. Boomer "left-rightism" spectrum autism doesn't fit everything and the Nazis were such an odd amalgamation of 1890s max weber political science theorycrafting, neo-folk-agrarianism, anti-Marxism,
Christian distributism, Prussian militarism, and about 15 other things, I really can't come to the same conclusion and lump them in with the Democratic Socialists (you know the party they BANNED for being left wing).
Hell, in some ways, we are FAR more socialist than the nazis were, we have so much public money going to the government for the defense industry and for social services. Our government is skads larger than the
apparatus the Nazis set up and like what this did to the nazis, its fucking bleeding us dry.

tl;dr the Nazis might has well have been from another planet with all the good a boomer tier political spectrograph does in analyzing it from that standpoint.

 

[Kulee Baba]

By photoshopping himself as the Pope of the Catholic Church, I'm having a hard time believing the Trump loyalists who tell me he isn't a child rapist.

Grandpa we live in the age of AI Slop. You just type a prompt and you get a silly image.

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

Grandpa we live in the age of AI Slop. You just type a prompt and you get a silly image.

Yes, I understand that AI allows child rapists to seek validation by cosplaying as the Pope of the Catholic Church.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

Yes, I understand that AI allows child rapists to seek validation by cosplaying as the Pope of the Catholic Church.

The bait is small, weak, and shriveled on this hook. Try again kiddo.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Yes, I understand that AI allows child rapists to seek validation by making them self look like even more like a child rapist.

Congrats you put more thought into it than the staffer who made it or Trump who saw it and said "Post it online." It's a meme you dip.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

"When someone calls themselves a republican you should take them seriously". This is boomer thinking, let's graduate from it.

No. My hatred for communism is too strong, I'm afraid.

We can sit around and play tiddlywinks about the definition of socialism
but to the people to whom this term mattered, the German voters of the 1930s, the Nazis were anti-communist neo-agrarian kooks but kooks who could make sure no bolshevik could cause issues in the government.

One could argue that this was more anti-Russian than anything else but I don't feel strongly enough to make an argument of it, so it suffices to say "fair enough."

3. Name a modern state that didn't engage in ethnic cleansing at some point in it's history. We did too and I feel no remorse or guilt about it. Killing is not a left or right thing, it's a human thing before left and right was even a concept.

There is a difference between killing a group of people "because fuck 'em, that's why" and "because killing these undesirables will make society better," which I argue is a feature - not a bug - of the weird inverted Hegelian/Weberian political systems of the late 1800s to the mid-20th century. That said, your point is still valid and taken.

4. Boomer "left-rightism" spectrum autism doesn't fit everything and the Nazis were such an odd amalgamation of 1890s max weber political science theorycrafting, neo-folk-agrarianism, anti-Marxism,
Christian distributism, Prussian militarism, and about 15 other things, I really can't come to the same conclusion and lump them in with the Democratic Socialists

This is also a very good point. The Nazis were an odd amalgamation, but my view is their genesis comes from the same fucked up interpretations of Continental philosophies of the time period as Marxists. Fascism did not develop separately from Marxism, but in response to it, and shares many features. However, this is a philosophical discussion that probably doesn't belong here. I think it's good enough to say you've made some very valid points and I don't need to delve into my autistic obsession with Western political philosophy.

TL;DR: Hegel was a mistake... the poor bastard.

 

[Napoleon Bonerfart]

Congrats you put more thought into it than the staffer who made it or Trump who saw it and said "Post it online." It's a meme you dip.

Yes, a child rapist such as Donald J. Trump will use his position of power to make lighthearted jokes to soften the blow over the fact that he frequently had 15-ways with Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein, and 12 Prepubescent minors.

 

[Tanuki Mixed Nuts]

Arguing over whether [insert ideology] is right or left wing is incredibly retarded. We live in a world where people proclaim Islam is Feminist, where there are MAGA drag queens, and other numerous contradictory things. If there isn't a horseshoe for ideologies to find themselves on, there is surely a massive clusterfuck of squiggles they can find a home on. Playing these team games is brainlet nigger shit. "Erm actually everything bad in the world is [insert your opposition]'s fault." Some ideologies are retarded, and they might be closer or further away from mine than I would like. That's just reality.

The bait is small, weak, and shriveled on this hook. Try again kiddo.

He can't even be assed to use AI to cosplay a fisherman.