Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Brain Problems]

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This has long ago been verified to as high a standard of proof as possible. The man responsible, Girkin is in prison, albeit for saying means words to the little dictator.

The fact that so many people forget Putins little gay green men and their insurgency in the East took down a fucking passenger plane and bragged about it drives me insane. What makes it vaguely funny is that Girkin was a good little boy who dindu nuffin and still ended up in the clink for the crime of not being totally delusional. Just mostly.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

It reminds me of reading about Polish Catholic "war hymns" against the Germans c. WWII -- who the fuck has "war hymns" past the Crusades?

Crusades are a lot more recent history in that part of the world due to the Ottomans. The Poles were fighting the Great Turkish War at the same time the Salem Witch Trials were happening here in the US.

And of course in WW2 they were fighting two enemies who were a lot more anti-Christian and hostile towards their people than the Muslims ever were. So it was another crusade in a sense.

 

[Snekposter]

It reminds me of reading about Polish Catholic "war hymns" against the Germans c. WWII -- who the fuck has "war hymns" past the Crusades? Onward, Christian Soldiers is the only one I ever learned, but it wasn't being applied in any literal sense contemporaneously.

Not familiar with the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

And yes, the Civil War was very much a sort of holy war given that evangelicalism and abolitionism were incredibly entwined. Harriet Beecher Stowe of Uncle Tom's Cabin fame came from a family where her father and all her brothers wound up being clergymen, for example. And they were all ardent abolitionists just like she was.

 

[Gambina Enthusiast]

Apparently the Estonians are trying to stop a Russian tanker in the Gulf of Finland, via the WarTranslated twitter account
Video below from the russian perspective

Edited because I phoneposted before writing the whole post

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Ukraine is breaking up their tank brigades and distributing the tanks across the force. [A]This aligns with their new use as direct fire support rather than break through vehicles. Return of the assault gun when? *Sad M10 Booker noises*

For the U.S. Army the biggest problem with the M10 Booker isn't the vehicle itself. But rather the U.S. Army not knowing which part of itself the M10 Booker is for. Paratroopers who want something airdroppable to replace the Sheridan. Airborne who want something that could be stuff two per cargo plane and unload after landing. Leg infantry who want something lighter than an Abrams that won't collapse the local infrastructure. Tanknet.org forum have following the M10 and been over going over these less discussed problems and most especially doctrine.
Link

 

[I'm a Silly]

Crusades are a lot more recent history in that part of the world due to the Ottomans. The Poles were fighting the Great Turkish War at the same time the Salem Witch Trials were happening here in the US.

Point taken, but still antiquated.

And of course in WW2 they were fighting two enemies who were a lot more anti-Christian and hostile towards their people than the Muslims ever were. So it was another crusade in a sense.

Citation needed.

 

[Snekposter]

For the U.S. Army the biggest problem with the M10 Booker isn't the vehicle itself. But rather the U.S. Army not knowing which part of itself the M10 Booker is for. Paratroopers who want something airdroppable to replace the Sheridan. Airborne who want something that could be stuff two per cargo plane and unload after landing. Leg infantry who want something lighter than an Abrams that won't collapse the local infrastructure. Tanknet.org forum have following the M10 and been over going over these less discussed problems and most especially doctrine.
Link

The Booker pretty much is an assault gun, TBH. Historically we've used light tanks a ton as infantry support since they can go places larger vehicles can't, require specialized weaponry to take out or disable that aren't as effective against its infantry escorts, and even if their cannons aren't the best against armored vehicles, they work quite fine against dug-in infantry in a direct fire role. Tankers absolutely hated the Sheridan because of its 30 second reload times and its near-uselessness when facing armored vehicles, but the infantry? As far as they were concerned anything that could drive up to the enemy's face and shove a six inch HE shell down their pie holes was a godsend.

Hell, the Marines absolutely adored the Ontos for the same reason. Yeah, it sucked ass against anything armored, but it was armored enough to stop MG rounds and those six recoilless rifles could take down an building front in a single salvo. North Vietnamese forces quickly learned to run like hell whenever one of those showed up.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Tankers absolutely hated the Sheridan because of its 30 second reload times and its near-uselessness when facing armored vehicles,

Takes time to safely remove the "elephant condoms" off of the rounds before they can be loaded into the breech. Sheridan did have HEAT rounds in addition to Shillelagh missiles for anti-tank defense. Since being an air droppable tank destroyer was their original reason for existing. By happenstance Sheridans never had to face off against any tank during its service.

Edit: Last time Sheridan were used as tank destroyers was in the opening stages of Desert Shield. As they were the first U.S. armor units to arrive in Saudi Arabia and serve the role until rest of the U.S. armor started arriving.

 

[Skylavijas]

Citation needed.

Soviet Union operated under state atheism that would turn churches into warehouses, barracks, or outright destroy them as seen here.

Germany's anti-Catholic laws can be dated back to Otto von Bismarck (so basically before the institution of unified Germany even existed), which included disbanding numerous religious orders and confiscating church property, which effected Polish majority areas the worst, as the Polish catholic church was the strongest advocate for Polish rights and independence as seen here.

By contrast, the Ottoman Empire was very liberal as once it took Constantinople, it's first instinct wasn't to dismantle the orthodox institutions, but to maintain them, even assigning Patriarchs that would help govern the country, as seen here. Of course, Ottoman history has a lot of instances where Christians were oppressed, but there wasn't the same systematic destruction of church institutions as with previous two examples.

But even all of that aside, Germany was majority protestant, USSR was majority Orthodox while Poland was majority Catholic. Both Prussia and tsarist Russia had a history of enforcing their own religious doctrine above native Polish ones. So regardless of how you cut the cake, military incursions from either of these countries was seen as an existential threat to Polish cultural and religious identity in a way the Ottomans simply never were. The Turks didn't partition the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was Russia, Prussia and... Austria... The same country they helped save.

 

[No. 7 cat]

The Turks didn't partition the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was Russia, Prussia and... Austria... The same country they helped save.

I think also the Sublime Porte was very slow to recognize the final partition of Poland.

 

[Übertroon]

The Turks didn't partition the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was Russia, Prussia and... Austria... The same country they helped save.

Well the Turks were the only ones protesting the partition as they feared how the shift in the balance of power in eastern europe would affect them negatively. As it did when Austria and Russia could focus more on the Ottoman front.
Poland-Lithuania was a barely functioning state when partioned anyway

 

[khaine]

What exactly is he playing at? Is he playing at anything?

getting his dick sucked by Russians. He loves it when people suck his dick. See the recent trip to the Middle East.

 

[I'm a Silly]

Soviet Union operated under state atheism that would turn churches into warehouses, barracks, or outright destroy them as seen here.

Germany's anti-Catholic laws can be dated back to Otto von Bismarck (so basically before the institution of unified Germany even existed), which included disbanding numerous religious orders and confiscating church property, which effected Polish majority areas the worst, as the Polish catholic church was the strongest advocate for Polish rights and independence as seen here.

By contrast, the Ottoman Empire was very liberal as once it took Constantinople, it's first instinct wasn't to dismantle the orthodox institutions, but to maintain them, even assigning Patriarchs that would help govern the country, as seen here. Of course, Ottoman history has a lot of instances where Christians were oppressed, but there wasn't the same systematic destruction of church institutions as with previous two examples.

Thanks, but I was quoting this, which didn't specify Catholicism, as you can see:

And of course in WW2 they were fighting two enemies who were a lot more anti-Christian and hostile towards their people than the Muslims ever were. So it was another crusade in a sense.

But even all of that aside, Germany was majority protestant, USSR was majority Orthodox while Poland was majority Catholic. Both Prussia and tsarist Russia had a history of enforcing their own religious doctrine above native Polish ones. So regardless of how you cut the cake, military incursions from either of these countries was seen as an existential threat to Polish cultural and religious identity in a way the Ottomans simply never were. The Turks didn't partition the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was Russia, Prussia and... Austria... The same country they helped save.

 

[Oxyjen]

WILL PUTIN SHOW UP IN ISTANBUL? Vote with stickers.

Yes
Yes, and progress towards peace will be achieved.
No
Yes, but as a stalling tactic. Will probably walk out and nothing will be achieved.
Russia will launch Ballistic missiles and Drones on Thursday as a final "Fuck you" to peace talks.

How are we doing.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

How are we doing.

Putin will not be attending, calling the Peace talks HE PROPOSED a sham.

 

[SBG]

Putin will not be attending, calling the Peace talks HE PROPOSED a sham.

And still no sign that Trump will follow through on his threats of secondary sanctions.

 

[ToEnsureVerification]

How are we doing.

Putin will not be attending, calling the Peace talks HE PROPOSED a sham.

As of writing, it's 10PM in Ukraine. Plenty of time for a repeat of a 2-4 AM Drone and missile chimp out.

 

[otherdispair]

So Pavel Gubarev, the Kremlins man in the Donesk, just said the quite part out loud.The russians have lost over a million killed.
So a month or two of casualties away from having as many russians killed as the US took as casualties during WWII and will over what the bongs took.
Now I'm sure that he doesn't have excess to the Kremlins private numbers. But as the top guy in the region where most of the combat is happening and most of the dead are being moved trough (or abandoned in). I do not think he's not going to be that far off.

Now that's just the dead. That means at least an other million and a half other casualties.
two and a half million casualties total, over 1.5% of the total russian population
750.000 casualties per year.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

So Pavel Gubarev, the Kremlins man in the Donesk, just said the quite part out loud.The russians have lost over a million killed.
So a month or two of casualties away from having as many russians killed as the US took as casualties during WWII and will over what the bongs took.
Now I'm sure that he doesn't have excess to the Kremlins private numbers. But as the top guy in the region where most of the combat is happening and most of the dead are being moved trough (or abandoned in). I do not think he's not going to be that far off.

Now that's just the dead. That means at least an other million and a half other casualties.
two and a half million casualties total, over 1.5% of the total russian population
750.000 casualties per year.

I would say a million casualties, including wounded and captured, may equate to a million.

 

[TJT]

Soviet Union operated under state atheism that would turn churches into warehouses, barracks, or outright destroy them as seen here.

From what I have read Lenin and the boys had a real hard on to destroy St. Basil's.

But calmer minds prevailed and somehow convinced the Soviet leadership that destroying irreplaceable cultural artifacts displaying centuries of Russian history was not that smart of an idea. It was a sheer stroke of luck though and how this went down is lost to history.