Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Fig Kommandant]

They did that with video games like KOTOR and shows like the 2003 Clone Wars. It wasn't just novels. [...] I mean, we got the same thing with Taris, where you practically lived on that planet for 8 hours in KOTOR before Malak bombed it

Funny enough, I almost mentioned Drew Karpyshyn in my post. Whatever the medium is, I still maintain that it's about the writing style. And Karphyshyn did great work in his career overall (though I haven't played KOTOR yet). Karpyshyn also wrote the Bane trilogy and that's a really good example too where characters lead the story rather than having plot lead the story. I can't speak to your example, but for Bane or Andor, the characters are very compelling and interesting even if they're doing mundane stuff like playing cards or selling an artwork. Meanwhile again in Ahsoka, she "time-travels" in the world-between-worlds which should be more interesting but she's so bland that most of the audience don't find it interesting. That really highlights the point of character-driven vs plot-driven that most D+ shows fail but that Andor got right.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Funny enough, I almost mentioned Drew Karpyshyn in my post. Whatever the medium is, I still maintain that it's about the writing style. And Karphyshyn did great work in his career overall (though I haven't played KOTOR yet). Karpyshyn also wrote the Bane trilogy and that's a really good example too where characters lead the story rather than having plot lead the story. I can't speak to your example, but for Bane or Andor, the characters are very compelling and interesting even if they're doing mundane stuff like playing cards or selling an artwork.

Then it's time for you to play KOTOR. You can get it on multiple platforms, although I'd recommend the Xbox/PC version, as the Switch version has limited save files.

Although I would critique Drew Karpyshyn on his Revan novel. It felt like a rushed hatchet job. It's as much a betrayal of Revan as a character as Ahsoka and Rebels are for Thrawn.

Meanwhile again in Ahsoka, she "time-travels" in the world-between-worlds which should be more interesting but she's so bland that most of the audience don't find it interesting. That really highlights the point of character-driven vs plot-driven that most D+ shows fail but that Andor got right.

The problem is, Ahsoka is every stoic Jedi renegade that just feels generic. The natural result of a character having that many life-changing events done to her, but her author doesn't know what to do with her. So she stays the same bland Jedi without any defining character traits, because Filoni wants her to be your generic "strong woman" that can be sold to kids.

Me? I'd have made her something of a spook. Her line about forcing Morgan to give up the map by not going through standard Jedi protocol should've been built upon. She should've been a female Anakin where she's kind of a loose cannon, kind of super-aggressive, kind of willing to do anything to secure peace, even if it means piling bodies or Force-choking a bitch. The Alliance/New Republic kept her away from Luke so as to ensure her more negative traits didn't rub off on him, but they kept her around for black-ops wetwork that their more sanitized army can't get caught doing.

After everything with the Republic, the Jedi, the Empire, and her master's fall, Ahsoka wouldn't have a healthy outlook on life. And as she sees the New Republic copy the mistakes of the old, she acts more aggressive and more hawkish to ensure galactic peace, knowing that the lily-livered politicians of the New Republic have as much backbone as a chocolate eclair, so ensuring galactic peace would fall unto her hands. In essence, an Alliance version of Vader/Tarkin. Just like how Luthen is the Alliance version of Palpatine.

 

[SIMIΔN]

I still don't get what's great about Andor. Its just meh. It has good moments but nothing truly great

I'd say the prison arc is pretty great, someone really should cut it to a standalone film, as it doesn't need the context to work.

unnecessarily comedic hijacking and escape scene

Rey would have mastered the experimental starfighter instantly. And she wouldn't have needed no one to get her there.

as a "serious show for intellectuals

By 2025 standards, by Disney standards.

Acting like this is somehow the worst thing the Empire did

When Islamists blew up the two towers, there was a lot more anger compared to their countless atrocities in off the grid Africa and Asia.
Ghormans are wealthy inner rim humans, not walking carpets or techno barbarians.

 

[Bulk Bogan]

It's been said again and again and again but since the question's been asked another time, here's your answer: people say Andor is good because it's halfway competent, and Disney Star Wars at its pinnacle only gets there. It's mediocre at best, but that's the best there is when your competition is Ashoka or Ep9. The cameras stay pointed at the sets, actors say words in a reasonably coherent order, sometimes there's a Star Wars thing to look at. People make serious adult faces at serious adult topics and apparently a fat nigger bitch shucks and jives.

Stop watching it, stop, for the love of god please stop, just go look at all the other stwars stuff that exists, has existed, there's enough to keep you buried in content that at its worst is around Andor's level for a year, maybe more. Disney's slop isn't good, will never be good, you know this by now, but the good stuff is just right there.

 

[anti SJW]

I refuse to believe Andor is true Star Wars.

Everyone knows Stormtroopers can't hit anything.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

The problem is, Ahsoka is every stoic Jedi renegade that just feels generic. The natural result of a character having that many life-changing events done to her, but her author doesn't know what to do with her. So she stays the same bland Jedi without any defining character traits, because Filoni wants her to be your generic "strong woman" that can be sold to kids.

That’s it! That’s why I don’t get Ahsoka. She’s generic but treated as someone special.

The most significant change in her character is going from a spunky brat to someone who feels betrayed and voluntarily leaves the Jedi Order. But then she’s just there. I haven’t seen Rebels but it stands out that the most notable thing about her in that show is a brief realization that Vader is Anakin and being saved by time travel.

She should almost be driven mad by the concept of time travel. That she is probably dead in a majority of universes. Did she get pulled into a different universe?

She should have gone into a hermit lifestyle, contemplating the nature of the force, destiny, and all kinds of metaphysical crap.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

She should have gone into a hermit lifestyle, contemplating the nature of the force, destiny, and all kinds of metaphysical crap.

She should have gotten murked in that train car we see her in at the end of Clone Wars.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

since the old man rightfully pointed out

He was the only one that wasn't stupid

I still don't really care for Bo-Katan as a character. I don't buy her being a good guy.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I still don't really care for Bo-Katan as a character. I don't buy her being a good guy.

It's funny. A lot of people are now whining about how bad the Imperials are just because of that one massacre at that one plaza in Palmo, yet they act like Bo-Katan's a heroine who deserves the Mandalorian equivalent of the Chinese Imperial Seal/Excalibur, despite the fact that she joined a terrorist group that committed Wahhabist-style bombings, burned down a village full of innocents, and allowed gangsters to massacre Mandalorian citizens just so her boyfriend can look good arresting them. Oh, and said terrorist group tried to kill her sister more than once.

The Mandalorians have just as much blood on their hands as the Empire, especially if you dig into the KOTOR lore that Tony Gilroy is so eager to cite with his Rakatan references. Yet for some reason, the Empire is unforgivable, but the Mandalorians, we can make them the new mascots of the franchise after the Sequels made the Jedi suck green titty milk all over again.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

It's funny. A lot of people are now whining about how bad the Imperials are just because of that one massacre at that one plaza in Palmo, yet they act like Bo-Katan's a heroine who deserves the Mandalorian equivalent of the Chinese Imperial Seal/Excalibur, despite the fact that she joined a terrorist group that committed Wahhabist-style bombings, burned down a village full of innocents, and allowed gangsters to massacre Mandalorian citizens just so her boyfriend can look good arresting them. Oh, and said terrorist group tried to kill her sister more than once.

The Mandalorians have just as much blood on their hands as the Empire, especially if you dig into the KOTOR lore that Tony Gilroy is so eager to cite with his Rakatan references. Yet for some reason, the Empire is unforgivable, but the Mandalorians, we can make them the new mascots of the franchise after the Sequels made the Jedi suck green titty milk all over again.

Almec was the only Mando in Clone Wars who wasn't an idiot.

 

[BullfrogBill]

It's funny. A lot of people are now whining about how bad the Imperials are just because of that one massacre at that one plaza in Palmo, yet they act like Bo-Katan's a heroine who deserves the Mandalorian equivalent of the Chinese Imperial Seal/Excalibur, despite the fact that she joined a terrorist group that committed Wahhabist-style bombings, burned down a village full of innocents, and allowed gangsters to massacre Mandalorian citizens just so her boyfriend can look good arresting them. Oh, and said terrorist group tried to kill her sister more than once.

The Mandalorians have just as much blood on their hands as the Empire, especially if you dig into the KOTOR lore that Tony Gilroy is so eager to cite with his Rakatan references. Yet for some reason, the Empire is unforgivable, but the Mandalorians, we can make them the new mascots of the franchise after the Sequels made the Jedi suck green titty milk all over again.

To be fair, you can't really compare KOTOR and Filoni's Clone Wars as the same Star Wars because everything Old Republic related is Expanded Universe and Clone Wars is Disney "canon" Star Wars. Even if Filoni's CW existed before Disney had acquired Star Wars Filoni still made it perfectly clear early in the show's life that it was a completely separate entity than the EU.

 

[JayseeDenton]

in the D+ shows, you have Ahsoka, Acolyte characters making bland faces for 10 seconds

There's a lot of this in andor as well to be fair. Not from luthen and mothma so much but basically all the others.

The problem is, Ahsoka is every stoic Jedi renegade that just feels generic. The natural result of a character having that many life-changing events done to her, but her author doesn't know what to do with her.

I'm really tired of this trope in writing in general, and particularly star wars. People don't completely change their disposition just because of near death experiences or gained wisdom, they reflect more and can be more prone to anger or anxiety or such, but their day to day persona doesn't change. That's actually part of why PTSD is so hard to detect.

I'm convinced Ahsoka going from quirky, teasgin, creative, and optimistic to completely bland across the board is just because the actress can't act.

 

[draggs]

That’s it! That’s why I don’t get Ahsoka. She’s generic but treated as someone special.

because coomers coomed over her for years when the character was jailbait. and still do. no not over old rosario dawson ahsoka, they're still obsessed with and gooning over jailbait ahsoka and always will be. it didnt hurt that the character also wasn't generic in The Clone Wars movie and series but that got overshadowed by her being jailbait. adult ahsoka shows up and is the most generic jedi character ever. look at all the other force-sensitive characters over all the movies and TV shows, none of them fit the stale stoic bland stereotype as much as she does. they all get to have personalities but adult ahsoka doesnt

 

[Fig Kommandant]

There's a lot of this in andor as well to be fair. Not from luthen and mothma so much but basically all the others.

There's plenty of reaction shots, but they don't last literally 10 seconds and I haven't come across any that are bland, only some that are harder to read into from the context of why that character is reacting that way. But at least, characters react.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

To be fair, you can't really compare KOTOR and Filoni's Clone Wars as the same Star Wars because everything Old Republic related is Expanded Universe and Clone Wars is Disney "canon" Star Wars. Even if Filoni's CW existed before Disney had acquired Star Wars Filoni still made it perfectly clear early in the show's life that it was a completely separate entity than the EU.

Filoni and Gilroy both consider KOTOR to be canon. There's a Mandalorian Neo-Crusader helmet on the Trandoshan hunters' trophy case, and Filoni would've added Revan to TCW had he not been shot down by Lucas. And Gilroy has cited the Rakatan invaders TWICE now. So by that metric, the Mandalorians, whom Filoni and Disney try to portray as the new heroic force after the Jedi lost their spot in the Sequels, have more blood on their hands than Papa Palpatine.

And even if you cut all that out, the Death Watch Mandalorians, Bo-Katan especially, participated in terrorist raids against the legitimate Mandalorian government of Satine Kryze, staging bombings, false-flag attacks where criminals killed Mandalorian citizens, not to mention the burning down and massacre of innocent villagers in that one planet where they met up with Lux Bonteri and Ahsoka Tano.

Almec was the only Mando in Clone Wars who wasn't an idiot.

I'd say he's an idiot, too. He was about to sing before Gar Saxon shot him.

I'm really tired of this trope in writing in general, and particularly star wars. People don't completely change their disposition just because of near death experiences or gained wisdom, they reflect more and can be more prone to anger or anxiety or such, but their day to day persona doesn't change. That's actually part of why PTSD is so hard to detect.

Still, someone who's had that much experience done unto them would not be the blandest piece of toast Jedi. They'd have personality quirks. Or, if they want to go that route, have Ahsoka's lack of emotion be highlighted by other characters, and she explains that she's doing it because she's seen what emotions can do to even the best of the Jedi, (Anakin) and she doesn't want to become a second Darth Vader, so she's super-strict on the Jedi code and detachment/emotions.

I'm convinced Ahsoka going from quirky, teasgin, creative, and optimistic to completely bland across the board is just because the actress can't act.

I disagree. I think it's the writing. They're trying to make her generic enough so she can be marketable enough. Make her too whimsical and she comes off as not being serious. Make her too serious, and she comes off as a killjoy. So she's set to a neutral setting where she's neither.

because coomers coomed over her for years when the character was jailbait. and still do. no not over old rosario dawson ahsoka, they're still obsessed with and gooning over jailbait ahsoka and always will be. it didnt hurt that the character also wasn't generic in The Clone Wars movie and series but that got overshadowed by her being jailbait. adult ahsoka shows up and is the most generic jedi character ever. look at all the other force-sensitive characters over all the movies and TV shows, none of them fit the stale stoic bland stereotype as much as she does. they all get to have personalities but adult ahsoka doesnt

They should've coomed at the other Jedi women and Padme who are more adult and have a "defined" figure. Aayla Secura, especially. Ahsoka just comes off as a bratty teenager. Shaak Ti would've been my choice of Jedi bait, although that's the 2003 CW/TFU fan in me who remembers her valiant standoffs in Coruscant and Felucia. That, and she's more mature, age-wise, figure-wise, and emotionally. I can understand people who go for Luminara Unduli and Aayla Secura.

Ahsoka just seems like the kind of gal who'd be too emotional and immature to consider a life partner, let alone a sex partner. Never mind the fact that the brat ain't even legal, but even after she was, her judgement (saying that protecting Coruscant from a droid army is just "playing politics" while insisting the Republic aid a former terrorist to overthrow a legitimate neutral nation that's not bothering anyone) is rather unsound.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

Filoni and Gilroy both consider KOTOR to be canon.

*Some elements to be canon
Filoni's Clone Wars also had Bane. And that series is still canon under Disney, but the actual books from Karpyshyn aren't. It's a bit silly to try to argue for a canon across decades and tons of mediums, writers and two owners. Especially when Lucas himself didn't consider it all canon.

So by that metric, the Mandalorians, whom Filoni and Disney try to portray as the new heroic force after the Jedi lost their spot in the Sequels, have more blood on their hands than Papa Palpatine.

That also goes with comparing Filoni to Gilroy. Gilroy mentioned a few times checking other stuff and even Wookiepedia to confirm his lore, meanwhile Filoni just writes what he likes.

 

[Gurney Halleck]

Andor's Ghorman Massacre is well-done, but it's just a normal day for the Empire. Acting like this is somehow the worst thing the Empire did kind of forgets the fact that they enslaved the Wookiees, exterminated the Geonosians, bombed Mandalore into radioactive waffles, compared to that shit, Ghorman was just business as usual. That officer who triggered it stood calmly behind that glass door because to him, he's seen this before, he's done this before, and this would likely not be the last time. Hell, one could say that Ghorman was an exercise in Darwinism, since the old man rightfully pointed out that the Empire allowing protests in the plaza was obviously a trap, so everyone who walked in there should've known that there's a chance they weren't coming back.

Hell, I'd say it's about on par with generic IRL dictatorship shenanigans. More people probably got merked at Tiananmen Square or when Assad Sr. laid waste to Hama.

If it were me, the Ghorman Massacre would've been something I'd open with, and an even greater atrocity would be what I'd have made the season climax.

Should've been the original EU Ghorman Massacre with Tarkin deciding to use them as a landing pad, though that apparently still happened offscreen in Disney canon before.

 

[draggs]

Are they gonna show the Empire incinerating 80,000 losers on Rampa 1 and Rampa 2 with their starship engines because they wouldn't shut up and disperse their protests. That would be based

 

[Fig Kommandant]

Hell, I'd say it's about on par with generic IRL dictatorship shenanigans. More people probably got merked at Tiananmen Square

Should've been the original EU Ghorman Massacre with Tarkin deciding to use them as a landing pad

I've seen weird reactions to that online, Tiananmen was between 300 and 2.6k dead yet China is doing well. Meanwhile I've seen people online say that 500 dead from a Ghorman riot should have garnered a bigger rebel/republican response. Funny enough, I do agree that an officer choosing to land on innocent civilians has a bigger thematic effect than shooting rioters. Though that's less realistic, so it fits way less with Gilroy's style.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

So seen as Andor is coming to an end let's try guess the fate of the characters that remain from the show that most people will forget about in a week.

I'm betting Dedra will hang herself bc of Ghorman. Either that, or will die in a murder-suicide with Luthen.