US US Politics General 2: Hope Edition - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
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I'm going to laugh the moment we turn into the UK and we start arresting people over speech made online. Oh. Wait. That actually happened under the last administration.
 
I'll take your word for it, but I cannot say that I have noticed. I'd say that usually those three categories have a combo of issues they go ham on - usually that exact combination, funny enough.


That's what I'm saying; the problem here is that in this specific kind of topic the tendency is extremely prominent.
Okay, I'll explain why your attempt at paraconsistency was poor in as respectful a tone I can since you're not being belligerent.

Your position here:
that the porn thing draws in people with one-track mindsets who only vociferously talk like that about the porn thing. By contrast, the things you cited were usually multi-topic orators and the attacks were thus disingenuous.
The core difference is that there really does exist a subset of people who only seem to care about free speech to defend their fetish material.
requires me to accept that you know the following things you cannot possibly know (and yes libshits use this in defense of all of the slanderous bullshit they spew too, it's not an original defense of the 'but muh single-issue obsessives' viewpoint):

A: That you definitively understand how many of the people in all topics you're talking of are 'multi-topic orators' as opposed to merely being single-issue obsessives. You cannot possibly have any real metric not merely due to the size of the groups and the timescale over which you're making this assumption, but also due to the fact almost all of the people you're speaking of engage in these conversations pseudonymously/anonymously, so there's not even a reliable metric to track them even if you had some miraculous way of doing so via surface-level scraping of discussions globally for the past ten or twenty years of the Internet's discussions on these topics and parsing that information to have a satisfactory data set for this assessment.

B: That you with complete and inerrant accuracy know the sincerity of each and every interlocutor to an extent that would give you an accurate assessment of the political landscape. Meaning, since most of the people you're talking about engage in these discussions pseudonymously/anonymously there's no way to know how many are actually the people you're speaking of as opposed to bad-faith actors amplifying a small minority through imitation and socking.

It also runs into the realistic problem that:

The closer the topic gets to what is perceived to be a violation of fundamental rights or an existential threat - which giving the government what would effectively be a greenlight for egress into powers they've salivated over since the passing of the Patriot Act will definitely be perceived as both - the more likely all interlocutors regardless of characteristics otherwise are going to be heated to a degree that will give them the appearance of being 'single-issue obsessives' rather than 'multi-topic orators' because even if they feel similarly on multiple topics, in the moment it's easiest to accuse your opponent of being a 'single-issue obsessive' as they're clearly going to be acting the same way one might due to the severity of the issue at hand.

TL;DR: Your logic is still whack, retarded, and is no different in composition than the same stupid shit libshits say to defend the exact same logic you're saying somehow is 'different when we do it'. It's not.
 
I understand your concern and I see where you’re coming from. If you can’t accept the ID for access do you have a better solution for the problem or are you of the mind that this isn’t something that should be regulated at all?
Why are parents not doing their job my problem and something that requires government intervention? Does alcohol need to be banned because some people use it irresponsibly? Do cars need to be banned because some people crash them? Do guns need to be banned because some people use them for murder? It's the exact same kind of logic.
 
Like go view the topics in the section of the forum this very thread is in, there's like 3 articles about how someone in the UK got arrested for saying something on the internet the government didn't approve of.
And 99% of the time those people got arrested because they were dumb enough to say that shit on a normalfag website like Twatter or Kikebook (naively believing they actually had freedom of speech in this country), under their real name, using their real personally identifiable information.

What happens when everything you post on the internet is tied to your real name and your real personally identifiable information?
 
Why are parents not doing their job my problem and something that requires government intervention? Does alcohol need to be banned because some people use it irresponsibly? Do cars need to be banned because some people crash them? Do guns need to be banned because some people use them for murder? It's the exact same kind of logic.
alcohol, cars, and guns all require ID you dumbass
 
Does alcohol need to be banned because some people use it irresponsibly?
If you are under 21, alcohol is banned.
Do cars need to be banned because some people crash them?
If you are too young for a drivers licence or you haven’t earned it, you can’t drive
Do guns need to be banned because some people use them for murder?
Definitely not. But for the other 2 things there are guard rails on their use, specifically tied to age.
Is the porn ID requirement any different from these things? If so why? And why do you figure that this law is the back door to tyranny compared to say needing ID for booze.
 
Why are parents not doing their job my problem and something that requires government intervention? Does alcohol need to be banned because some people use it irresponsibly? Do cars need to be banned because some people crash them? Do guns need to be banned because some people use them for murder? It's the exact same kind of logic.
Just wanted to point out that while bad things can happen with those examples there's also more good that comes from them. Cars for example provide transportation for people, goods, and services. What good does porn provide for society that would be akin to that?
 
The closer the topic gets to what is perceived to be a violation of fundamental rights or an existential threat - which giving the government what would effectively be a greenlight for egress into powers they've salivated over since the passing of the Patriot Act will definitely be perceived as both - the more likely all interlocutors regardless of characteristics otherwise are going to be heated to a degree that will give them the appearance of being 'single-issue obsessives' rather than 'multi-topic orators' because even if they feel similarly on multiple topics, in the moment it's easiest to accuse your opponent of being a 'single-issue obsessive' as they're clearly going to be acting the same way one might due to the severity of the issue at hand.
This is what is so tilting about this discussion because it's not even like the Patriot Act is some obscure piece of legislation from the 1830s only history geeks would know about. And it's the same story as back then, everyone who was against mass government surveillance was just a terrorist sympathizer who hates America, same lack of ability to actually argue in favor of what they wanted without resorting to ad-homs and trying to change the subject every 5 seconds.
 
Just wanted to point out that while bad things can happen with those examples there's also more good that comes from them. Cars for example provide transportation for people, goods, and services. What good does porn provide for society that would be akin to that?
this is the true issue, in a just world it'd be outlawed outright and the ID law wouldn't need to exist
 
Just wanted to point out that while bad things can happen with those examples there's also more good that comes from them. Cars for example provide transportation for people, goods, and services. What good does porn provide for society that would be akin to that?
It's not about the good of porn, it's about the bad of what that kind of legislation means. When the government is able to restrict internet access based on purely partisan morality you're opening the door to that same standard being applied when those same libs you're trying so hard to own are in power and you can be sure they're going to do the same thing to you. When they petition for mandatory government IDs to access some things on the internet, it's not long before that gets expanded to include more and more content. Governments do not give up or restrict their power, they always expand and abuse it.

And that's just talking about governments, that isn't even talking about risk adverse big tech companies. If the legislation is so vague that anything "objectionable" being shown to a minor is legally actionable they'll lock their websites down. You know how now you can't browse Youtube without an account because they force you to sign-in to view anything their jeet algorithm flags as 18+? Have fun putting in your government ID in order to view lolcow content on Youtube.
 
I was about to go to sleep. But then suddenly it occurred to me…
There are Jews in Massie’s district?! Appalachian Jews from rural Kentucky? I need to see this before I die 🍿
Last time he sperged out about this, it turned out that the “constituent” he was complaining about Massie refusing to meet was a lobbyist who didn’t even live in his district and had attacked him in the past.
 
This is what is so tilting about this discussion because it's not even like the Patriot Act is some obscure piece of legislation from the 1830s only history geeks would know about. And it's the same story as back then, everyone who was against mass government surveillance was just a terrorist sympathizer who hates America, same lack of ability to actually argue in favor of what they wanted without resorting to ad-homs and trying to change the subject every 5 seconds.

Dumb retards thinking this won't completely backfire because "porn bad", "gooning bad" (so it's okay), are so completely backwards and retarded that they haven't been paying attention to what the government does and IS. The government doesn't give a shit about protecting YOU. They want to protect their jobs. Therefore, they'll go with the mob, because they don't want to get tossed out onto the street.
 
It's not about the good of porn, it's about the bad of what that kind of legislation means. When the government is able to restrict internet access based on purely partisan morality you're opening the door to that same standard being applied when those same libs you're trying so hard to own are in power and you can be sure they're going to do the same thing to you. When they petition for mandatory government IDs to access some things on the internet, it's not long before that gets expanded to include more and more content. Governments do not give up or restrict their power, they always expand and abuse it.
WHY IS YOUR TEXT TINY
 
accept that you know the following things you cannot possibly know
Okay, look, I'll even admit this whole thing is correct. You are absolutely right on a technical level.

The thing I am trying and failing to convey is that even if you are technically correct, it does not matter because it looks a certain way if not viewed from a technical level.

I am mostly focused on this kind of thing from a different angle of "what secures victory for position ABC?" And unfortunately the ulterior motive insinuation attack works because there is a kernel of truth to it more often than not, even if imperfect. I don't like how easy the attack angle is because it undermines Internet free speech argumentation in general by association in my opinion.

That's it, really.
 
Dumb retards thinking this won't completely backfire because "porn bad", "gooning bad" (so it's okay), are so completely backwards and retarded that they haven't been paying attention to what the government does and IS. The government doesn't give a shit about protecting YOU. They want to protect their jobs. Therefore, they'll go with the mob, because they don't want to get tossed out onto the street.
Being illogical is not the same as being a retard. Even retards are capable, if slowly, of following logic.

These people are an echelon below retards.
it does not matter because it looks a certain way if not viewed from a technical level.
It does not 'look a certain way if not viewed from a technical level', it merely isn't unless you're a bad-faith actor and it is not different in substance from saying 'it looks like you're a closeted fag if you don't want gay marriage'.
there is a kernel of truth to it more often than not,
Is in conflict with:
I'll even admit this whole thing is correct
so pick one and stick with it if you want to continue this discussion. As it's just an extension of the paraconsistency you attempted to leverage to validate the viewpoint that there 'is a kernel of truth to it more often than not' in the first place.

There's no reason it cannot be equally stated that there is 'more often a kernel of truth than not' to the accusation that people against trannies in women's sports are secretly tranny-lovers, or that people against abortion are misogynist incels.

This is circumlocution and I'm not going to let you go without being called out for it. At this point out of respect, if anything, for the fact that you're even attempting a logical discussion rather than mindless monkey-tier shitflinging.

Edit: And I get, by the way, that you're 'on the same side' as I am. That makes this worse, not better.
 
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They shouldn't have that fucking data in the first place.
Then how do you respond to people pointing out there are ways to verify identity without porn sites even having the data? Or will you shift the goalposts again?
This whole "You're either with us or with the gooners" bullshit is just as disingenuous as George W. saying "You're either with us or with the terrorists!"

And you a hypocrite for pushing it. Not trying to be a dick, because I like you.

And Hegel laughs at us all from Hell.
Some of my posts are intentionally a little inflammatory and that was one of them. This is the Thunderdome, after all. My real, not-trying-to-be-cheeky response is here and, so far, no one's really responded to it or my points within. Take it however you like. I do not believe that pornography is the canary in the coal mine for free speech. When people say "requiring identification for online porn sites is a slippery slope to overbearing government control," but say nothing about requiring identification to do everything else, it makes me think they are either knee-jerk reacting to anything government, annoyed that their personal porn consumption will be inconvenienced, or - at the very worst - want kids to easily access pornography.

Lastly, although this is a separate issue, if people were really that concerned about ID verification to access porn sites, they would call their representatives about the legislation. I called my reps about a right to repair bill in my state (which passed) and doing that got me called all manner of bad names by anti-government types - none on this site, since it was before I joined - but a lot of people who caterwaul about government overreach also bemoan the impossibility of doing anything to stop it. If people are too cowardly to stand by their convictions and participate in the political process, then fuck 'em.

PS: I think, if Hegel knew what havoc he wrought centuries later, he would have become a carpenter or something.
 
Last time he sperged out about this, it turned out that the “constituent” he was complaining about Massie refusing to meet was a lobbyist who didn’t even live in his district and had attacked him in the past.
For fucks sake man, that’s like finding out Santa isn’t real. Very disappointing. Could you imagine?
I think Moishe is a Doggone gentile! I was fixin for some Matza balls but he done fucked up ma’s old recipe
 
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